Feds lay siege to Nevada ranch

[Amazon 7]

masterrig

***Or, here's another idea...

He can stop mooching and pay his bills.

What you're asking for is like a tenant who is 20 years in arrears on his rent to be "forgiven" for no damn good reason.

Like I said, it was just a thought! What's the difference in 'forgiving' him his debt and 'forgiving' MILLIONS' of illegal aliens for 'stealing' citizenship in this country? Hmmmmmm...?


Chuck

Perhaps you could do a séance... and ask Saint Ronald the RayGun....

[masterrig 1]

Amazon

******Or, here's another idea...

He can stop mooching and pay his bills.

What you're asking for is like a tenant who is 20 years in arrears on his rent to be "forgiven" for no damn good reason.

Like I said, it was just a thought! What's the difference in 'forgiving' him his debt and 'forgiving' MILLIONS' of illegal aliens for 'stealing' citizenship in this country? Hmmmmmm...?


Chuck

Perhaps you could do a séance... and ask Saint Ronald the RayGun....




Chuck

[kelpdiver 2]

masterrig

Since he is the only one grazing cattle on a portion of BLM land and his family has grazed cattle on that land for way long before the existence of the BLM, why couldn't the BLM reach-out an olive branch and 'grandfather' the ranch (rancher). In the grand scheme of things, it isn't that big of a piece of land and it would show the BLM really does have a heart.

The message it sends that if you just ignore the BLM or the EPA or some other government agency and then make a fess in the press, you can avoid spending over a million dollars. What could possibly be the second order consequence of this?

[toolbox 0]

The real reason that the BLM wants the rancher off the land is not to protect turtles.
A certain US senator from nevada and his son want the rancher gone because they are in business with a chinese energy company,and are pushing for a chinese owned solar farm to be built on the land,and they are using the turtle excuse and the BLM as a lever to get this done.
If they get the rancher out of there,then the bulldozers will come in and construction of the solar farm will begin.
I bet bulldozers are a lot more harmful to turtles and habitat than a few hundred cows.

[masterrig 1]

toolbox

The real reason that the BLM wants the rancher off the land is not to protect turtles.
A certain US senator from nevada and his son want the rancher gone because they are in business with a chinese energy company,and are pushing for a chinese owned solar farm to be built on the land,and they are using the turtle excuse and the BLM as a lever to get this done.
If they get the rancher out of there,then the bulldozers will come in and construction of the solar farm will begin.
I bet bulldozers are a lot more harmful to turtles and habitat than a few hundred cows.

Anything like this?

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/wind-farms-can-kill-eagles-without-penalty-f2D11702834

I guess, it's ok because it's 'green'?


Chuck

[Amazon 7]

toolbox

The real reason that the BLM wants the rancher off the land is not to protect turtles.
A certain US senator from nevada and his son want the rancher gone because they are in business with a chinese energy company,and are pushing for a chinese owned solar farm to be built on the land,and they are using the turtle excuse and the BLM as a lever to get this done.
If they get the rancher out of there,then the bulldozers will come in and construction of the solar farm will begin.
I bet bulldozers are a lot more harmful to turtles and habitat than a few hundred cows.

Another phallacy.. not even the same property regardless of what you have read on the right wing internets.

Even the Holy of Holies... The Blaze retracted based on the fact that ENN ( those stinkin ChiComs) pulled out of that deal quite a while back.

Now if we could get Beck to actually pull something else out...

[masterrig 1]

kelpdiver

*** Since he is the only one grazing cattle on a portion of BLM land and his family has grazed cattle on that land for way long before the existence of the BLM, why couldn't the BLM reach-out an olive branch and 'grandfather' the ranch (rancher). In the grand scheme of things, it isn't that big of a piece of land and it would show the BLM really does have a heart.

The message it sends that if you just ignore the BLM or the EPA or some other government agency and then make a fess in the press, you can avoid spending over a million dollars. What could possibly be the second order consequence of this?

Then they need to get a warrant for 'failure to pay' or 'theft of service' or something and throw his ass in jail and throw away the key. Something they probably should've done 20 yrs. ago and the BLM could've saved a lot of face.


