kallend 2,027 #1 April 30, 2014 Oklahoma botches an execution. www.nytimes.com/2014/04/30/us/oklahoma-executions.html?_r=0 An embarrassment in front of the civilized world. Why do these states insist on keeping company with Iran, N. Korea and the PRC?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #2 April 30, 2014 A comment from a friend of mine on Facebook this morning: "Yet again the United States puts itself in the same moral category as the proponents of sharia law as it spends nearly 45 minutes torturing a vile murderer to death in a judicially sanctioned and completely ballsed-up execution. When will the supporters of state sponsored death penalties realise that opposition to government servants and doctors killing healthy people is not in any way a cry in support of the murderers. Some Americans went to work yesterday and spent their shift preparing, and failing, to kill another human being. In the end his heart gave out. For sure an evil man is dead, but all of our humanity is a little less as a consequence." Couldn't have put it better myself. CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #3 April 30, 2014 If you take the time to see what he had done to his victims, you would know he deserved much worse... That being said, right now they are looking into the cause of the botched execution. The drugs are the same as used in other states and has a track record of working as designed. Preliminary reports are saying the second and third mixtures didn't make it into his blood system correctly because of vien failure. If this turns out to be the case, it wouldn't have mattered what drugs were used. I say bring back the gas chamber. "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #4 April 30, 2014 QED on multiple levels. Thanks for playing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #5 April 30, 2014 When I hear more about dirtbags botching a murder by either getting caught or being shot full of holes by their intended victims until they are a dead swiss cheese on slab in the morgue, I'll give your indigation a little (just a little) bit of credence. Until such time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #6 April 30, 2014 BoomerdogUntil such time... You will support American society at large bringing itself down to the same level as the dirtbags it prosecutes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #7 April 30, 2014 The it is obvious you make NO distinction between crime and justice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #8 April 30, 2014 BoomerdogThe it is obvious you make NO distinction between crime and justice. It is obvious you still beat your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #9 April 30, 2014 What about the distinction between justice and revenge? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #10 April 30, 2014 DanGWhat about the distinction between justice and revenge? And,.. What about the distinction between a decent society and indecent individuals? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #11 April 30, 2014 Jesus Christ, is it so difficult to strap them to a chair and use a humain killer (read cattle ) to the back of the head. It could be remotely controlled and being punched directly into the cerebellum, they could even have an open coffin after if so desired. Note.: I am only in favour of the death penalty if capitol murder is proven 1000% Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #12 April 30, 2014 The death penalty is an affront to the moral dignity and leadership that the US likes to project around the world. People like YOU are part of this affront.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #13 April 30, 2014 QuoteIt is obvious you still beat your wife. ROFLMAO! Is THAT all you got? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #14 April 30, 2014 I would, but John's post #12 pretty much sums it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #15 April 30, 2014 And once again I ask how is that those people that belive the State is completely inept at everything thing that they do , have no problem trusting them when it comes to executing it's citizens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #16 April 30, 2014 jgoose71If you take the time to see what he had done to his victims, you would know he deserved much worse... that's not the point of execution - it's not about what he 'deserves' or not. It's about removing the threat from society. That's what WE deserved your comment feeds the "all people want is revenge" comment - which is a silly tangent discussion tactic Okie screwed up - using drugs, etc and trying to make it 'palatable' to the public is a sop. IF we must execute, then it needs to direct and effective. Complex drug delivery system? chambers?....I don't see any of those being a practical and efficient way to do it. If we use a series of drugs, then they should be administered directly and each step of the process confirmed. When this stuff happens, suddenly the guillotine doesn't seem so brutal anymore. Or shots to the head. (private, no observers would be the way to go - it's carrying out a sentence, not putting on a show). (and no, the idea of closed vs open casket being indicative of cruel/unusual is a silly discussion, humane/typical should be strictly defined as quick/minimal pain) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #17 April 30, 2014 Andy9o8 ***What about the distinction between justice and revenge? And,.. What about the distinction between a decent society and indecent individuals? As long as the law still makes a distinction between murder and self defences, it's all good... "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #18 April 30, 2014 QuoteThe death penalty is an affront to the moral dignity and leadership that the US likes to project around the world. People like YOU are part of this affront. You're welcome to your opinion. Now here's mine. All too often we fail to make the distinction between forgiveness and justice. The two are clearly different. In breaking the law, some criminals legitimatley seek forgiveness but that does NOT mean justice will not be applied. No one can say they are accountable under the unspoken hope and veil that admitting their accountability will not exact some sanction. Not all homicides are equal. Homicide in war in accordance with the Geneva Convention is legal. Accidental homicides occur. The lone focus of my argument is MURDER; homicide WITH malice of forethought and it IS the ulitmate hate crime without explicitly stating the element of hate in the action. Many, including myself can wholeheatedly accept re-admittance to society for criminals who commit other crimes...even second degree murder. But in capital murder we are saying that the nature plus the elements involved in the crime are so evil, so heinous, the offender has gone over a line of which there is no return and to guarantee both a "no return" and recedivism they forfeit their life. Maybe too "unsophisticated" to your Ivory Towers thinking my friend but the fact is this; no executed murdrer has ever committed another murder. THAT's a 100% success rate! