Obama care is a pain in the ass

[turtlespeed 221]

StreetScooby

Quote

...you're thrilled for the ACA because now you are more than happy to bend over and grab your ankles...

ROFLMAO!!!

And, he sounds HAPPY!!!

Whats not to like?

He's ecstatic that he no longer has to pay for a giant metal rods being shoved up his ass.

My insurance had that procedure covered. I paid 224/mo . . . now my insurance still covers it but I pay twice as much monthly and have 6 times the deductible.

All because even though I have had a vasectomy, I had to be covered for pregnancy.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 4]

kelpdiver

***
It's like going to a restaurant and them telling you they've changed their menu and now you get a free cup of soup when you order a salad. Well, you can't just get a free cup of soup, they aren't actually giving it away, you have to order the salad first.

if that colonoscopy results in someone not getting terminal cancer that costs hundreds of thousands to not cure, then that soup may end up being free after all.

Preventative medicine generally has a high ROI, not to mention keeping the patients in better health, which is the point of health care in the first place.

Oh, it's definitely a good deal over all. Prevention is far better than treatment. That said, neither is "free."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airdvr 210]

jclalor

I'm at the my doctor's yesterday for my yearly checkup when he gives me the news that every person wants to hear; since you're now 50, it's time for your first colonoscopy. I have had friends at my work who have had them before and they have had to pay our insurance deductible of $2000. The doctor told me that now, due to the ACA, I won't pay a penny due to it being preventative.

If I wasn't sold before, (witch I was) I am now, and so will millions of others.

Pretty big assumption that the folks who didn't have insurance will step up and buy this.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[base698 19]

I had surgery this morning. When I get off Vicodin I'll have stories for days.

[lawrocket 3]

kelpdiver

***
It's like going to a restaurant and them telling you they've changed their menu and now you get a free cup of soup when you order a salad. Well, you can't just get a free cup of soup, they aren't actually giving it away, you have to order the salad first.

if that colonoscopy results in someone not getting terminal cancer that costs hundreds of thousands to not cure, then that soup may end up being free after all.

Preventative medicine generally has a high ROI, not to mention keeping the patients in better health, which is the point of health care in the first place.

That's a good short term picture. But what if that person ends up with Alzheimers in 10 years and now costs more? It sucks to say this, but aren't costs merely being defrayed? Everybody eventually dies of some incurable condition.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[normiss 806]

It's also coded differently so as there is no co-pay, out of pocket, nor deductible involved.
Just being a covered procedure does not mean we don't pay anything.

It's that time of year too!

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Quote

That's a good short term picture. But what if that person ends up with Alzheimers in 10 years and now costs more? It sucks to say this, but aren't costs merely being defrayed? Everybody eventually dies of some incurable condition.

Isn't that an argument to never treat anybody for anything? It's also predicated on the assumption that the only value people have is economic.

We'd have a pretty bleak world if it ran on your values.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[RonD1120 62]

If the SC is representative of the entire country then, I have noticed that all those who supported BHO and his socialist healthcare are paying less for better or equal health insurance. All those who supported Romney and oppose socialism are paying higher premiums, lost their plan altogether and/or lost their physician.

I lost my plan and my premiums with another company increased $140/month.

The whole system should implode at election time. Well, I can only hope.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[normiss 806]

This is simply not true Ron.

I still don't support it, my plan didn't change.

I still think our government is forcing us to buy a commercial product, which is unconstitutional.
I also don't think it will work.
Like everything else the gooberment attempts.

[jclalor 12]

RonD1120

If the SC is representative of the entire country then, I have noticed that all those who supported BHO and his socialist healthcare are paying less for better or equal health insurance. All those who supported Romney and oppose socialism are paying higher premiums, lost their plan altogether and/or lost their physician.

I lost my plan and my premiums with another company increased $140/month.

The whole system should implode at election time. Well, I can only hope.

Of all the conspiracies I have heard, this one beats them all. You assert that the government, in conjunction with the healthcare industry, was able to ascertain the votes of a hundred million people and then rig thier health coverage based solely on whom they voted for?

Seriously?

[RonD1120 62]

normiss

This is simply not true Ron.

I still don't support it, my plan didn't change.

I still think our government is forcing us to buy a commercial product, which is unconstitutional.
I also don't think it will work.
Like everything else the gooberment attempts.

