Global warming traps scientists in ice

[brenthutch 444]

No, I am using ice, in all its forms, as a proxy for temperature.

[kallend 2,106]

devildog

***I think we can all agree that pumping large amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere is not a good idea.

What large amounts? The increase is like adding a drop of food coloring to an olympic-sized swimming pool and then declaring the whole thing is about to turn bright red.

30 BILLION tons/year of human activity produced CO2 is enough to raise the CO2 content of the atmosphere by 25%. Which is pretty much exactly the measured increase.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

kallend

******I think we can all agree that pumping large amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere is not a good idea.

What large amounts? The increase is like adding a drop of food coloring to an olympic-sized swimming pool and then declaring the whole thing is about to turn bright red.

30 BILLION tons/year of human activity produced CO2 is enough to raise the CO2 content of the atmosphere by 25%. Which is pretty much exactly the measured increase.

And it has caused exactly nothing
And there is credible research that indicates much higher concentrations of CO2 in the past so it is nothing new

Next

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

brenthutch

If air conditioning is not an adaptation , please let me know what is.

a coping mechanism, just as a spacesuit is for a visit to the moon. What's the resident population of Death Valley? Or the Sahara?

Quote

I learned in kindergarten that Neolithic man (cavemen to you progressives) adapted to climates that ranged from the Arctic to the Saharan dessert. I am pretty sure that modern humans can do at least that well.

Caveman is a vague term - can refer to both home sapiens and neanderthals, and the latter did not handle the last ice age very well and died out. I again point out the fact that they're weren't 7 billion people living at the time, either, and the quality and longevity of life was markedly lower.

You keep missing this point. Life as defined as some humans persisting will certainly go on. Our life, the one where people like you would nearly commit suicide rather than drive a econobox of a car, not so likely to without considerable planning.

[brenthutch 444]

kelpdiver

***If air conditioning is not an adaptation , please let me know what is.

a coping mechanism, just as a spacesuit is for a visit to the moon. What's the resident population of Death Valley? Or the Sahara?

400+ and 2.5 million respectively.

[rushmc 23]

I have to admit I love watching lawrocket hand you your ass post after post

Quote

As we reported at the time, this caused BAS boffins to suggest that the observed accelerating ice flow and melt seen since the '90s was actually a result of the ridge's erosion and sea ingress, rather than global warming.

Now, the latest BAS research has revealed that rather than accelerating, "oceanic melting of the ice shelf into which the glacier flows decreased by 50 per cent between 2010 and 2012".

The BAS goes on to explain:


Observations made in January 2012, and reported now in [hefty boffinry mag] Science, show that ocean melting of the glacier was the lowest ever recorded. The top of the thermocline (the layer separating cold surface water and warm deep waters) was found to be about 250 metres deeper compared with any other year for which measurements exist.

This lowered thermocline reduces the amount of heat flowing over the ridge. High resolution simulations of the ocean circulation in the ice shelf cavity demonstrate that the ridge blocks the deepest ocean waters from reaching the thickest ice ...

In January 2012 the dramatic cooling of the ocean around the glacier is believed to be due to an increase in easterly winds caused by a strong La Ninã event in the tropical Pacific Ocean.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/03/antarctic_ice_shelf_melt_lowest_ever_recorded_just_not_much_affected_by_global_warming/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,106]

rushmc

*********I think we can all agree that pumping large amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere is not a good idea.

What large amounts? The increase is like adding a drop of food coloring to an olympic-sized swimming pool and then declaring the whole thing is about to turn bright red.

30 BILLION tons/year of human activity produced CO2 is enough to raise the CO2 content of the atmosphere by 25%. Which is pretty much exactly the measured increase.

And it has caused exactly nothing
And there is credible research that indicates much higher concentrations of CO2 in the past so it is nothing new

Next

Wilful stupidity.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

Projection on your part

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,106]

rushmc

I have to admit I love watching lawrocket hand you your ass post after post

Quote

As we reported at the time, this caused BAS boffins to suggest that the observed accelerating ice flow and melt seen since the '90s was actually a result of the ridge's erosion and sea ingress, rather than global warming.

Now, the latest BAS research has revealed that rather than accelerating, "oceanic melting of the ice shelf into which the glacier flows decreased by 50 per cent between 2010 and 2012".

The BAS goes on to explain:


Observations made in January 2012, and reported now in [hefty boffinry mag] Science, show that ocean melting of the glacier was the lowest ever recorded. The top of the thermocline (the layer separating cold surface water and warm deep waters) was found to be about 250 metres deeper compared with any other year for which measurements exist.

This lowered thermocline reduces the amount of heat flowing over the ridge. High resolution simulations of the ocean circulation in the ice shelf cavity demonstrate that the ridge blocks the deepest ocean waters from reaching the thickest ice ...

In January 2012 the dramatic cooling of the ocean around the glacier is believed to be due to an increase in easterly winds caused by a strong La Ninã event in the tropical Pacific Ocean.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/03/antarctic_ice_shelf_melt_lowest_ever_recorded_just_not_much_affected_by_global_warming/

Nice selective editing by The Register.

Here is the original article: www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2014/01/02/science.1244341.abstract?sid=b38e30ea-23a1-49f1-92fa-a807b49036a1

Notice that the melting hasn't stopped, it just slowed. It is still melting.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

Ice is either forming or melting. The scientists say that the ridge being ground off and other factors strongly suggest they were wrong blaming global warming. So, I posted the link to the total article. The editing is yours

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,106]

rushmc

Ice is either forming or melting. The scientists say that the ridge being ground off and other factors strongly suggest they were wrong blaming global warming. So, I posted the link to the total article. The editing is yours

Not only do you not understand what you read, you don't even know the meaning of "edit".

