Cliven Bundy Syndrome

[Amazon 7]

rushmc

***>Anyone who thinks todays gov or the BLM have integrity are doing bridge buying
>deals as we speak

And anyone who thinks that a crook who doesn't pay his bills has integrity . . . well, I got a great bridge in Alaska that will go for a song.

Crooks paying crooks is always an interesting show

Yeah.. but if they don't.... they could get "whacked"

[billvon 2,991]

>Crooks paying crooks is always an interesting show

Coming this fall on The History Channel.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>Crooks paying crooks is always an interesting show

Coming this fall on The History Channel.

Now you may be right about this one!!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

I got a great bridge in Alaska

Gosh! Where does it go?

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi rush,

Quote

Crooks paying crooks is always an interesting show

Those 'crooks' who are supposed to have been paid the grazing fees are you and me.

We are the US of A.

When any federal agency ( and it is not just the feds ) does not have the revenue that they feel that they need, it usually gets the difference in taxes. That's again, you & me.

JerryBaumchen

[wmw999 2,447]

Quote

Beter stated a person of integrity has an easier time dealing with another with the same level of integrity

to me, integrity is what I do. Whether the other person behaves as I would wish doesn't change my view of integrity in dealing with them.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

JerryBaumchen

Hi rush,

Quote

Crooks paying crooks is always an interesting show

Those 'crooks' who are supposed to have been paid the grazing fees are you and me.

We are the US of A.

When any federal agency ( and it is not just the feds ) does not have the revenue that they feel that they need, it usually gets the difference in taxes. That's again, you & me.

JerryBaumchen

That is what is supposed to be

but
What do you think is happening to all those billions of dollars the gov cant account for?

I do not condone the gov over stepping its constitutionaly given powers

you and me or not
What is happeining is not right

Now
that said

rent should be paid
I have yet to support Cliven on this count but, the govs reaction was over the top
and it opened the debate up to whether BLM control is right and legal to begin with

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

wmw999

Quote

Beter stated a person of integrity has an easier time dealing with another with the same level of integrity

to me, integrity is what I do. Whether the other person behaves as I would wish doesn't change my view of integrity in dealing with them.

Wendy P.

Good point and well taken

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

masterrig

******... If the government keeps it up, we'll wind-up putting farmers and ranchers out of business and we'll be dependent on other countries for our food as well as increasing the un-employment rate.


Chuck

Not really. At least not in this particular case. This is some of the worst possible grazing land. The very bottom of the barrel. The few hundred head of cattle (few thousand if you consider all that used to be there) aren't even a drop in the bucket to the beef industry.
There is a lot better land, and a lot of it, elsewhere for cattle. We don't have a grazing land shortage in this country.

We do have a few people who feel that they are entitled to use federal land however they like regardless of consequences because they have always done it.

I'm curious about your statement that there is 'a lot' of grazing land in this country. Is that your assessment or do you have a source for that statement? I keep reading and hearing that we are losing millions of acres of farm and ranchland annually due to 'urban sprawl'. Also, if there is such an abundance of grazing land... why are ranchers leasing government land for grazing in our Western states?


Chuck

Sorry for the delay, Chuck. Haven't had much chance to catch up here.

I don't have any source for this, it's a personal assessment based on a bit of personal knowledge, observations around the country and "gut feeling."
It could also be very wrong.

There is a huge (I mean really huge) amount of grazing land in the middle of the country. Good, well watered pasture. Much of it is too dry for food crops (corn, wheat, beans ect), but adequate for grass/alfalfa. Some of it is unsuitable for food crops for other reasons, like contour (too steep/hilly) or soil conditions.
Here in Wisconsin, there is a huge dairy industry. The cattle graze pasture during the summer, plus the farmers have additional fields growing alfalfa that gets stored for winter feeding.
Out west (Montana, Dakotas, Wyoming, Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas) it takes more acreage per animal, but still nowhere near what it takes on the land in question.

Where the amount of land per animal gets higher, and where the land is mostly owned by the federal government, then leasing the land makes more sense than owning it. I'm not sure that it is even possible for the ranchers to buy the BLM land they lease.

Urban sprawl is taking a lot of land, cities like to expand. Grazing land and cropland is being developed. But it's a tiny fraction of the arable land. It sure won't appear that way when the government decides to "appropriate" half of a friend's property, but it really isn't all that much compared to how much is really out there.

And the beef industry isn't facing any hard times. Nor will it any time soon, at least not for lack of land. The US is still way up near the top for per capita beef consumption, and we are 4th in the world in beef exports.

Wiki Clicki

The land Bundy uses/used/wants to use is really marginal for cattle. If it was really usable, there would be wild grazers living on it (antelope, elk, bison, ect.) Those sorts of animals are quite common on good grazing land.
It would be far better overall, IMO, to get the cattle off that land and let it land go back to it's natural state.

