Where is the Ukraine thread?

[vision 0]

So now Nato want to arm Ukraine, which by the way is not a member of NATO.

Ukraine have been dropping white phosphorus on its own civilians and this has not been acknowledged by the west, let alone condemned.

It seems any amount of war crimes are allowed by Ukraine on their own people.

Then there are the people in this forum that pretend to be politically aware but are ignoring this subject.

This is escalating very quickly and I find it is very bizarre that none of you seem to be the slight bit interested. I read a lot of what you all post about in the neighboring threads and I cannot understand how this is not interesting to any of you?

Or is it that you lot are not politically aware at all and simply let the establishment feed you the 'news' that they want you to see?

I do not expect the US or UK media would have the footage of the Ukranian military killing innocents. That would not help the NATO objective.

Russia s being provoked into War and when they bite, I suspect you will all be very interested, very quickly.

[Amazon 7]

Get back in your bunker comrade your vision is not so good.

[vision 0]

LOL,

So you choose a personal attack (however mild) over any real content because you are compelled to say something but cannot actually refute what I have said.

Go back to CNN (your bunker).

You obviously condone the use of white phosphorus on civilians, and civilians of the very same country that used it.

Among many other atrocities.

How very nice of you.

[Amazon 7]

vision

LOL,

So you choose a personal attack (however mild) over any real content because you are compelled to say something but cannot actually refute what I have said.

Go back to CNN (your bunker).

You obviously condone the use of white phosphorus on civilians, and civilians of the very same country that used it.

Among many other atrocities.

How very nice of you.

Did you get all this butthurt over your invasion of Georgia??? How about the genocide perpetrated by your buddies in Chechnya????

Perhaps if all those ethnic Ruskies love Mother Russia so much.. perhaps they should just move rather than killing their Ukrainian neighbors because they wanted to vote in democratic elections..

[vision 0]

I am not butthurt and back then I was less into politics so did not have a handle on the situation. That is also the past.

You call a couple of thousand people genocide while you country has killed over a million in the past couple of decades.

You really do have a twisted grasp on reality.

Russia has been quite reasonable with Ukraine and Ukraine have acted like children, as have the US, the EU and NATO.

It is clear through what is portrayed in the media (and more importantly what is not), what the stance is on the matter from the west.

You go ahead and arm terrorists in Syria and other countries while claiming to fight them in other countries.

I take it you condone the use of white phosphorus on civilians, that in itself explains a lot about you.

I do not condone any country or individual hurting one another.

Using Russia's violent past be it for offence or defense is a very poor way to support provoking them.

Do you like death?

You obviously are a beating the war drums yourself.

be careful what you wish for.

[Coreece 190]

The liberals/conservatives don't give a shit unless it affects them directly...we can't solve all the worlds problems, but we can send you a machine gun preacher if you want...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Amazon 7]

vision

I am not butthurt and back then I was less into politics so did not have a handle on the situation. That is also the past.

You call a couple of thousand people genocide while you country has killed over a million in the past couple of decades.

You really do have a twisted grasp on reality.

Russia has been quite reasonable with Ukraine and Ukraine have acted like children, as have the US, the EU and NATO.

It is clear through what is portrayed in the media (and more importantly what is not), what the stance is on the matter from the west.

You go ahead and arm terrorists in Syria and other countries while claiming to fight them in other countries.

I take it you condone the use of white phosphorus on civilians, that in itself explains a lot about you.

I do not condone any country or individual hurting one another.

Using Russia's violent past be it for offence or defense is a very poor way to support provoking them.

Do you like death?

You obviously are a beating the war drums yourself.

be careful what you wish for.

It is already there Comrade... the Ruskies sent weapons... across their border to their ethnic stooges.. and today they shot down an Il-76 with 49 Ukranians on it. Sorry Comrade but The Ruskies started this one but you are incapable of seeing your little tin plated god for what he is.

[vision 0]

The Russians started it?