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #19 April 30, 2014 rehmwa ***If you take the time to see what he had done to his victims, you would know he deserved much worse... that's not the point of execution - it's not about what he 'deserves' or not. It's about removing the threat from society. That's what WE deserved your comment feeds the "all people want is revenge" comment - which is a silly tangent discussion tactic Your right of course. You have to understand that over here in Afghanistan executions take place with the use of about a 8" dull blade and a lot of sawing to the neck. It really is time for me to come home and re-assimilate into a normal society... Quote Okie screwed up - using drugs, etc and trying to make it 'palatable' to the public is a sop. IF we must execute, then it needs to direct and effective. Complex drug delivery system? chambers?....I don't see any of those being a practical and efficient way to do it. If we use a series of drugs, then they should be administered directly and each step of the process confirmed. When this stuff happens, suddenly the guillotine doesn't seem so brutal anymore. Or shots to the head. (private, no observers would be the way to go - it's carrying out a sentence, not putting on a show). (and no, the idea of closed vs open casket being indicative of cruel/unusual is a silly discussion, humane/typical should be strictly defined as quick/minimal pain) As far as the execution, my OP was accurate. We know the drugs they were using and they have been used successfully in the past. Preliminary reports are a bad delivery due to a burst vein. The lawsuit was for the source of the drugs. And I still like the idea of the gas chamber. If I ever found myself staring at the death penalty, that is how I would want to go. Look up Hydrogen Cyanide."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 803 #20 April 30, 2014 Vengeance! Get your vengeance here! We don't want civilized judgement, we just want more people dead! The more we kill, the less killing there will be! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #21 April 30, 2014 kallend Oklahoma botches an execution. www.nytimes.com/2014/04/30/us/oklahoma-executions.html?_r=0 An embarrassment in front of the civilized world. Why do these states insist on keeping company with Iran, N. Korea and the PRC? A fitting end to a man who shot a women with a shot gun and then watched as she was buried alive. So no embarrassing farce as I see it. Should have ended it with a bullet to the head. Bullet to the head that might be the ticket your looking for. Cheap and simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #22 April 30, 2014 Channman*** Oklahoma botches an execution. www.nytimes.com/2014/04/30/us/oklahoma-executions.html?_r=0 An embarrassment in front of the civilized world. Why do these states insist on keeping company with Iran, N. Korea and the PRC? A fitting end to a man who shot a women with a shot gun and then watched as she was buried alive. So no embarrassing farce as I see it. Should have ended it with a bullet to the head. Bullet to the head that might be the ticket your looking for. Cheap and simple. Not to mention when was the last time we hung someone from a crane in the town square? Only Kallend could compare a trial in Iran to a trial in the U.S. and say they are the same thing...."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #23 April 30, 2014 kallend The death penalty is an affront to the moral dignity and leadership that the US likes to project around the world. People like YOU are part of this affront. Can I get a hallelujah? What about an amen? Why do you have to bring "morals" into it? Seriously. That makes it religious in nature, and discussion with a religious person is pointless because he/she has ingrained dogma. And upon what are those morals based? The Bible? Or some individually defined sense of right and wrong? Seriously - what is the source? At least Bible Thumpers have a doctrinal source at which to point. I am not philosophically opposed to capital punishment. I think it should be reserved only for those who kill while incarcerated. And I think it should be human and inexpensive (why not bring back the gas chamber and fill it with nitrogen? A quick, painless death where mistakes just don't happen.) My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #24 April 30, 2014 Quotewhy not bring back the gas chamber Because that would make us look like Nazis rather than Iranians...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #25 April 30, 2014 jgoose71****** Oklahoma botches an execution. www.nytimes.com/2014/04/30/us/oklahoma-executions.html?_r=0 An embarrassment in front of the civilized world. Why do these states insist on keeping company with Iran, N. Korea and the PRC? A fitting end to a man who shot a women with a shot gun and then watched as she was buried alive. So no embarrassing farce as I see it. Should have ended it with a bullet to the head. Bullet to the head that might be the ticket your looking for. Cheap and simple. Not to mention when was the last time we hung someone from a crane in the town square? Only Kallend could compare a trial in Iran to a trial in the U.S. and say they are the same thing.... Its enough to make you want to jump from a plane. Many here on DZ.com are far apart on this issue just as many of our founders. But I always enjoyed reading from our founder fathers because they were far superior to thought and intellect than I. Thomas Jefferson had this to say concerning capital punishment through a letter to his friend Edward Pendleton. "The fantastical idea of virtue and the public good being a sufficient security to the state against the commission of crimes, which you say you have heard insisted on by some, I assure you was never mine. It is only the sanguinary hue of our penal laws which I meant to object to. Punishments I know are necessary, and I would provide them, strict and inflexible, but proportioned to the crime. Death might be inflicted for murder and perhaps for treason if you would take out of the description of treason all crimes which are not such in their nature. Rape, buggery &c. punish by castration. All other crimes by working on high roads, rivers, gallies &c. a certain time proportioned to the offence. But as this would be no punishment or change of condition to slaves (me miserum!) let them be sent to other countries. By these means we should be freed from the wickedness of the latter, and the former would be living monuments of public vengeance. Laws thus proportionate and mild should never be dispensed with. Let mercy be the character of the law-giver, but let the judge be a mere machine. The mercies of the law will be dispensed equally and impartially to every description of men; those of the judge, or of the executive power, will be the eccentric impulses of whimsical, capricious designing man." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