Which is what the BLM has been trying to do.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[masterrig 1]

wolfriverjoe

*********... If the government keeps it up, we'll wind-up putting farmers and ranchers out of business and we'll be dependent on other countries for our food as well as increasing the un-employment rate.


Chuck

Not really. At least not in this particular case. This is some of the worst possible grazing land. The very bottom of the barrel. The few hundred head of cattle (few thousand if you consider all that used to be there) aren't even a drop in the bucket to the beef industry.
There is a lot better land, and a lot of it, elsewhere for cattle. We don't have a grazing land shortage in this country.

We do have a few people who feel that they are entitled to use federal land however they like regardless of consequences because they have always done it.

I'm curious about your statement that there is 'a lot' of grazing land in this country. Is that your assessment or do you have a source for that statement? I keep reading and hearing that we are losing millions of acres of farm and ranchland annually due to 'urban sprawl'. Also, if there is such an abundance of grazing land... why are ranchers leasing government land for grazing in our Western states?


Chuck

Sorry for the delay, Chuck. Haven't had much chance to catch up here.

I don't have any source for this, it's a personal assessment based on a bit of personal knowledge, observations around the country and "gut feeling."
It could also be very wrong.

There is a huge (I mean really huge) amount of grazing land in the middle of the country. Good, well watered pasture. Much of it is too dry for food crops (corn, wheat, beans ect), but adequate for grass/alfalfa. Some of it is unsuitable for food crops for other reasons, like contour (too steep/hilly) or soil conditions.
Here in Wisconsin, there is a huge dairy industry. The cattle graze pasture during the summer, plus the farmers have additional fields growing alfalfa that gets stored for winter feeding.
Out west (Montana, Dakotas, Wyoming, Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas) it takes more acreage per animal, but still nowhere near what it takes on the land in question.

Where the amount of land per animal gets higher, and where the land is mostly owned by the federal government, then leasing the land makes more sense than owning it. I'm not sure that it is even possible for the ranchers to buy the BLM land they lease.

Urban sprawl is taking a lot of land, cities like to expand. Grazing land and cropland is being developed. But it's a tiny fraction of the arable land. It sure won't appear that way when the government decides to "appropriate" half of a friend's property, but it really isn't all that much compared to how much is really out there.

And the beef industry isn't facing any hard times. Nor will it any time soon, at least not for lack of land. The US is still way up near the top for per capita beef consumption, and we are 4th in the world in beef exports.

Wiki Clicki

The land Bundy uses/used/wants to use is really marginal for cattle. If it was really usable, there would be wild grazers living on it (antelope, elk, bison, ect.) Those sorts of animals are quite common on good grazing land.
It would be far better overall, IMO, to get the cattle off that land and let it land go back to it's natural state.

Which is what the BLM has been trying to do.

Thanks for your response... it's a good one!


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

You made the statement that the cattle industry isn't facing hard times. Well, it is just the opposite. Thousands of head of cattle we killed by an early fall blizzard. Beef producing states are in a drought. Most of the cattle in the drought states have been sold-off so as to keep them from starving to death. The cost of cattle feed has skyrocketed due to the increase in ethanol production. I'm seeing entire ranches or parts of ranches either sold or portions of ranches being sold just to maintain the rancher's livelihood. And you say the beef raisers aren't facing hard times? Re-building a herd takes time. Depending how many head of breeder cows the ranchers can afford and with their present numbers reduced to bare minimum, you don't re-build a herd over night.
I've been accused of saying that all the land should be for grazing. Not at all. What I am saying is, there needs to be a medium struck where food producers can do just that. You and the rest of this country likes to eat. Don't you??


Chuck

[ryoder 1,590]

Fark:

Quote

Rugged individualist Cliven Bundy, who is being sued by a woman whose car collided with one of his cows that wandered onto the interstate, says it's the STATE'S job to keep the fences repaired on the land he illegally grazes his cows on.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/cliven-bundy-blames-state-for-faulty-fence-after-woman-sues-him-for-interstate-cow-crash/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[funjumper101 15]

ryoder

Fark:

Quote

Rugged individualist Cliven Bundy, who is being sued by a woman whose car collided with one of his cows that wandered onto the interstate, says it's the STATE'S job to keep the fences repaired on the land he illegally grazes his cows on.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/cliven-bundy-blames-state-for-faulty-fence-after-woman-sues-him-for-interstate-cow-crash/

Conservatives are two faced assholes that have no sense of right and wrong. Bundy's statements on this matter are to be expected. He leeches off society by failing to pay his rent, and a pack of white skinned morons helped him delay justice. If Bundy and his supporters were black, or Mexican, there would have been a far different outcome to the standoff.

Where is the outrage over Bundy's complete refusal to be an honorable citizen by paying his bills and taking responsibility for damage his property has caused?

Conservatives supposedly believe in law and order, which goes hand in hand with personal responsibility. As usual, the actions don't match up with the professed values. Quite the opposite.