Posting a link to the original article is not editing.

Selectively cutting and pasting as The Register did, IS editing.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

Do you win as poorly as you loose?
Your favorite the ice is melting argument is melting much faster than the ice is

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[brenthutch 444]

To be fair to the professor, the ice jam does not disprove AGW anymore than Katrina or Sandy prove it. It is science by narrative, which clearly is not science. What made this particular episode so irresistible was that, for once, the shoe was on the other foot. The overwhelming irony and utter simplicity of the narrative overwhelmed all else. Of course real climate science is more nuanced, a lesson, I hope, that has been learned by the good professor and his comrades.

[kallend 2,106]

rushmc

Do you win as poorly as you loose?
Your favorite the ice is melting argument is melting much faster than the ice is

Even the edited article YOU posted states clearly that the ice is still melting (despite an attempt by the author to spin it), it is clear that you don't understand what you read.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

kallend

***Do you win as poorly as you loose?
Your favorite the ice is melting argument is melting much faster than the ice is

Even the edited article YOU posted states clearly that the ice is still melting (despite an attempt by the author to spin it), it is clear that you don't understand what you read.

What is clear John is your intellectual dishonesty regarding your religion
But, I guess you know better than the climate scientists that the article reports about

Ice melts John
When you can stop that let us know

Water also freezes and makes ice
I bet you think you can walk on it before it freezes too

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[brenthutch 444]

brenthutch

To be fair to the professor, the ice jam does not disprove AGW anymore than Katrina or Sandy prove it. It is science by narrative, which clearly is not science. What made this particular episode so irresistible was that, for once, the shoe was on the other foot. The overwhelming irony and utter simplicity of the narrative overwhelmed all else. Of course real climate science is more nuanced, a lesson, I hope, that has been learned by the good professor and his comrades.

Bump to Kallend

[kallend 2,106]

It is clear that you don't understand what you read.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,106]

brenthutch

***To be fair to the professor, the ice jam does not disprove AGW anymore than Katrina or Sandy prove it. It is science by narrative, which clearly is not science. What made this particular episode so irresistible was that, for once, the shoe was on the other foot. The overwhelming irony and utter simplicity of the narrative overwhelmed all else. Of course real climate science is more nuanced, a lesson, I hope, that has been learned by the good professor and his comrades.

Bump to Kallend

Got it, thanks.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[brenthutch 444]

From Charles Krauthammer
"Now, this inconvenient finding is not dispositive. It doesn’t mean there is no global warming. But it is something that the very complex global-warming models that Obama naïvely claims represent settled science have trouble explaining. It therefore highlights the president’s presumption in dismissing skeptics as flat-earth know-nothings.

On the contrary. It’s flat-earthers like Obama who refuse to acknowledge the problematic nature of contradictory data. It’s flat-earthers like Obama who cite a recent Alaskan heat wave — a freak event in one place at one time — as presumptive evidence of planetary climate change. It’s flat-earthers like Obama who cite perennial phenomena such as droughts as cosmic retribution for environmental sinfulness."

For the sake of argument, nonetheless, let’s concede that global warming is precisely what Obama thinks it is. Then answer this: What in God’s name is his massive new regulatory and spending program — which begins with a war on coal and ends with billions in more subsidies for new Solyndras — going to do about it?

The U.S. has already radically cut CO2 emissions — more than any country on earth since 2006, according to the International Energy Agency. Emissions today are back down to 1992 levels.

And yet, at the same time, global emissions have gone up. That’s because — surprise! — we don’t control the energy use of the other 96 percent of humankind.

At the heart of Obama’s program are EPA regulations that will make it impossible to open any new coal plant and will systematically shut down existing plants. “Politically, the White House is hesitant to say they’re having a war on coal,” explained one of Obama’s climate advisers. “On the other hand, a war on coal is exactly what’s needed.

Net effect: tens of thousands of jobs killed, entire states impoverished. This at a time of chronically and crushingly high unemployment, slow growth, jittery markets, and deep economic uncertainty.

But that’s not the worst of it. This massive self-sacrifice might be worthwhile if it did actually stop global warming and save the planet. What makes the whole idea nuts is that it won’t. This massive self-inflicted economic wound will have no effect on climate change."

[DanG 1]

Quote

Net effect: tens of thousands of jobs killed, entire states impoverished. This at a time of chronically and crushingly high unemployment, slow growth, jittery markets, and deep economic uncertainty.

So instead of the military-industrial complex, we have the coal-industrial complex.

- Dan G

[brenthutch 444]

DanG

Quote

Net effect: tens of thousands of jobs killed, entire states impoverished. This at a time of chronically and crushingly high unemployment, slow growth, jittery markets, and deep economic uncertainty.

So instead of the military-industrial complex, we have the coal-industrial complex.

I suppose you would prefer a "no industrial" complex.

[DanG 1]

Quote

I suppose you would prefer a "no industrial" complex.

Suppose all you want, just know you'd be wrong.

It's very fashionable to criticize the military industrial complex, but apparently it's okay to keep using coal for the sole reason that it supports jobs.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.

- Dan G

[brenthutch 444]

" but apparently it's okay to keep using coal for the sole reason that it supports jobs. "

Jobs and 44% of the electricity.

[davjohns 1]

I think the moniker "Global Warming" will go down in history as one of the great mistakes in marketing.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[ibx 2]

Quote

I think the moniker "Global Warming" will go down in history as one of the great mistakes in marketing.

I think the moniker "Average Global Warming Denial" will go down in history as another ideology, propagated by industry lobbyists and parroted by uneducated Americans.

There isn't actually much debate in the rest of the world.