Chuck

[Boomerdog 0]

Quote

Yep. We should ignore the law and let thugs take whatever they want.

OK..who are the thugs here?

What if Gandhi had NOT ignored the law? Martin Luther King? Rosa Parks? Had Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton et.al. NOT told HRH George III to shove it where the moon don't shine, things would be different. But let some cowboy tell the government to shove it and a chorus cries out that he ought to hung and left there for all to see what happens when you cross the US Government. After all, he's just some hick redneck dumb ass cowboy.

Bundy may or may not be wrong but he just might have a case worth hearing and I'm not one who believes this case has been fully heard. In the meantime, what has happened ought to shock the the hell out of everyone here whether we agree or disagree on the merits of this case.

WHERE is the hard core scientific data and other evidence that the desert tortoise is endangered and/or further endangered by the cattle? Cattle have been grazing on that land long before the Endangered Species Act became law and it appears the turtles were doing quite well thank you.

So a "hick cowboy" gives the finger to the Feds and how do they respond? They come in like a bunch of Spec Ops wannabes in their paramilitary garb, automatic weapons and snipers hidden in position and one of them has the temerity to tell one of the demonstrators that "We're here to keep you safe!" Good gawd give me break on that one. Law Enforcement Officers were once called "Peace Officers" but that day is long gone. Damn near every government agency has by law an enforcement mandate now has their own paramilitary SWAT team. Instead of taking from the Sub-Tzu principle that "to win without fighting is best," these clowns show up ready to fight before they even think about having a mature discussion with the very people they are supposed to serve and in the words of Alexander Hamilton to a British Envoy nearly two centuries ago, "Here sir, the people rule."
Having served in the military myself, I find it a personal affront and insult that the police find it necessary to dress themselves up like the military. Like I said, they should be peace officers NOT a bunch thugs having wild assed fantasies about being in Seal Team 6.

What should be further alarming is that there are compelling rumors worth follow up that amongst the law enforcement were contractors augmenting the police force and they were armed. Huh? Blackwater et al is questionable as it is in the international arena, I sure as hell don't want contractors raising weapons against American citizens and I don't think anyone here with any position would want the same.

The BLM folded when a whole bunch of armed citizens showed up. and they were ready to have a gunfight if it came to that. The BLM folded like a house of cards. The Spec Ops wannabes fled like a bunch of cowardly pussies. If those clowns with the badges were true warriors they would not have run like the bullies that they are. They retreated under the excuse that they'll let the courts decide the matter. The case should have stayed in the courts in the first place.

It is obvious from the unscientific poll at the beginning of this thread that there is some significant division in this matter. But in the short time I've had the privilege to be in the skydiving community, there is low tolerance for bullshit and a high commitment to do what is right...after all doing what we know is right can save our lives. As a people, we deserve from our government, a rational tempered response that enforces the law without making such a scene. We should demand it; but somewhere we lost our nerve to tell the government,"this far and no more!" If they can do it to some knuckle dragging cowboy, they'll do it to anyone here.

[wan2doit 6]

I thoroughly agree with the post I am replying to.

The Feds are the thugs in my book(NPS,BLM and the like) based on personal experience with assault weapon carrying rangers with body armor supposedly roaming the Everglades Big Cypress protecting a place hardly anyone goes to anymore due their presence.
I have also heard of many problems due to the Feds near Kane County Utah having to do with a handful of ATV enthusiasts being banned from old settler routes along seasonal dry river beds (e.g. Pariah Creek or River) due to the endangered species de jour.

The same name keeps popping up there Harry Reid attempting to have ranch waters diverted to more urban areas such as Vegas so his fat cat friends can develop more once they get the water out of the aquifers.

Sooner or later all this will come to a violent head. I am surprised it hasn't happened yet although it sort of did at Ruby Ridge and/or the Koresh compound.

Sad but True

[billvon 2,989]

>What if Gandhi had NOT ignored the law? Martin Luther King? Rosa Parks? Had
>Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton et.al. NOT told HRH George III to shove
>it where the moon don't shine, things would be different.

