Duke law student defends her involvement in porn to pay tuition. Opinions?

[jakee 1,489]

davjohns

***

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I recall a court decision years ago that said 'moral' was a religious term and defined those things prohibited by god or God... Someone have a better definition?

One that isn't wrong?

OK. Put words to it.

I'm good, but I'm not going to solve a 4,000 year old debate in one afternoon.

Luckily all I have to do to show that you judge's opinion is wrong is to look up the etymology of the word.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[davjohns 1]

I'm not sure how much etymology weighs into the matter. Pretty sure we're talking about a current, viable definition. I don't have a better one. It seems you do not either.

So, the 4,000 year old debate goes on?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Southern_Man 0]

davjohns

Porn = prostitution as far as I can tell. Money in exchange for sex with strangers. I'm pretty sure some porn is done off camera and some prostitution is done with camera. Maybe the presence of the stage crew makes a difference? But I imagine some porn... who knows?

Well, it's parsing a lot, but in porn there is a third party paying both the actor and actress involved not one of them paying the other. I would guess that technically they are being paid for their acting ability and artistic merit and not to have sex per se (that is just part of the role they are playing).

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Porn = prostitution as far as I can tell. Money in exchange for sex with strangers. I'm pretty sure some porn is done off camera and some prostitution is done with camera. Maybe the presence of the stage crew makes a difference? But I imagine some porn... who knows?

dating = prostitution. You provide gifts, dinner, drinks and sometimes you get sex in return. The times you don't is the cost of doing business.

After that, for most men sex remains one side of a transaction. Behave like a good boy, keep your wife happy and hopefully she will grace you with a lay from time to time. (obviously no more blowjobs, there is a reason women smile walking down the aisle)

And this isn't aimed at you Dave, but this holier than thou attitude regarding prostitution (and porn) while most men spend their life bartering for sex, is tiring.

[quade 4]

davjohns

Immoral? I recall a court decision years ago that said 'moral' was a religious term and defined those things prohibited by god or God.

I call BS. Well, actually, I can see some small court judge saying something like that, but I have a difficult time believing that would stand in higher courts. It's almost certainly not the legal definition.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andy9o8 2]

davjohns

I recall a court decision years ago that said 'moral' was a religious term and defined those things prohibited by god or God. I'm actually pretty comfortable with that definition. It effectively leaves it up to individual discretion and outside the realm of law. Someone have a better definition?

I am not comfortable with that definition. In my mind, "morality" and "ethics" may or may not not be entirely identical, but they greatly overlap. Or, perhaps morality is a sub-set of ethics. But in any event, I think that metrics and considerations of both ethics and morality can exist entirely independently of any presumption of, or reference, to any form of deity, spirituality, superstition, etc.

Put another way, you can have very strongly-held personal and social standards re: honesty, sexual conduct, pair-bond fidelity - basically all the "10 Commandments"-type stuff - without any reference or belief whatsoever to religion or spirituality.

Because so many people's brains are hard-wired (whether from birth and/or the powerful and lasting effects of social indoctrination) to presume the existence of "spirituality" (etc., etc.,, in whatever form(s)...), there seems to exist a predisposed social bias to presume that the highest tenets of morality are necessarily religiously-derived; and that the logical corollary is that a complete lack of religious or spiritual beliefs connotes a comparative deficit of ethics or is a breeding ground for immorality. I think that's unfortunate.

[jakee 1,489]

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I'm not sure how much etymology weighs into the matter.

Well it's pretty basic. The concept of morality does not come from god or religious beliefs, just as it is not tied to god or religious beliefs now.

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Pretty sure we're talking about a current, viable definition. I don't have a better one.

Then you're not trying very hard. Try "The awareness of what is good and bad". It's not perfect but it's a damn sight better than "What god says".

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[PiLFy 3]

"Better not, that would be illegal. You need to be 18 to work in porn."

Quade is a progressive kinda guy. I'm sure he'd sign a waiver for her...

"And is your argument simply that it's immoral because parents wouldn't want their kids to do it? Because in that case a pretty high percentage of skydivers and BASE jumpers must be bad people."

You don't know what my arguments are against it. You also don't speak for 35,000 USPA members, plus however many BASE jumpers there are. IMO, that would constitute failed parenting, yes.

"Or is your argument just "Because I say so"? In which case my counter argument is simple: it's not immoral, and it's your problem if you're too obtuse to see that."

It's not my problem. I guarantee you I don't give a rat shit what you, or your entire family chooses to do. Post an incestuous, multi-generation gang bang of your family's next Thanksgiving dinner. I couldn't care less. There's plenty of sleazy peeps walkin around. I'll just add ya to the list.

