Feds lay siege to Nevada ranch

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>Nothing to do with taxes. Fines is what the feds are claiming. There is a difference

Yep. And if you don't pay your taxes (or fees) you get fined. Again, claiming "I paid all the taxes I owe to the state; I don't need to pay any Federal fines!" would get anyone else arrested, since they'd be breaking the law. But when a right winger does it he is hailed as a hero.

You need to take a breath. I have not claimed anyone a hero

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,989]

> But, where was the BLM's warrant of arrest for failure to pay?

Maybe that's what it will come down to. And since he says he does not acknowledge the Federal government's authority, it might end up with him dead after shooting a few agents. I was hoping it wouldn't get to that level.

> They tore up his water lines, water tanks, 'stun gunned' two of the man's family
>members, killed two of the man's bulls and anything else they felt like destroying
>claiming that all that was interfering with the livelihood of the natural
>surroundings.

I don't believe anything FOX News reports, so I don't believe that.

[masterrig 1]

billvon

> But, where was the BLM's warrant of arrest for failure to pay?

Maybe that's what it will come down to. And since he says he does not acknowledge the Federal government's authority, it might end up with him dead after shooting a few agents. I was hoping it wouldn't get to that level.

> They tore up his water lines, water tanks, 'stun gunned' two of the man's family
>members, killed two of the man's bulls and anything else they felt like destroying
>claiming that all that was interfering with the livelihood of the natural
>surroundings.

I don't believe anything FOX News reports, so I don't believe that.

They should've had a warrant and the local sheriff with them. They are like I said terrorists. Am I to understand that you defend and or approve of what the BLM did?
As for the FOX report I provided... do a search and pick one you like it's all over the net. How's that?


Chuck

[wayneflorida 0]

I just watched a video, Wayne Hage, american rancher parts 1 & 2. Takes about 2 hrs but it is really interesting about water rights and the involvement of governmental agencies.

Don't know if this is the same situation so I'll have to do more research on this case.

[billvon 2,989]

>They should've had a warrant and the local sheriff with them.

If they did then Bundy's supporters would be screaming to high heaven that it was a BLM matter, so why was local law enforcement getting involved? It's unconstitutional! (And the sheriff would probably also be smart enough to avoid the entire issue until the media circus blew over.)

>As for the FOX report I provided... do a search and pick one you like it's all over
>the net. How's that?

Oh, I believe the condition of the land. I don't believe the BLM did it, and I don't believe the story of how it happened. Keep in mind that Bundy's supporters wanted to put the women in front of the protesters, so if there was shooting women would die on TV. Given they're willing to do that to gather support for their cause, I wouldn't put it past them to trash a few tanks to get some more photogenic ammunition against the evil BLM.

[masterrig 1]

You're jokin'... aren't you?


Chuck

[Amazon 7]

masterrig

You're jokin'... aren't you?


Chuck

No Chuck he is not... One of the militia supporters actually told people that was what they were doing. And that supporter should know better since he I believe is supposed to be LEO in a neighboring state.

[skypuppy 1]

GeorgiaDon

******

Quote

No, I'm not questioning why they didn't use force. I'm thinking they could've used the courts a little more than they did.

After 20 years, at some point you have to enforce the law.

Do I think they needed to show up with an Army? Absolutely not. But nice letters didn't seem to be doing the trick. A site visit was in order.

Earlier in this thread, I suggested a visit from the feds... not an army but a couple agents but that was ruled out as being too costly.


ChuckWhat do you think a "nice little face-to-face" would have accomplished that 20 years of litigation didn't? It's not as if this guy had no idea anything was amiss until the BLM started to remove his cattle. He's been in "fuck you" mode for 20 years.

Bundy is now claiming effective ownership of a huge swath of public land. His cattle are grazing through a large part of Lake Mead National Recreational Area and the Valley of Fire State Park. The situation is not much different from a mining company claiming that they don't recognize the United States Government, and then opening an open pit mine in the middle of Big Bend National Park.

I'll admit that this case has a certain resonance with me. When I lived in Arizona, I was very frustrated with ranchers who closed off BLM land and denied everyone else their legal right to access that public land for hiking and camping. I ran into this at a number of places in both Arizona and southern New Mexico. For the price of a grazing permit, these ranchers got (well, took) what amounted to personal ownership of huge tracts of land, including in some cases entire mountain ranges. BLM officials just referred me to local law enforcement. Appeals to local law enforcement went nowhere, as they either were friendly with the rancher or decided it wasn't something they wanted to get mixed up in.

