Mass Acceptance Of Electric Cars Would Have Little Impact On US Emissions

[billvon 3,006]

>45,000 miles of interstate...where will we get the electricity?

Solar, wind, hydro, tidal, nuclear, natural gas peakers.

[billvon 3,006]

>I chuckle a bit when I hear you Teslaterians say you get the electricity for free.

I get mine for free. But if you want to pay whatever your utility demands, I support your right to do that.

[brenthutch 444]

So,your post has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. Got it.

[brenthutch 444]

billvon

>I chuckle a bit when I hear you Teslaterians say you get the electricity for free.

I get mine for free. But if you want to pay whatever your utility demands, I support your right to do that.

Wow, You have my attention now. I just sent a $783 check to my utility company (thanks to global warming induced cooling ). Just how do I get some of this "free" electricity?

[rehmwa 2]

brenthutch

Wow, You have my attention now. I just sent a $783 check to my utility company (thanks to global warming induced cooling ). Just how do I get some of this "free" electricity?

first, you fork out money for the solar panels. then you fork out the money for installation and the system.

now, some of this you get paid for by your neighbors - they paid taxes and you get the subsidy

also, you have maintenance


I think it's a great deal once the neighbors don't have to pay for part of it

(but it's not free, but it's likely a very smart investment for those that can use for a long enough period to get their money back on it)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[base698 19]

It costs under $4 to go 265 miles and free when you fill up at a Tesla station. It's much cheaper than gas per mile even if you compare it to a hybrid.

My argument is when they fix inefficiencies in their manufacturing process and have a robust super charger infrastructure. This would enable a cost compatible car and free maintenance. Why would you buy a car at the same price point that has to throw away $30k over the life of the car on gas with oil changes and breakable parts that electric vehicles don't have?

[kallend 2,027]

brenthutch

So,your post has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. Got it.

It was a response to an error in the description of properties of electric motors as traction devices, so it had everything to do with the thread.

You really have a hard time dealing with factual information.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[brenthutch 444]

Sorry, I misread
Again my apologies.

[billvon 3,006]

>Just how do I get some of this "free" electricity?

Buy a house with a solar power system on it.

[billvon 3,006]

>first, you fork out money for the solar panels. then you fork out the money for
>installation and the system.

Did that for my first system. When we bought our house three years ago it came with a system on it. That's happening more and more often here; almost 10% of San Diego homes now have solar on them.

[airdvr 210]

billvon

>Just how do I get some of this "free" electricity?

Buy a house with a solar power system on it.

Are you off the grid or just subsidizing?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[billvon 3,006]

>Are you off the grid or just subsidizing?

Both. I can drop the grid as needed (setting up to do this as a trial.) Most of the time I am grid tied.

[turtlespeed 221]

billvon

>I chuckle a bit when I hear you Teslaterians say you get the electricity for free.

I get mine for free. But if you want to pay whatever your utility demands, I support your right to do that.

How much exactly did it cost you to get it for free?

What was the upfront payment, and what is the maintenance cost of your free electricity?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kelpdiver 2]

base698

It costs under $4 to go 265 miles and free when you fill up at a Tesla station.

well, it's free if you've already written off the huge up front cost, yes.

I do that myself with wine - once purchased, it is 'free' to drink. But it's hard to miss the 3-4000/year expenditure. Or the 80-100k price for most of the Teslas. They are providing these 'free' charge stations to promote establish the brand. If successful, at some point those stations will likely cease to be free, or the cost will be added to the sales prices of the car (much as Amazon charges more for the cellular kindles versus wifi).

[billvon 3,006]

>How much exactly did it cost you to get it for free?

My current system? Nothing. Came with the house, which we also got for a screamin' deal.

>What was the upfront payment

Zero.

>and what is the maintenance cost of your free electricity?

Zero.

New systems, however, are now running around $4/watt installed.

[base698 19]

It's still a quarter of the cost of gas and less if you are paying for it yourself. They have a $30K version in the works. They can hit that price point even if batteries don't get cheaper.

Buying the Model S is not about saving money. Buying an EV in a few years may be.

