Terry Schiavo family to help brain-dead Oakland Girl

[jclalor 12]

I was waiting to see how long this would take to turn political, I'm just waiting to hear now that she's a victim of an Obama "Death Panel".




http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/01/02/family-california-girl-declared-brain-dead-gets-help-from-terry-schiavo-family

[normiss 801]

She's a victim of ignorance.

[RonD1120 62]

What about medical science? Can't the socialist republic of California just make the final ruling and remove life support?

I'll admit I know nothing of the details of this case.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[FreefallingCari 0]

It is completely illogical to compare Terri Shiavo to Jahi. Mrs Shiavo was in a persistent vegetative state, Jahi is brain dead. As a side note, my own husband knows what I want, it is written in stone too.. He knows that I would not want to be kept alive if I was in a persistent vegetative state.

As a Nurse, I am compassionate, I feel terribly for the family. It really sucks when rare complications occur, we do our best to prevent these from occurring.

This poor girl is dead. We can keep her body alive for years, but that makes no sense. SHE is gone, her body is a shell. So sad.

This is another reason why healthcare costs continue to rise in this country. We literally keep dead people alive through expensive, 10,000-30,000 day life support treatments.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[jclalor 12]

FreefallingCari

It is completely illogical to compare Terri Shiavo to Jahi. Mrs Shiavo was in a persistent vegetative state, Jahi is brain dead. As a side note, my own husband knows what I want, it is written in stone too.. He knows that I would not want to be kept alive if I was in a persistent vegetative state.

As a Nurse, I am compassionate, I feel terribly for the family. It really sucks when rare complications occur, we do our best to prevent these from occurring.

This poor girl is dead. We can keep her body alive for years, but that makes no sense. SHE is gone, her body is a shell. So sad.

This is another reason why healthcare costs continue to rise in this country. We literally keep dead people alive through expensive, 10,000-30,000 day life support treatments.

Let's not be too hasty about turning off ventilators, it keeps me employed. I work in a children's sub acute and about half of our pt's are in a PVS. I'm convinced that when there's been a terrible accident involving children, and the doctors tell the the parents that there's no hope, 99% of parents make the right notice and let the child go, the other 1% says keep them alive at all cost and they end up at my facility.

While nothing was said at my work, our facility is the only one in the Bay area that would have been able to take Jahi, I'm guessing we wanted nothing to do with that.

[turtlespeed 221]

FreefallingCari

It is completely illogical to compare Terri Shiavo to Jahi. Mrs Shiavo was in a persistent vegetative state, Jahi is brain dead. As a side note, my own husband knows what I want, it is written in stone too.. He knows that I would not want to be kept alive if I was in a persistent vegetative state.

As a Nurse, I am compassionate, I feel terribly for the family. It really sucks when rare complications occur, we do our best to prevent these from occurring.

This poor girl is dead. We can keep her body alive for years, but that makes no sense. SHE is gone, her body is a shell. So sad.

This is another reason why healthcare costs continue to rise in this country. We literally keep dead people alive through expensive, 10,000-30,000 day life support treatments.

Does it REALLY . . . COST . . . 30K/day, or is that just what is billed?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[FreefallingCari 0]

May I ask what your profession is?

Jahi is not in a PVS. She has been declared brain dead. Many not within the healthcare field are not aware of the differences. A PVS is a disorder of actual consciousness. They are not 'aware' or conscious, but they can be aroused. Terri Shiavo was in a PVS. She was able to respond to painful stimuli, etc. A person in a PVS is affected by pain stimuli, though they are brain damaged.

There is no actual blood flow in the cerebellum at all within Jahi's, per medical reports which were online and reported on via the news.

I understand wanting a job, however, it does not make ethical or fiscal sense to keep a corpse alive for years on end. We can force a heart to beat for a long time, thanks to IV fluids and medications.

AND YES, healthcare costs an enormous amount money. Part of these inflated costs are due to situations like THIS. People visiting ER's for a cold or allergies, pregnancy tests, etc..