Don
you honestly are claiming that allowing cattle to graze on land is the same thing as opening an open pit mine on it?

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[masterrig 1]

Amazon

***You're jokin'... aren't you?


Chuck

No Chuck he is not... One of the militia supporters actually told people that was what they were doing. And that supporter should know better since he I believe is supposed to be LEO in a neighboring state.

That could've been 'thrown-out' there during a bull session and someone took it serious or thought it could really make big news. Who knows? The defending of the BLM is the part that really got me. They play by their own rules, do whatever they want and as long as it's done in the name of 'green' or that they are saving some endangered species, it's OK. They can lie through their teeth and we're supposed to accept it. After all... it's the government and the government is always right. We'll all be eatin' rainbow stew and drinkin; free Bubble-up, too.

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/04/16/exclusive-evidence-of-blms-deadly-abuse-of-animals-taken-from-bundy-ranch/


Chuck

[normiss 798]

His counter-suit for trespass and damage to his own property might just even the monies out.


THAT one won't go to a fed court either.

[masterrig 1]

normiss

His counter-suit for trespass and damage to his own property might just even the monies out.


THAT one won't go to a fed court either.

You got that right! I don't think things would go to good for the BLM in 'local' courts, either. Folks need to open their eyes to the fact that just because it's a government agency doesn't mean it's good. I wonder if Obama has plans of visiting that ranch?


Chuck

[quade 4]

masterrig

I wonder if Obama has plans of visiting that ranch?

You do realize this entire affair is several orders of magnitude below his level of gives-a-shit; right?

So, no. I can almost guarantee he has no plans to visit the ranch. Not because he's afraid of gun fire, but because this is not actually an issue worth him caring about unless gun fire actually breaks out.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[masterrig 1]

quade

***I wonder if Obama has plans of visiting that ranch?

You do realize this entire affair is several orders of magnitude below his level of gives-a-shit; right?

So, no. I can almost guarantee he has no plans to visit the ranch. Not because he's afraid of gun fire, but because this is not actually an issue worth him caring about unless gun fire actually breaks out.

That was just a wise-crack.


Chuck

[normiss 798]

And then only to offer condolences, say a pretty speech, express his concern, and get right back on the plane.

[quade 4]

normiss

And then only to offer condolences, say a pretty speech, express his concern, and get right back on the plane.

GWB and 9/11?

Seriously though, what else would be possible at that point?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wayneflorida 0]

I added

normiss

And then only to offer condolences, say a pretty speech, express his concern, do a couple campaign stops/fundraisers, and get right back on the plane.

[kelpdiver 2]

masterrig

Sorry, I low-balled the figure. If you would, check Normiss' post in this thread. The cost to the BLM was closer to 3-mill. That was some return they got for their buck. Rather our tax payer dollars! No one has handed Bundy a bill and besides, he didn't tell them to take his cattle... the BLM just took them.
How do you figure that 'we' are paying his grazing fees... you lost me with that one.


Chuck

Reiterating the response I already gave you - law enforcement doesn't subscribe to a cost benefit analysis, particularly not one where you take the macro view.

When we send to prison for 5 years a guy who held up a 7-11, we're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in response to a crime with a direct cost of what....$200?

But without the deterrent of that prison time, the rate of armed robbery skyrockets. So focusing on the cost of this attempt (or the odd lamenting by boomer that they didn't shoot up the place) really misses the point.

[masterrig 1]

I can see your point. I gotta tell you though, I got a little choked-up seeing those cowboys ride up on horseback carrying the stars and stripes to face those 'hired guns'. Whether you believe he's right or you believe he's wrong, he has the courage to stand-up for his beliefs. Isn't that what this country is based on?


Chuck

[rehmwa 2]

masterrig

Whether you believe he's right or you believe he's wrong, he has the courage to stand-up for his beliefs. Isn't that what this country is based on?

Mussolini stood up for his beliefs
Hitler stood up for his beliefs
Bill Clinton stood up for his beliefs
George W BUSH stood up for his beliefs

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[quade 4]

masterrig

I gotta tell you though, I got a little choked-up seeing those cowboys ride up on horseback carrying the stars and stripes to face those 'hired guns'\

And what makes you think the cowboys on horseback carrying the star and stripes weren't also "hired guns"?

I have no information they are or aren't, but it would not be the first time some group hired professional protesters to act out a part and pull on the suckers' heart strings.