[jakee 1,489]

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You don't know what my arguments are against it.

You said that you partially explained your opinion, and that was the explanation you gave. Are you now saying that you were lying?

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IMO, that would constitute failed parenting, yes.

You think that having a kid who skydives means you failed as a parent? You've chosen a tough crowd for that approach.

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I guarantee you I don't give a rat shit what you, or your entire family chooses to do.

Then why do you care what she does? Why are you, completely wrongly, wasting your time and energy condemning her for immoral behaviour?

In fact, why are you still wasting your time defending your decision not to fully explain your opinion when you said that it wasn't worth your time explaining your opinion?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[PiLFy 3]

"Are you now saying that you were lying?"

I never said any such thing.

"You think that having a kid who skydives means you failed as a parent?"

Read the post. Maybe you'll get it right the second time around... Try sounding out the words one at a time. It'll be less overwhelming that way.

"Then why do you care what she does? Why are you, completely wrongly, wasting your time and energy condemning her for immoral behaviour?

In fact, why are you still wasting your time defending your decision not to fully explain your opinion when you said that it wasn't worth your time explaining your opinion? "

I stated my opinion. I validated it enough to anyone w/half a clue, & no desire to be a pennnis... I'm not wasting my time hashing out a position to argue w/typical SC jackwagons. Go try your rants w/someone who gives a turd, Jakee.

[rehmwa 2]

grue

Belle Knox. I'd rate 6.5/10 or so.

ok - admit it. who did a google search?


(I think the fact that she's trying to pay her own way is a lot more moral than trying of forcing taxpayers to do it.

I'm also shocked that the usual suspects aren't all over this demanding that higher education should be "free"..((disclaimer - "free" being their normal twisted version of the word which has no relationship to the real meaning of the word)) )

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

davjohns

I'm not sure how much etymology weighs into the matter. Pretty sure we're talking about a current, viable definition. I don't have a better one. It seems you do not either.

So, the 4,000 year old debate goes on?

But the 4000 year old idea of smut does seem to radiate from the places deemed to be the most pious.... well at least on Sunday morning they do claim to be holier than the rest of us sinners... the rest of the week.. spank away.

However, using individual-level data from a Hitwise sample of ten million anonymized U.S. Internet users, Tancer (2008), finds that adult escort sites are more popular in “blue” states that voted for Gore in 2004 [we assume he meant Kerry? -ed.], while visitors from the “red” states that voted for Bush in 2004 are more likely to visit wife-swapping sites, adult webcams, and sites about voyeurism.

Ya just cain't make this stuff up

[davjohns 1]

I'm not seeing any real difference there. I think you just object to the idea of god being involved in it.

From my point of view, people place things on god that are really their own preferences and interpretations. Your definition only varies in that you don't blame the decision on god. It's still so very subjective, isn't it?

What one person sees as good and wholesome, another might see as pure evil. So, the word 'moral' doesn't mean much.

BTW...I'm pretty sure the court involved was the Louisiana Supreme Court. I like their definition because it places the idea back in the hands of theologists and philosophers. Since the meaning is so variable, I find that a good place for it.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Amazon 7]

davjohns

I'm not seeing any real difference there. I think you just object to the idea of god being involved in it.

From my point of view, people place things on god that are really their own preferences and interpretations. Your definition only varies in that you don't blame the decision on god. It's still so very subjective, isn't it?

What one person sees as good and wholesome, another might see as pure evil. So, the word 'moral' doesn't mean much.

BTW...I'm pretty sure the court involved was the Louisiana Supreme Court. I like their definition because it places the idea back in the hands of theologists and philosophers. Since the meaning is so variable, I find that a good place for it.

Or pure evil... in public with friends....

or Pure pleasure in the privacy of the spank the monkey room.

Seems there is a lot of that goin around.

[davjohns 1]

Exactly. No objectivity.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rehmwa

***Belle Knox. I'd rate 6.5/10 or so.

ok - admit it. who did a google search?


(I think the fact that she's trying to pay her own way is a lot more moral than trying of forcing taxpayers to do it.

I'm also shocked that the usual suspects aren't all over this demanding that higher education should be "free"..((disclaimer - "free" being their normal twisted version of the word which has no relationship to the real meaning of the word)) )

Better education builds a better society and reduces poverty. I believe government should be in the business of providing affordable education, ie a more European model.