I feel terrible for this child, but keeping a dead body alive is not ethical, cost effective, or within the realm of reason.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[turtlespeed 221]

FreefallingCari

There is no actual blood flow in the cerebellum at all within Jahi's, per medical reports which were online and reported on via the news.

That is kinda unusual, don't you think?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 801]

Not once it's dragged into court and the public.

[jclalor 12]

FreefallingCari

May I ask what your profession is?

Jahi is not in a PVS. She has been declared brain dead. Many not within the healthcare field are not aware of the differences. A PVS is a disorder of actual consciousness. They are not 'aware' or conscious, but they can be aroused. Terri Shiavo was in a PVS. She was able to respond to painful stimuli, etc. A person in a PVS is affected by pain stimuli, though they are brain damaged.

There is no actual blood flow in the cerebellum at all within Jahi's, per medical reports which were online and reported on via the news.

I understand wanting a job, however, it does not make ethical or fiscal sense to keep a corpse alive for years on end. We can force a heart to beat for a long time, thanks to IV fluids and medications.

AND YES, healthcare costs an enormous amount money. Part of these inflated costs are due to situations like THIS. People visiting ER's for a cold or allergies, pregnancy tests, etc..

I feel terrible for this child, but keeping a dead body alive is not ethical, cost effective, or within the realm of reason.

I'm a nurse and a regular to SC, this make me uniquely qualified to know when someone is brain dead.

I know it's not ethical to keep a brain dead person "alive" it's not very ethical keeping a person alive who is in a PVS either, but we do it all the time, and it's the taxpayer who ends up paying because the private insurance maxes out after a year or two. we also send our vegetative kids to school because every child in California is entitled to an education.

I'm just joking about the taking the kids off the vent so I stay employed, most in a PVS are only trached and breath on their own anyways.

[normiss 801]

What about one with a valid death certificate?

[rehmwa 2]

jclalor

I was waiting to see how long this would take to turn political, I'm just waiting to hear now that she's a victim of an Obama "Death Panel".

looks like you did it in the opening post - nice job

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

The rules being what they are, the girl is pretty much worthless when she's in the ground. The big money for a lawyer is in making sure that she is kept going in the most expensive way possible for as long as possible. Let's assume $5 million per year in tubes, equipment, TPN and the massive costs for the inevitable c diff infection and that's mo money mo money mo money!

Find a center that will keep her there on a lien basis. Sue the hell out of the place and hope for something in the $50-$100 million range. The key is to make it as expensive as possible.

Yes, I hate my profession and hate myself at an ever-increasing rate. Dead kids are worthless. Live kids are worthless. The ones where there's argument over whether the kid is alive or dead? That's big money. A live brain without a functional body or a live body without a functional brain. That's a plaintiff's lawyer's wet dream.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jclalor 12]

lawrocket

The rules being what they are, the girl is pretty much worthless when she's in the ground. The big money for a lawyer is in making sure that she is kept going in the most expensive way possible for as long as possible. Let's assume $5 million per year in tubes, equipment, TPN and the massive costs for the inevitable c diff infection and that's mo money mo money mo money!

Find a center that will keep her there on a lien basis. Sue the hell out of the place and hope for something in the $50-$100 million range. The key is to make it as expensive as possible.

Yes, I hate my profession and hate myself at an ever-increasing rate. Dead kids are worthless. Live kids are worthless. The ones where there's argument over whether the kid is alive or dead? That's big money. A live brain without a functional body or a live body without a functional brain. That's a plaintiff's lawyer's wet dream.

The 5 million per year is way to the high side, we charge about $1000 per day for a child on a ventilator. The hospital did have a vested interest in her being dead, the cap on damages for the medically negligent death of a child in California is $250,000.

[normiss 801]

Given the reports that the child's grandmother suctioned and possibly created the massive hemorrhage....not sure how this one pans out in the suit.

[FreefallingCari 0]

Please do not hate your profession. People will need representation for something, be it a home buyer, or other needs, at some point in their lives. I thankful to have an awesome real estate attorney working on my new home, and back 10 years ago I was thankful to have someone on my side during a NASTY divorce.