One of the things about this story (and a whole lot of other stories) that bugs the crap out of me is the hero worship of cowboy image for political gain. It's an image that isn't even based in fact, but almost a complete fabrication straight out of Hollywood.

And some people wonder why Ronald Reagan became President. Reagan wasn't a cowboy, but he sure as hell capitalized on the image of one.

Quote

Whether you believe he's right or you believe he's wrong, he has the courage to stand-up for his beliefs. Isn't that what this country is based on?

Nope. More mythology. The country is based on companies stealing land from indigenous people and exploiting it.

So, maybe you are right after all. Just not in the way you intended.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,989]

>You're jokin'... aren't you?

Nope. Here's a quote straight from one of his supporters, after he tried to get the women up front during the confrontation:

=========
"It was a tactical plot that I was trying to get them to use,” Mack said. “If they’re going to start killing people, I’m sorry, but to show the world how ruthless these people are, women needed to be the first ones shot.”

“I’m sorry, that sounds horrible,” he continued. “I would have put my own wife or daughters there, and I would have been screaming bloody murder to watch them die. I would have gone next, I would have been the next one to be killed. I’m not afraid to die here. I’m willing to die here.”
=========

Are you really saying that you support people like that? That they would be willing to get women and children killed to further their cause, but wouldn't be willing to do a bit of vandalism to further their cause?

[craddock 0]

billvon

>You're jokin'... aren't you?

Nope. Here's a quote straight from one of his supporters, after he tried to get the women up front during the confrontation:

=========
"It was a tactical plot that I was trying to get them to use,” Mack said. “If they’re going to start killing people, I’m sorry, but to show the world how ruthless these people are, women needed to be the first ones shot.”

“I’m sorry, that sounds horrible,” he continued. “I would have put my own wife or daughters there, and I would have been screaming bloody murder to watch them die. I would have gone next, I would have been the next one to be killed. I’m not afraid to die here. I’m willing to die here.”
=========

Are you really saying that you support people like that? That they would be willing to get women and children killed to further their cause, but wouldn't be willing to do a bit of vandalism to further their cause?

Women and children? I try and stay out of this forum because I can't deal with the either the far right or the far left. But from my point of view the ones in the dz.com forum that twist stuff the most are on the left.

The quote said daughters not children. Perhaps you looked it up first to verify and you are correct but based on other slanted posts I would expect out of Kallend I am not so sure.

If they are Children say it, otherwise the most that stands out in the post to me twisting Daughters into Children. Regardless how stupid the comment he made seems to be, it is hard to except much when you substitute words like that. Perhaps he said it perhaps he didn't. But why change the wording?

If they are children which I don't care to look up because I think you would have let us know if you already did.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[normiss 798]

You'd prefer to tolerate a government that would kill their own to further THEIR interests??

I don't like either option...but.....that does appear to be where we're headed in some cases.

[Amazon 7]

craddock

***>You're jokin'... aren't you?

Nope. Here's a quote straight from one of his supporters, after he tried to get the women up front during the confrontation:

=========
"It was a tactical plot that I was trying to get them to use,” Mack said. “If they’re going to start killing people, I’m sorry, but to show the world how ruthless these people are, women needed to be the first ones shot.”

“I’m sorry, that sounds horrible,” he continued. “I would have put my own wife or daughters there, and I would have been screaming bloody murder to watch them die. I would have gone next, I would have been the next one to be killed. I’m not afraid to die here. I’m willing to die here.”
=========

Are you really saying that you support people like that? That they would be willing to get women and children killed to further their cause, but wouldn't be willing to do a bit of vandalism to further their cause?

Women and children? I try and stay out of this forum because I can't deal with the either the far right or the far left. But from my point of view the ones in the dz.com forum that twist stuff the most are on the left.

The quote said daughters not children. Perhaps you looked it up first to verify and you are correct but based on other slanted posts I would expect out of Kallend I am not so sure.

If they are Children say it, otherwise the most that stands out in the post to me twisting Daughters into Children. Regardless how stupid the comment he made seems to be, it is hard to except much when you substitute words like that. Perhaps he said it perhaps he didn't. But why change the wording?

If they are children which I don't care to look up because I think you would have let us know if you already did.

How about the stratigizer himself former Sheriff Richard Mack in his own words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvN3luheEe8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Kbe8KqjmGo

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

The country is based on companies stealing land from indigenous people and exploiting it.

I know better than to respond to something like this, but I simply can't help myself here, quade...

We are all engines of karma