LOL

You go back to CNN and continue as you were.

Quote

and today they shot down an Il-76 with 49 Ukranians on it.

Well I guess they ( the people of east Ukraine that are being killed by their own government) are tired of being killed by airstrikes.

You think Russia shot down the aircraft?

I think you actually need to lay off the CNN...

[yoink 321]

vision

You think Russia shot down the aircraft?

I think you actually need to lay off the CNN...

So provide an unbiased news source for your information?

All the news on that incident I've seen says it was shot down by Pro-Russian Ukrainian separatists. Not the Ukrainian government which you seem to be suggesting, but the pro-Russian troops who have been armed by Russia.

That's not the same as saying Russia did it, but it's further towards that end of the scale than the Ukrainian government doing it.

[vision 0]

Quote

So provide an unbiased news source for your information?

All the news on that incident I've seen says it was shot down by Pro-Russian Ukrainian separatists. Not the Ukrainian government which you seem to be suggesting, but the pro-Russian troops who have been armed by Russia.

Of course the Aircraft was shot down by 'pro Russian separatists'. Amazon was suggesting that it was Russia.

'Other' Aircraft were dropping bombs and what appears to be white phosphorus on those in the east. Is self defense not an option in war?

It is clear that those that are referred to as 'pro Russian separatists' are not in favor of Kiev's new regime and feel an attachment to Russia, this does not make them Russia.

This is a civil war with Ukrainians fighting Ukrainians.

Suggesting Russia is arming them however is not really truthful as there is no evidence that this is the case.

If there was evidence of this it would be all over the news. A that information is in favor of the western medias rhetoric.

It is also suggested that Russia has breached the boarder of Ukraine which is also not truthful, in fact one Ukranian armored vehicle was left deserted well within the Russian border.

Russia does not stand to gain from this conflict, the west does, in theory. In the end however the west stands to lose a great deal with the conflict if it does not meet it's objectives... the west are not very good at meeting their (publicly announced) objectives.

[normiss 843]

How are the satellite images of tanks
being falsified?

Russia already gained what they would have fought the world for, the warm water port.

[vision 0]

The T64 was scrapped by Russia in 2013.

The one tank photographed supposedly in Ukraine could easily be Ukraine government tank that the separatists have captured.

The others are in Russian Territory.

The rebel forces in Ukraine have gained a lot of equipment from the Ukraine government and also Ukrainian military personnel have defected, in some cases this could include the changing of hands of certain equipment.

The only T64 factory is in Ukraine... and the Ukraine military has about 3000 of them...

Kindly explain how a T64 being in Ukraine is evidence of Russia sending equipment over the border?

This reminds me of the WMD bullshit.

If Russia was to attack, they would likely use current and more effective equipment and not 30 year old junk that they have since stopped using and training with.

The Russian flag is flown by the rebel forces.

[normiss 843]

You might have some valid points after all.

I need to look closer at the turrets.

[vision 0]

Ignore the western 'experts' suggesting that these are T72's.

Any layman such as myself can do about 5 mins research and discover these experts are nothing but shills trying to create a false story.

look at the wheels, the turret and the exhaust on a side view. Though the Nato confirmation you posted only states T64's the BBC are claiming T72's which Ukraine only has a few of.

In Crimea there were quite a Few T64's these could also have been shifted.

[normiss 843]

I thought it rather clear they are 64's.
The detail of which version of 64's is the real question IMO.

[vision 0]

Quote

I thought it rather clear they are 64's.
The detail of which version of 64's is the real question IMO.

Agreed, but this makes you wonder why the BBC claim T 72's

It shows they know nothing and will believe anything they are told/decide to claim if it fits their story they are pushing.

I do not believe this is a simple mistake. there are very few T72's in Ukraine... All T64's originated in Ukraine and are very common there.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27815441

Now the white phosphorus? There has been no discussion of that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLizHCJDB6c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68qmaUg5o4M#t=109