I've read your posts on the subject. You have a good plan with a good employer.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[muff528 3]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

That's a good short term picture. But what if that person ends up with Alzheimers in 10 years and now costs more? It sucks to say this, but aren't costs merely being defrayed? Everybody eventually dies of some incurable condition.

Isn't that an argument to never treat anybody for anything? It's also predicated on the assumption that the only value people have is economic.

We'd have a pretty bleak world if it ran on your values.

Don

Who says this is lawrocket's values? It simply looks like a "big-picture, down-the-road" glimpse of the "values" of the ACA. Death panels (in some form or other) will be necessary and are predictable. People will necessarily have only economic (and maybe political) value WRT the ACA. That's the only way it can be "affordable".

If anyone thinks that those in power who are using the IRS or the bridge traffic people to attack political enemies are scary, just wait till they start using the ACA as a weapon.

[normiss 806]

Agreed, that is a huge reason for my perspective.

I understand not everyone has the same perspective.
I'm still very concerned about my kids' situation.
They still can't afford the plans.

[RonD1120 62]

jclalor

***If the SC is representative of the entire country then, I have noticed that all those who supported BHO and his socialist healthcare are paying less for better or equal health insurance. All those who supported Romney and oppose socialism are paying higher premiums, lost their plan altogether and/or lost their physician.

I lost my plan and my premiums with another company increased $140/month.

The whole system should implode at election time. Well, I can only hope.

Of all the conspiracies I have heard, this one beats them all. You assert that the government, in conjunction with the healthcare industry, was able to ascertain the votes of a hundred million people and then rig thier health coverage based solely on whom they voted for?

Seriously?


Where would we be without our conspiracies?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jclalor 12]

muff528

***

Quote

That's a good short term picture. But what if that person ends up with Alzheimers in 10 years and now costs more? It sucks to say this, but aren't costs merely being defrayed? Everybody eventually dies of some incurable condition.

Isn't that an argument to never treat anybody for anything? It's also predicated on the assumption that the only value people have is economic.

We'd have a pretty bleak world if it ran on your values.

Don

Who says this is lawrocket's values? It simply looks like a "big-picture, down-the-road" glimpse of the "values" of the ACA. Death panels (in some form or other) will be necessary and are predictable. People will necessarily have only economic (and maybe political) value WRT the ACA. That's the only way it can be "affordable".

If anyone thinks that those in power who are using the IRS or the bridge traffic people to attack political enemies are scary, just wait till they start using the ACA as a weapon.

While "death panels " seem terrifying, they have, and always will exist. Should a 90 year old with end stage cancer get a heart and lung transplant? Private insurance and Medicare has been making these decisions for years, What's different now?

The right says out of one side of their mouth that big liberal government knows no limit to spending, at the same time saying Obama wants to deny your Grandmother care.

It makes no sense.

[kallend 2,027]

lawrocket

******
It's like going to a restaurant and them telling you they've changed their menu and now you get a free cup of soup when you order a salad. Well, you can't just get a free cup of soup, they aren't actually giving it away, you have to order the salad first.

if that colonoscopy results in someone not getting terminal cancer that costs hundreds of thousands to not cure, then that soup may end up being free after all.

Preventative medicine generally has a high ROI, not to mention keeping the patients in better health, which is the point of health care in the first place.

That's a good short term picture. But what if that person ends up with Alzheimers in 10 years and now costs more? It sucks to say this, but aren't costs merely being defrayed? Everybody eventually dies of some incurable condition.

But you have no idea just how expensive YOUR incurable condition will be, and what burden it will place on your loved ones.

Sharing risk is the whole point of insurance.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[muff528 3]

jclalor

....

While "death panels " seem terrifying, they have, and always will exist. Should a 90 year old with end stage cancer get a heart and lung transplant? Private insurance and Medicare has been making these decisions for years, What's different now?

The right says out of one side of their mouth that big liberal government knows no limit to spending, at the same time saying Obama wants to deny your Grandmother care.

It makes no sense.

The difference is that before the ACA, these decisions were made by insurance companies, doctors and patients/families with some consideration for the patient. After ACA, they will be made by government bureaucrats for the benefit of the ACA and the collective ...not the patient. The parameters for these end-of-treatment decisions will eventually become formulaic so no "person" can be held responsible for making these decisions. Just plug in age, diet, medical history, dangerous activities, bad habits, etc. Out pops the decision.

