champu 1 #26 February 16, 2014 quade This "loud" teenager case isn't the only recent example. There is also the "movie theater texting" case. So what SYG essentially says is it's okay to pick random fights with strangers because if worse comes to worse, you can always just shoot them. As is evidenced by the fact that SYG has been used as a successful defense in both of your examples... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #27 February 16, 2014 champu ***This "loud" teenager case isn't the only recent example. There is also the "movie theater texting" case. So what SYG essentially says is it's okay to pick random fights with strangers because if worse comes to worse, you can always just shoot them. As is evidenced by the fact that SYG has been used as a successful defense in both of your examples... Doesn't have to be a "successful" defense as long as the perp thinks it's justification at the time he's pulling the trigger. THAT is the danger. As it turns out, an armed society isn't a polite society after all. It just means some jerk ends up shooting somebody during the fight.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #28 February 16, 2014 quade ******This "loud" teenager case isn't the only recent example. There is also the "movie theater texting" case. So what SYG essentially says is it's okay to pick random fights with strangers because if worse comes to worse, you can always just shoot them. As is evidenced by the fact that SYG has been used as a successful defense in both of your examples... Doesn't have to be a "successful" defense as long as the perp thinks it's justification at the time he's pulling the trigger. THAT is the danger. So wait, are people easily blinded by passion and prone to escalate conflicts or are they so cold and calculating that they're thinking about their legal defense strategy as they are shooting the person? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #29 February 16, 2014 champu *********This "loud" teenager case isn't the only recent example. There is also the "movie theater texting" case. So what SYG essentially says is it's okay to pick random fights with strangers because if worse comes to worse, you can always just shoot them. As is evidenced by the fact that SYG has been used as a successful defense in both of your examples... Doesn't have to be a "successful" defense as long as the perp thinks it's justification at the time he's pulling the trigger. THAT is the danger. So wait, are people easily blinded by passion and prone to escalate conflicts or are they so cold and calculating that they're thinking about their legal defense strategy as they are shooting the person? Both, but in the reverse order.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #30 February 16, 2014 champu *********This "loud" teenager case isn't the only recent example. There is also the "movie theater texting" case. So what SYG essentially says is it's okay to pick random fights with strangers because if worse comes to worse, you can always just shoot them. As is evidenced by the fact that SYG has been used as a successful defense in both of your examples... Doesn't have to be a "successful" defense as long as the perp thinks it's justification at the time he's pulling the trigger. THAT is the danger. So wait, are people easily blinded by passion and prone to escalate conflicts or are they so cold and calculating that they're thinking about their legal defense strategy as they are shooting the person? False dichotomy.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #31 February 16, 2014 kallend ************This "loud" teenager case isn't the only recent example. There is also the "movie theater texting" case. So what SYG essentially says is it's okay to pick random fights with strangers because if worse comes to worse, you can always just shoot them. As is evidenced by the fact that SYG has been used as a successful defense in both of your examples... Doesn't have to be a "successful" defense as long as the perp thinks it's justification at the time he's pulling the trigger. THAT is the danger. So wait, are people easily blinded by passion and prone to escalate conflicts or are they so cold and calculating that they're thinking about their legal defense strategy as they are shooting the person? False dichotomy. I'll concede that I knew quade didn't literally mean, "at the time he's pulling the trigger" and that I was giving him a hard time over it. My real concern is that CCW/LTC laws not be wrapped up with the theoretical allowances of SYG (whether there is case law to suggest such allowances are actually made) in an effort to just throw them all away together. That's the direction quade's arguments are going. SYG laws are a stupid idea and are also likely a long-term detriment to those who just want to own firearms and be left alone, and definitely to those who want to CC but still would correctly choose retreat as a first line of defense. Look how easy it was for people in this thread to see your post and come away with the impression that Dunn had gotten away with murder because of stand your ground. That didn't happen, of course, but it drums up that much more support for any law anyone comes up with that does anything to restrict guns further. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #32 February 18, 2014 quade***Is this the way it's supposed to work? Is this the intent of SYG? The guy with the gun always wins? From the proponents of the law, the NRA, yes. As usual, speak not of what you know not. His actions were appalling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #33 February 18, 2014 >humans as a whole are terribly flawed Very true and that is why there is always the potential for those who seek and achieve positions of power to abuse that power,and become unjust and tyrannical. Some people just seek to victimize those who are not as strong by hurting them face to face. These are just two reasons why we have the 2nd. SYG can not be used as a defense in this guys case since he was the aggressor. In the Zimmerman case evidence shows that Trayvon attacked him. You can't just turn and attack someone because they are following you by the way. This guy is going away for the rest of his life,which is getting off easy in my book. If the DA would have sought a 2nd degree instead of 1st degree murder conviction they would have had much better success in doing so it seems. Trying to prove premeditation seems to be far harder to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #34 February 18, 2014 D22369the lack of a manslaughter or murder charge makes no sense to me at all. he fired on a car load of people who were not an immediate threat to his life... killing one he instigated this confrontation! I am a "gun nut" I always carry concealed and own many different weapons but I cannot fathom any reason this should have ended in a shooting - he should pay for the life he took. Roy I believe that the jury (or at least one person on the jury) believed the kid that died did have a weapon that was disposed of before the cops got to the scene. Apparently there was some testimony that the kids in the car called some friends and family that showed up before the cops. The defense implied that the weapon was handed off to someone. During testimony the kids that were in the car said they "could not recall" who they had called after the shooting. Not defending anyone or claiming I know what happened. Just recounting what I heard on the local news.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #35 February 18, 2014 Even if someone had a gun in the car,this guy went back to his car and got his gun,and then went back to the other car,and then kept shooting even as the car was driving away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #36 February 18, 2014 toolboxEven if someone had a gun in the car,this guy went back to his car and got his gun,and then went back to the other car,and then kept shooting even as the car was driving away. No argument as to that. I'll simply note that lay jurors in very serious, high-profile cases, with lots of factual and legal nuances to digest and apply, and tremendous consequences no matter what the verdict, are under tremendous stress, and sometimes, especially as a team, they get overloaded like a computer going to Blue Screen of Death. The result can sometimes be odd verdicts, or hung juries, or both. Sorry if all I'm doing is stating the obvious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #37 February 18, 2014 No reason to be sorry at all. I've very little experience outside of traffic court,and have only been called to jury duty once for a non violence realated trial. You are well versed in the law where as I'm just an old logger/ heavy industry worker/skydive instructor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