[kelpdiver 2]

base698

It's still a quarter of the cost of gas and less if you are paying for it yourself. They have a $30K version in the works. They can hit that price point even if batteries don't get cheaper.

that is the hopeful outcome. But at that price, those charges won't be free. They'll be the $4. Which is hardly awful.

[turtlespeed 221]

billvon

>How much exactly did it cost you to get it for free?

My current system? Nothing. Came with the house, which we also got for a screamin' deal.

>What was the upfront payment

Zero.

>and what is the maintenance cost of your free electricity?

Zero.

New systems, however, are now running around $4/watt installed.

So even though it came "with the house", you don't think you paid for it?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,006]

>So even though it came "with the house", you don't think you paid for it?

Right. My additional cost for it was zero. The house was well below market.

OTOH, someone else might pay more for a house with solar. On average a seller in a decent market can get up to $20,000 more for a house with solar.

[turtlespeed 221]

billvon

>So even though it came "with the house", you don't think you paid for it?

Right. My additional cost for it was zero. The house was well below market.

OTOH, someone else might pay more for a house with solar. On average a seller in a decent market can get up to $20,000 more for a house with solar.

OK, so the paint on the house didn't cost anything either, it came with the house.

The roof didn't cost anything either.

I guess the street in front of my house didn't cost anything, it was there when I bought the house.

Everything costs something.
In order for it to be free to you, you would have had to have had someone do the supply and installation pro-bono.

Yeah, you may have gotten a good deal for the house, you can probably thank Madoff for that, but you paid something for the electrical system in your house, even if it wasn't a separate line item, or specific individual cost.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,006]

>Everything costs something.

You are looking for a rig. A guy at your DZ tries to sell you a Mirage with a Sabre 2 and a Cypres. "Only 3000! Perfect shape," he says. "But I'm gonna keep the Cypres for my next rig."

"No," you say.

"OK, then $2800. Please, I really need the money."

"No," you say.

"$2500 and that's my last offer."

"OK," you say.

"OK, great! That really helps me out. And you can keep the Cypres."

How much did the Cypres cost you?

[turtlespeed 221]

billvon

>Everything costs something.

You are looking for a rig. A guy at your DZ tries to sell you a Mirage with a Sabre 2 and a Cypres. "Only 3000! Perfect shape," he says. "But I'm gonna keep the Cypres for my next rig."

"No," you say.

"OK, then $2800. Please, I really need the money."

"No," you say.

"$2500 and that's my last offer."

"OK," you say.

"OK, great! That really helps me out. And you can keep the Cypres."

How much did the Cypres cost you?

So it happened like this to you?

You are looking for a house. A guy at your DZ tries to sell you a 4 bedroom, with a garage and a self supporting electrical system. "Only 300000! Perfect shape," he says. "But I'm gonna keep the solar panels and battery storage for my next house."

"No," you say.

"OK, then $280000. Please, I really need the money."

"No," you say.

"$250000 and that's my last offer."

"OK," you say.

"OK, great! That really helps me out. And you can keep the electrical system."

Interesting.

Well, Anyway . . . Assuming house size is 3200SF, and 4 Watts per Square foot . . . All that free electricity costs about $51,000 US to start.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,006]

>So it happened like this to you?

Similar. We backed out of the deal several times because we didn't need the house (was perfectly happy in our current house) and they were being jerks. At one point he said "well, if you won't pay X, we're going to remove the solar system." "OK," we said. We closed and they decided it was too much trouble to take it with them.

[turtlespeed 221]

billvon

>So it happened like this to you?

Similar. We backed out of the deal several times because we didn't need the house (was perfectly happy in our current house) and they were being jerks. At one point he said "well, if you won't pay X, we're going to remove the solar system." "OK," we said. We closed and they decided it was too much trouble to take it with them.

Good for you. Great negotiations.

The normal start up for a 3200 SF house is still about 50K.

If your bill is 300/mo. . . it would take you about 14 years to get ANY return on the investment.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,006]

>If your bill is 300/mo. . . it would take you about 14 years to get ANY return on
>the investment.

Pretty close. The numbers in the San Diego market are around 11 years payback for a large system without any incentives. Smaller systems have faster payback due to the tiered rate structure. (Down to about 3000 watts; below that costs go up again due to scaling issues.)