Yes I understand that makes me a red commie bastard in the eyes of many Americans. Ironically, that proves my point.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I'm also shocked that the usual suspects aren't all over this demanding that higher education should be "free"..((disclaimer - "free" being their normal twisted version of the word which has no relationship to the real meaning of the word)) )

Our military, police, firefighting, air traffic controllers and pothole-filling are currently "free", K-12 public schools are currently "free"; so what's the inherent Red Menace evil in suggesting that the public funds currently allocated toward public school education be extended to no-tuition, publicly-funded 4-year degree programs, existing along-side the university educations that charge tuition? I'd much rather donate an extra $100 toward your kids' education than toward the profits of McDonnell Douglas or Halliburton any day of the week. The Pie will always be there; it's just a question of how large it will be, and where the slices go. Are people who favor large allocations of The Pie toward a strong military Communists because the slice comes from public funds?

"Usual suspects"? Really, Bill? I don't see how that kind of broad-brush demonizing advances a serious discussion.

[rehmwa 2]

Andy9o8

"Usual suspects"? Really, Bill? I don't see how that kind of broad-brush demonizing advances a serious discussion.

just practicing - it's all tongue in cheek

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andy9o8 2]

Don't you dare minimize my rant.

[grue 1]

SkyDekker

Better education builds a better society and reduces poverty. I believe government should be in the business of providing affordable education, ie a more European model.

Yes I understand that makes me a red commie bastard in the eyes of many Americans. Ironically, that proves my point.

While I disagree with your view I can at least understand it. What I don't understand are the people who think everyone needs a university education.

cavete terrae.

[jakee 1,489]

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I never said any such thing.

Either you've explained or you haven't. If you have explained, you can't say i have no idea what your opinion is. If you say I have no idea what your opinion is, you concede that you haven't explained.

Pick one.

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Read the post. Maybe you'll get it right the second time around... Try sounding out the words one at a time. It'll be less overwhelming that way.

You don't know what my arguments are against it. You also don't speak for 35,000 USPA members, plus however many BASE jumpers there are. IMO, that would constitute failed parenting, yes.

So what constitutes failed parenting? Attempting to speak for 35,000 USPA members? Since I never asked you what constituted failed parenting I can only attempt to interpret your statement in the context it is in. If your comment about parenting had nothing to do with skydiving then you need to learn how to construct a coherent paragraph.

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I stated my opinion. I validated it enough to anyone w/half a clue, & no desire to be a pennnis... I'm not wasting my time hashing out a position to argue w/typical SC jackwagons. Go try your rants w/someone who gives a turd, Jakee.

Validated to anyone who has half a clue? So far I count at least six people who've questioned why you hold your opinion and zero people who agree that you've explained it.

And you're still spending far more time and effort explaining that you're not going to waste time explaining your position than than it would have taken to explain your position in the first place.

I guess you just really like ranting.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

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I'm not seeing any real difference there.

Why not?

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I think you just object to the idea of god being involved in it.

Because it has no basis in reality, yeah. You might as well say that morality is what the fairies tell you to do.

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From my point of view, people place things on god that are really their own preferences and interpretations. Your definition only varies in that you don't blame the decision on god. It's still so very subjective, isn't it?

So your interpretation of the judge's interpretation is that 'moral' means absolutely nothing at all?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

grue

***
Better education builds a better society and reduces poverty. I believe government should be in the business of providing affordable education, ie a more European model.

Yes I understand that makes me a red commie bastard in the eyes of many Americans. Ironically, that proves my point.

While I disagree with your view I can at least understand it. What I don't understand are the people who think everyone needs a university education.

I agree that not everybody needs a university education. We need our tradespeople, we need cops and garbagemen etc.

But society benefits from a good base education. I find that North America absolutely fails at that.

[Amazon 7]

SkyDekker

******Belle Knox. I'd rate 6.5/10 or so.

ok - admit it. who did a google search?


(I think the fact that she's trying to pay her own way is a lot more moral than trying of forcing taxpayers to do it.

I'm also shocked that the usual suspects aren't all over this demanding that higher education should be "free"..((disclaimer - "free" being their normal twisted version of the word which has no relationship to the real meaning of the word)) )

Better education builds a better society and reduces poverty. I believe government should be in the business of providing affordable education, ie a more European model.

Yes I understand that makes me a red commie bastard in the eyes of many Americans. Ironically, that proves my point.

The problem that I deal with every day is the fact that most countries in the world provide their best and brightest with an education that allows them to compete in a job market that has finite jobs. 3/4 of my team are from elsewhere with the largest percentage from Asia. They are VERY well educated and are driven to succeed.

Our best and brightest are defined differently.... only those whose family can afford to send them to the best and brightest schools ( and the young students are NOT the best or the brightest) The true best and brightest, IF they can even get in past the legacys and fully funded, end up as slaves to a staggering debt for which many will be saddled with for life... AKA wage slavery since many can not get the most desirable jobs.

[normiss 800]

Google hell, her Twitter is quite nice.