ALL professions can have greed, or individuals that practice their craft without ethics or values for their fellow humans.

Unfortunately, this situation can easily be turned into a GOLD MINE. Someone will take it on, and whether or not they are truly in it for the money is between them and their conscience.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[FreefallingCari 0]

Actually, her being dead would allow for an autopsy. At this time any signs of foul play, or negligence, may be long gone.

As a Nurse, I have seen families try to act as "Nurse" for their loved ones. Suctioning is not rocket science, but it takes some critical thinking and knowledge of what one is doing.

I read that too, that family acted in some ways that may have caused harm.

This is a sad situation.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[jclalor 12]

normiss

Given the reports that the child's grandmother suctioned and possibly created the massive hemorrhage....not sure how this one pans out in the suit.

I heard they fed her a cheeseburger not too long after the surgery, obviously AMA.

It's also interesting that they didn't even give her TPN.

[wmw999 2,452]

He's spent too much time as a family lawyer. That would leave even Pollyanna depressed

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[FreefallingCari 0]

TPN post tonsillectomy, along with her other surgeries, is not common. Even though the extent of her surgery was fairly impressive, it did necessarily warrant TPN. It did warrant a special diet, likely a liquid diet, or even NPO for a period of time. She was obese, so it could have been medical decision that she would be able to thrive NPO with IV fluids for a short time post-op.
Some families see NPO as starving their family member, and I am no stranger to families feeding post op patients pizza and cheeseburgers.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[jclalor 12]

FreefallingCari

TPN post tonsillectomy, along with her other surgeries, is not common. Even though the extent of her surgery was fairly impressive, it did necessarily warrant TPN. It did warrant a special diet, likely a liquid diet, or even NPO for a period of time. She was obese, so it could have been medical decision that she would be able to thrive NPO with IV fluids for a short time post-op.
Some families see NPO as starving their family member, and I am no stranger to families feeding post op patients pizza and cheeseburgers.

I was meaning TPN once the court battle began.

[FreefallingCari 0]

This is going to sound snarky.. I mean it with sincerity.

Since the hospital has deemed her brain dead, I assume their stance would be that "We do not put TPN for brain dead individuals."

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[jclalor 12]

FreefallingCari

This is going to sound snarky.. I mean it with sincerity.

Since the hospital has deemed her brain dead, I assume their stance would be that "We do not put TPN for brain dead individuals."

I'm sure that was exactly their stance, and I somewhat agree with it. But playing the devils advocate, I think that to the general public they look somewhat uncaring. What was the difference in running some TPN for a week or two? I was surprised that was not even in the court order, they were either going to remove her from the vent or ship her to another facility anyways.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

I have to say it is interesting hearing your opinions from a medical caregiver POV, but it's a little frustrating having to look up all the abbreviations. I found TPN & NPO ok, but could you please put the technical stuff more in laymans terms?

I know jclalor is a nurse in a long-term care facility.
Do you mind expanding a little on what you do, Cari?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rickjump1 0]

lawrocket

The rules being what they are, the girl is pretty much worthless when she's in the ground. The big money for a lawyer is in making sure that she is kept going in the most expensive way possible for as long as possible. Let's assume $5 million per year in tubes, equipment, TPN and the massive costs for the inevitable c diff infection and that's mo money mo money mo money!

Find a center that will keep her there on a lien basis. Sue the hell out of the place and hope for something in the $50-$100 million range. The key is to make it as expensive as possible.

Yes, I hate my profession and hate myself at an ever-increasing rate. Dead kids are worthless. Live kids are worthless. The ones where there's argument over whether the kid is alive or dead? That's big money. A live brain without a functional body or a live body without a functional brain. That's a plaintiff's lawyer's wet dream.

"A live brain without a functional body or a live body without a functional brain. That's a plaintiff's lawyer's wet dream." Do you think she could beat Jerry Brown in an election? There's a lot of possibilities here if they won't let her rest in peace.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.