Yep. And if you are going to compare any of those people to a rancher who doesn't want to pay grazing fees . . . . it's not worth having any further discussion with you.

[toolbox 0]

Another phallacy.. not even the same property regardless of what you have read on the right wing internets

I do not read or visit right wing websites anymore than I do left wing websites.
I am neither republican or democrat.
I think both sides are corrupt,but I must say that the democrats strike me as even more untrustworthy.
The republicans ideology has not changed much over the years when compared to the democrats ideology which has changed vastly since the mid sixties.
The republicans were the party that voted to abolish slavery,demanded equal rights for all,demanded voters rights for all,were pro womens rights.
The democrats were pro slavery,pro segregation,against civil rights for all,against voters rights for all,against womens rights,and supported the KKK.
So I do not buy the democrats champion for the people bullshit anymore than I believe the republicans have the average citizens best interest at heart.
Sending armed government agents out to bully some cowboys just smells bad,and I'm not buying the turtle bullshit that the BLM is touting at all.
It is also well known that a certain democratic senator from nevada has family members who are lobbyist for private special interest groups,and they lobby him.
Sounds real shady to me.
So if this rancher just owes a million in grazing fees[which I've seen no proof of] why send an army out to steal his cows and intimidate his family like this?

[masterrig 1]

billvon

>What if Gandhi had NOT ignored the law? Martin Luther King? Rosa Parks? Had
>Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton et.al. NOT told HRH George III to shove
>it where the moon don't shine, things would be different.

Yep. And if you are going to compare any of those people to a rancher who doesn't want to pay grazing fees . . . . it's not worth having any further discussion with you.

What about those Bostonians who didn't want to pay that tea tax?

I heard today, that little soiree to take his cattle, thrown by the BLM cost in excess of $900,000.00 paid for by us taxpayers.


Chuck

[quade 4]

masterrig

I heard today, that little soiree to take his cattle, thrown by the BLM cost in excess of $900,000.00 paid for by us taxpayers.

I heard there are UFOs in Area 51. Doesn't mean it's true.

Gotta source for that, because that doesn't pass the sniff test by a fairly wide margin unless them boys over at the BLM are getting paid a whole heaping lot more than I am.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jtiflyer 0]

masterrig

***The real reason that the BLM wants the rancher off the land is not to protect turtles.
A certain US senator from nevada and his son want the rancher gone because they are in business with a chinese energy company,and are pushing for a chinese owned solar farm to be built on the land,and they are using the turtle excuse and the BLM as a lever to get this done.
If they get the rancher out of there,then the bulldozers will come in and construction of the solar farm will begin.
I bet bulldozers are a lot more harmful to turtles and habitat than a few hundred cows.

Anything like this?

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/wind-farms-can-kill-eagles-without-penalty-f2D11702834

I guess, it's ok because it's 'green'?


Chuck

Here is a great explanation with sources to back up claims

http://freedominfonet.net/truth-blm-bundy-ranch-dispute-explained/

eta: Hard to trust any government agency whose only oversight is the POTUS.

[quade 4]

And by "great" you mean a web site that doesn't seem to work properly? Dafuq is up with that page?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jtiflyer 0]

works fine for me

[quade 4]

Here's what it looks like to me.

I dunno. I see that and can't really think they have their shit together on their articles.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[zoobrothertom 5]

Rick

***Hi, jclalor.

Not picking on you but wanted to explore the phrase below.

It looks like Bundy is spitting in the eyes of all the ranchers who pay their grazing fees.

Some of the folks commenting may have missed a bit of the history.

There were over 50 ranches grazing on this land before it became BLM land. Now there is only one ranch remaining.

Did we miss something here.....? Is there a correlation between BLM management and those missing ranchers? Millions in fees to protect a turtle from cattle? 150 years of ranching destroyed how? Heavy handed tactics or a true interest in maintaining harmony? The rancher in question paid for years and then stops? Maybe because the fees collected weren't being used on the land grazed? Other reasons?

Just wondering ....

I don't see what difference it makes where the fees are being used. If you stop paying rent you don't get to use the facilities anymore.

Umm... That's it? No comment on the questions posed? Just pay to play?

____________________________________
I'm back in the USA!!

[masterrig 1]

quade

***I heard today, that little soiree to take his cattle, thrown by the BLM cost in excess of $900,000.00 paid for by us taxpayers.

I heard there are UFOs in Area 51. Doesn't mean it's true.

Gotta source for that, because that doesn't pass the sniff test by a fairly wide margin unless them boys over at the BLM are getting paid a whole heaping lot more than I am.

Fair enough... I heard it on the news on the radio. I'll find it in print and get back to you... how's that?


Chuck

[normiss 798]

A simple Google turns up this:

$3mil?

Believe what you will.

Total cost over the 20 years?

[quade 4]

normiss

Believe what you will.

I believe the Vladimir Putin sponsored RT quoting a figure by the far right whack-a-doodle "Free Beacon" and Sun Myung Moon owned "Washington Times" isn't exactly a credible source.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[masterrig 1]

jtiflyer

******The real reason that the BLM wants the rancher off the land is not to protect turtles.
A certain US senator from nevada and his son want the rancher gone because they are in business with a chinese energy company,and are pushing for a chinese owned solar farm to be built on the land,and they are using the turtle excuse and the BLM as a lever to get this done.
If they get the rancher out of there,then the bulldozers will come in and construction of the solar farm will begin.
I bet bulldozers are a lot more harmful to turtles and habitat than a few hundred cows.

Anything like this?

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/wind-farms-can-kill-eagles-without-penalty-f2D11702834

I guess, it's ok because it's 'green'?


Chuck

Here is a great explanation with sources to back up claims

http://freedominfonet.net/truth-blm-bundy-ranch-dispute-explained/

eta: Hard to trust any government agency whose only oversight is the POTUS.

Well, that was truly informative! I appreciate your posting that.


Chuck

[billvon 2,989]

>I heard today, that little soiree to take his cattle, thrown by the BLM cost in
>excess of $900,000.00 paid for by us taxpayers.

Still cheaper than the over 1 million in grazing fees he owes (which of course is adding to the amount we all have to pay.)

So to all the people who were cheering this scofflaw on - congratulations, another million or so in debt.

[masterrig 1]

normiss

A simple Google turns up this:

$3mil?

Believe what you will.

Total cost over the 20 years?

Where the hell did you find that? Thanks, Bud! I was having a heckuva time searching for that and got nowhere.


Chuck

[Amazon 7]

toolbox

Another phallacy.. not even the same property regardless of what you have read on the right wing internets

I do not read or visit right wing websites anymore than I do left wing websites.
I am neither republican or democrat.
I think both sides are corrupt,but I must say that the democrats strike me as even more untrustworthy.
The republicans ideology has not changed much over the years when compared to the democrats ideology which has changed vastly since the mid sixties.
The republicans were the party that voted to abolish slavery,demanded equal rights for all,demanded voters rights for all,were pro womens rights.
The democrats were pro slavery,pro segregation,against civil rights for all,against voters rights for all,against womens rights,and supported the KKK.
So I do not buy the democrats champion for the people bullshit anymore than I believe the republicans have the average citizens best interest at heart.
Sending armed government agents out to bully some cowboys just smells bad,and I'm not buying the turtle bullshit that the BLM is touting at all.
It is also well known that a certain democratic senator from nevada has family members who are lobbyist for private special interest groups,and they lobby him.
Sounds real shady to me.
So if this rancher just owes a million in grazing fees[which I've seen no proof of] why send an army out to steal his cows and intimidate his family like this?

Well if you are going to quote phallacies about a deal like that with ENN and the Chicoms...well.. facts would be nice.. and not the hundreds of sites with stupidity about yet another falsehood.


WOW.. there is some revisionist history there. The Republican Party has changed drastically since all the Blue Dog Racists left the Democratic Party you seem to think is still the one with all the KKK. Sorry but those good ole boys ran like hell to the "southern Strategy" of Nixon. Them folks were not goin to be in no party with N@#@# lovin Johnson.
I lived thru that era in the South... with family that epitomized the Blue Dogs.