"Sorry, nothing can be done about it. The computer says 'no'. Let me refer you to a list of ACA-approved undertakers. Here's a nice printout of some lillies. Next!".

[jclalor 12]

Quote

The difference is that before the ACA, these decisions were made by insurance companies, doctors and patients/families with some consideration for the patient. After ACA, they will be made by government bureaucrats for the benefit of the ACA and the collective ...not the patient.

Decisions for whether some types of expensive medical care we're never made by the family, the doctor or the patient. These decisions were made by the insurance company or their appeals board.

Guess which way they leaned 99% of the time?

When you say "after ACA" what exactly do you mean? It's the law of the land right now, what proof do you have now that government bureaucrats are deciding whether individuals with private insurance receive treatment?

If your understanding of how healthcare was delivered in the past is so poor, how do you figure you can predict the future?

Here's an example of the only "death panels" that you're going to find:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Nataline_Sarkisyan

[airdvr 210]

Quote

Of all the conspiracies I have heard, this one beats them all. You assert that the government, in conjunction with the healthcare industry, was able to ascertain the votes of a hundred million people and then rig thier health coverage based solely on whom they voted for?

Seriously?

So you think it's beyond the realm of possible? Silly boy.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[muff528 3]

jclalor

Quote

The difference is that before the ACA, these decisions were made by insurance companies, doctors and patients/families with some consideration for the patient. After ACA, they will be made by government bureaucrats for the benefit of the ACA and the collective ...not the patient.

Decisions for whether some types of expensive medical care we're never made by the family, the doctor or the patient. These decisions were made by the insurance company or their appeals board.

Guess which way they leaned 99% of the time?

99% ??? Cite. If their decisions were based strictly on economic considerations, they need to be sued. The patient either was or was not covered for a given procedure or treatment. Experimental or non-standard treatments could be considered by a "life-panel" to evaluate whether a high-risk procedure might be a viable option (on a case-by-case basis). I am predicting that all (100%) of these decisions will be based on economic considerations in the future.

Quote

When you say "after ACA" what exactly do you mean? It's the law of the land right now, ...

All "insurance" plans (except those specifically and unlawfully exempted by Obama's decrees) are now required to comply with the provisions of the ACA, no matter how idiotic some of those provisions may be.

Quote

...what proof do you have now that government bureaucrats are deciding whether individuals with private insurance receive treatment?

If your understanding of how healthcare was delivered in the past is so poor, how do you figure you can predict the future?

I'm not predicting how healthcare will be delivered in the future. I'm predicting how bureaucrats will do their jobs. I have over 200 years of historical evidence of how their jobs evolve.

Quote

Here's an example of the only "death panels" that you're going to find:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Nataline_Sarkisyan

I'm assuming that you think this case would have had a different outcome after the ACA.

[turtlespeed 221]

jclalor

***If the SC is representative of the entire country then, I have noticed that all those who supported BHO and his socialist healthcare are paying less for better or equal health insurance. All those who supported Romney and oppose socialism are paying higher premiums, lost their plan altogether and/or lost their physician.

I lost my plan and my premiums with another company increased $140/month.

The whole system should implode at election time. Well, I can only hope.

Of all the conspiracies I have heard, this one beats them all. You assert that the government, in conjunction with the healthcare industry, was able to ascertain the votes of a hundred million people and then rig thier health coverage based solely on whom they voted for?

Seriously?

You, my friend, need a jump to conclusions mat.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PiLFy 3]

"You, my friend, need a jump to conclusions mat."

...

[kallend 2,027]

muff528

The difference is that before the ACA, these decisions were made by insurance companies, doctors and patients/families with some consideration for the patient. After ACA, they will be made by government bureaucrats .

WRONG. INCORRECT. FALSE.

You should check your facts BEFORE making an ass of yourself.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[muff528 3]

kallend

***

The difference is that before the ACA, these decisions were made by insurance companies, doctors and patients/families with some consideration for the patient. After ACA, they will be made by government bureaucrats .

WRONG. INCORRECT. FALSE.

You should check your facts BEFORE making an ass of yourself.

I can't be right or wrong yet. I'm only making a prediction.

[quade 4]

A prediction retroactive to 12 days ago?

ACA is already in effect therefore it's already "after" and your prediction hasn't come true.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver