Feds lay siege to Nevada ranch

[billvon 2,989]

>Isn't he that guy that owes like $1.3 Million in back taxes and DIDN'T have his
>house surrounded by snipers?

He's also the guy who didn't threaten to shoot cops.

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

>Isn't he that guy that owes like $1.3 Million in back taxes and DIDN'T have his
>house surrounded by snipers?

He's also the guy who didn't threaten to shoot cops.

nope - just jews and women and members of specific races

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[normiss 798]

I don't believe the rancher did that either did he?

[billvon 2,989]

"They have my cattle and now they have one of my boys. Range War begins tomorrow."

From his supporters on site - "We provide armed response. We need guns to protect ourselves from the tyrannical government.”

[normiss 798]

So no, like I thought.

[kallend 2,026]

It's fascinating that the same folks that despise poor and indigent welfare recipients also strongly support welfare corporations and welfare ranchers.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

kallend

It's fascinating that the same folks that despise poor and indigent welfare recipients also strongly support welfare corporations and welfare ranchers.

it's fascinating when people that don't like either are accused of being one sided by those that are one sided the other way

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[masterrig 1]

kallend

It's fascinating that the same folks that despise poor and indigent welfare recipients also strongly support welfare corporations and welfare ranchers.

Who said the rancher was on welfare? Tell me, how many ranchers do you know who are on welfare! Besides, you do like a good steak, don't you? Well, that cow didn't just waltz into the supermarket. Someone had to raise it.


Chuck


Chuck

[billvon 2,989]

>Who said the rancher was on welfare?

Over a million bucks of free grazing on land that's not his? That's a hefty chunk of government welfare right there that you and I are paying for.

>Well, that cow didn't just waltz into the supermarket. Someone had to raise it.

Yep. And most ranchers are honest people who don't try to defraud the government.

[Boomerdog 0]

Quote

And if you are going to compare any of those people to a rancher who doesn't want to pay grazing fees . . . . it's not worth having any further discussion with you.

Then take your ball, your bat, and your marbles and go home!
I've had General Officers throw me out of their offices and in some cases call me back the next day to tell me that after thinking it over I wasn't too far off the mark after all.

I've pissed off a lot of people and lived to tell about it so get in line and take a number.

I'll ask you again...Is that all you got?

[kallend 2,026]

masterrig

***
It's fascinating that the same folks that despise poor and indigent welfare recipients also strongly support welfare corporations and welfare ranchers.

Who said the rancher was on welfare? Tell me, how many ranchers do you know who are on welfare! Besides, you do like a good steak, don't you? Well, that cow didn't just waltz into the supermarket. Someone had to raise it.


Chuck


Chuck

Free grazing on public land sure sounds like welfare to me.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 798]

When people owe rent, we don't take their belongings.
We kick them off the land and take them to court.
Herd the damn cows off the property, lock the property, go to court.
That IS how we normally do that.


Welfare, racism, constitutional fanatics, Left vs. Right, name calling, politics...jebus.

No wonder this country is so damn divided.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>Who said the rancher was on welfare?

Over a million bucks of free grazing on land that's not his? That's a hefty chunk of government welfare right there that you and I are paying for.

>Well, that cow didn't just waltz into the supermarket. Someone had to raise it.

Yep. And most ranchers are honest people who don't try to defraud the government.

Just for clarification
The dollar amount you like to use here is the $200 per day per head FINE the federal judge assessed

and in reality it would be MUCH more that the 1 million you like to use

He has paid his so called rent to Clark county and the state

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,989]

>Herd the damn cows off the property, lock the property

Agreed. But since he was threatening violence, the BLM gave up on herding the cows off the property and "locking" it. ("Locking" in quotes because it's hard to lock the "gate" on 600,000 acres of grazing land.) I imagine we could build an secure fence; who's going to pay for it?

>go to court.

We did that, starting back in 1998. He ignores the judgment of the court.

[rhaig 0]

kallend

Free grazing on public land sure sounds like welfare to me.

if it was free, we wouldn't be having this argument thread. If it was free, then it would qualify as welfare perhaps.

So which is it? Did he not pay fees he was supposed to? Or did the feds screw up and bill him when it was supposed to be welfare and be free?

--
Rob

[billvon 2,989]

>He has paid his so called rent to Clark county and the state

And I paid my state and local taxes. Does that mean I don't have to pay federal taxes?

[normiss 798]

Our government doesn't build fences.
Yet it would have been cheaper than what they blew through on this. Bet that chopper was more than a fence.
Rancher wasn't the one doing the threatening from my understanding.
I've know ranchers with MUCH larger pastures....they were secure. With alarms and videos even.

I thought he had been paying the monies to the places he had always paid the monies to? No?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

normiss

I thought he had been paying the monies to the places he had always paid the monies to? No?

No. He "decided" that he didn't like what the BLM was doing with the money, so he "decided" that he was going to pay the county instead.

Since they had no authority to accept the money, they didn't.

This is in the daughter's description of "Their Side" of the events. It was linked a ways back.

Sort of like a tenant decides he doesn't like what the landlord is doing, so he pays the rent to the guy in 3A instead.

And, FWIW, when someone is evicted from a rental property, the sheriff (actually deputies from the county) come to execute the eviction order. Resisting that eviction order would be met with force by the deputies.

Resisting that order with deadly force (or the threat of it) would be met with a lot of force by the deputies (like the county SWAT team).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>He has paid his so called rent to Clark county and the state

And I paid my state and local taxes. Does that mean I don't have to pay federal taxes?

Nothing to do with taxes. Fines is what the feds are claiming. There is a difference

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,989]

>Rancher wasn't the one doing the threatening from my understanding.

Other than threatening a 'range war' and doing 'whatever it takes' to stop the BLM.

>I thought he had been paying the monies to the places he had always paid the monies to? No?

Nope. He's been refusing to pay the BLM since 1993. The first judgment against him was in 1996, but he says he will ignore the judgments.

To your previous point, yes, now they can go after the money he owes in other ways. Perhaps build a fence and employ guards. And it will cost taxpayers even more to kowtow to a scofflaw who refuses to pay what he owes.

>I've know ranchers with MUCH larger pastures....they were secure. With alarms
>and videos even.

Would that stop a guy like Bundy? He'd just cut the fence and herd his cows back in. Why would he give a shit about an alarm or a video? If anyone comes after him he'll just threaten another range war.

[billvon 2,989]

>Nothing to do with taxes. Fines is what the feds are claiming. There is a difference

Yep. And if you don't pay your taxes (or fees) you get fined. Again, claiming "I paid all the taxes I owe to the state; I don't need to pay any Federal fines!" would get anyone else arrested, since they'd be breaking the law. But when a right winger does it he is hailed as a hero.

[funjumper101 15]

rushmc

***>Who said the rancher was on welfare?

Over a million bucks of free grazing on land that's not his? That's a hefty chunk of government welfare right there that you and I are paying for.

>Well, that cow didn't just waltz into the supermarket. Someone had to raise it.

Yep. And most ranchers are honest people who don't try to defraud the government.

Just for clarification
The dollar amount you like to use here is the $200 per day per head FINE the federal judge assessed

and in reality it would be MUCH more that the 1 million you like to use

He has paid his so called rent to Clark county and the state

So what would RWC media have to say if Cliven Bundy were not white?
Absolutely nothing, I am sure.

Would white "militia" loonies be helping out the non-white citizens that were "standing up to the BLM"?
I am 100% sure that they would not.

Since when is lawbreaking and threatening government agents with heinous violence acceptable?
It is OK if Faux Spews says it is, apparently.

Right Wing media should be held responsible for aiding and abetting domestic terrorism in this matter. Publishing lies that bring out hundreds of armed idiots that are ready to do battle with duly authorized federal employees enforcing federal laws is actively supporting terrorism.

Why isn't there any action being taken to stop this terrorist activity?

Begin quoted text >>>

For 20 years the federal government has fined Cliven Bundy for grazing his cattle on protected land. And for 20 years Bundy has refused to pay. Last month this dance came to an end when the Bureau of Land Management sent Bundy a letter informing him that it intended to “impound his trespass cattle” that have been roaming on federal property. It closed off hundreds of thousands of acres, and earlier this month, moved to round up Bundy’s cows.

Protesters challenged the BLM, and Bundy’s son was arrested for “refusing to disperse” from the area in question. Bundy’s cause caught fire on right-wing blogs, egged on by Fox News and conservative outlets like the National Review, which have held the confiscation as a dangerous intrusion on private property rights, despite Bundy’s lawbreaking. Defending his decision, the rancher told one right-wing radio host that he’s ready to take drastic steps beyond refusing to pay:


I told you that I did the legal thing and the political thing and the media thing and it seems like it's down to “we the people” if we're going to get it done. You know the things like militias. You know, I haven't called no militia or anything like that, but hey, it looks like that's where we're at.


To that end, hundreds of people from outside Nevada—including “militia” armed with rifles and ammunition—have joined his protests, going as far as to set up camp and confront federal officials with brandished weapons. The federal government blinked, and the Bureau of Land Management announced an abrupt end to its cattle roundup, hoping to avoid violence and further confrontations.

A few things.

First, this entire incident speaks to the continued power of right-wing mythology. For many of the protesters, this isn’t about a rogue rancher as much as it’s a stand against “tyranny” personified in Barack Obama and his administration.

Second, it won’t happen, but right-wing media ought to be condemned for their role in fanning the flames of this standoff. After years of decrying Obama’s “lawlessness” and hyperventilating over faux scandals, it’s galling to watch conservatives applaud actual lawbreaking and violent threats to federal officials.

Finally, I can’t help but wonder how conservatives would react if these were black farmers—or black anyone—defending “their” land against federal officials. Would Fox News applaud black militiamen aiming their guns at white bureaucrats?

Somehow, given the degree to which right-wing media traffic in racial paranoia, I think we’d be looking at a different situation if the Bundy Ranch belonged to a bunch of black people. And as someone who closely follows the regular incidents of lethal police violence against blacks and Latinos, I also wonder whether law enforcement would be as tepid against a group of armed African-Americans. Judging from past events, I’m not so sure.

<<< End quoted text

from-

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2014/04/15/bundy_ranch_and_bureau_of_land_management_standoff_what_right_wingers_anger.html?wpisrc=obnetwork

[masterrig 1]

billvon

>Isn't he that guy that owes like $1.3 Million in back taxes and DIDN'T have his
>house surrounded by snipers?

He's also the guy who didn't threaten to shoot cops.

So... does that justify the BLM doing this...

http://ww[url]w.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/16/feds-accused-leaving-trail-wreckage-after-nevada-ranch-standoff/

Real stewards of the land... riiiight.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

kallend

******
It's fascinating that the same folks that despise poor and indigent welfare recipients also strongly support welfare corporations and welfare ranchers.

Who said the rancher was on welfare? Tell me, how many ranchers do you know who are on welfare! Besides, you do like a good steak, don't you? Well, that cow didn't just waltz into the supermarket. Someone had to raise it.


Chuck


Chuck

Free grazing on public land sure sounds like welfare to me.

What ever... There are sill parts of this country where there is 'open range'. Is that welfare too?


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

billvon

>Who said the rancher was on welfare?

Over a million bucks of free grazing on land that's not his? That's a hefty chunk of government welfare right there that you and I are paying for.

>Well, that cow didn't just waltz into the supermarket. Someone had to raise it.

Yep. And most ranchers are honest people who don't try to defraud the government.

I will agree, both sides are wrong. But, where was the BLM's warrant of arrest for failure to pay? They didn't have one because they do just as they damned well please and they did! They tore up his water lines, water tanks, 'stun gunned' two of the man's family members, killed two of the man's bulls and anything else they felt like destroying claiming that all that was interfering with the livelihood of the natural surroundings. Where was their paperwork for that? Two wrongs don't make a right, granted, but how can they refer to themselves as 'stewards of the land' when they do things like that. That, is to me, out and out terrorism. NOW, they are going to do it 'peacefully in the courts'. Marvelous! No wonder farmers and ranchers can't stand the BLM. Even the hard working honest one's.


Chuck