The VA Scandal

[billvon 2,989]

>>He thinks something is bad. Hence, Obama.

>As opposed to "Obama . . . .

Exactly.

[jgoose71 0]

DanG

Quote

If this was Bush, your heads would be exploding by now and you know it.

I did happen under Bush, and you know it, too.

Yes, but he didn't try to hide it or spin it into something to carry on some kind of myth of how great he is.

He told Obama as he was coming into office that the VA had problems.

Once again, to Obama's credit, he did fund VA more highly than any other president. But all that went out the window when the VA tried to make him look good by covering up what a mess everything still was.

That said, I don't blame Obama for this one. But just like the presidents before him I expect him to be honest with us about what's going on. It's the lie that everything is OK that hurts.

To truly fix a problem, you have to acknowledge the problem. And covering it up never makes it better.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

and now for the partison SC portion of my post.

Wait a minute! I found the Democratic party's solution for our vets!!! It was right in front of me all along!!!! It sounds a lot like the Republican Healthcare plan as outlined by our good friend Alan Grayson!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-usmvYOPfco

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I like how under this subject capitalists become the biggest socialists.

The VA has been a big problem since the 70s according to most of you. Most of you signed up with the knowledge that the VA system was not good.

If this were any other subject, most of you complaining would ask questions about personal responsibility and/or taking responsibility for your own decisions.

[RonD1120 62]

SkyDekker

I like how under this subject capitalists become the biggest socialists.

The VA has been a big problem since the 70s according to most of you. Most of you signed up with the knowledge that the VA system was not good.

If this were any other subject, most of you complaining would ask questions about personal responsibility and/or taking responsibility for your own decisions.

For the record, I have always taken personal responsibility for my healthcare and have back up insurance. That insurance now costs me $139.66/mo more under Obamacare. And, it too carries the implied message, "Die quickly."

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

Quote

Yes, but he didn't try to hide it or spin it into something to carry on some kind of myth of how great he is.

How did he do that?

Quote

To truly fix a problem, you have to acknowledge the problem. And covering it up never makes it better.

I guess I'm not seeing the cover-up that has you concerned.

- Dan G

[kelpdiver 2]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Grav,

Quote

Uhhh..How about he's the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces?

Uh, how about that the VA is not part of DoD.

http://www.va.gov/explore/?gclid=CjgKEAjwnfGbBRDlxoHrl6uikyESJAD-nzCF8kXgyKtyWcDAg70PluLSQoVzdWEIqBG0c1QY5Wh4RvD_BwE

What part of how the US gov't is organized is that you do not understand?

Umm, surely you know that in the organization of our government, that the President is the head of the Executive branch which includes the VA? So GM's CiC remark is wrong, but the notion of ownership remains crystal clear.

He campaigned on the matter when it flared up around Walter Reed, and facing a similar explosion of anger, it will be interesting to see what he will do now that he's the one on the hot seat. Terminations looks to be in order.

[Gravitymaster 0]

This is exactly what will happen when the govt. takes over healthcare. Exactly!!

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Gravitymaster

This is exactly what will happen when the govt. takes over healthcare. Exactly!!

So you're saying all those veterans should just go and buy insurance on the private market?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Bolas 5]

GeorgiaDon

***This is exactly what will happen when the govt. takes over healthcare. Exactly!!

So you're saying all those veterans should just go and buy insurance on the private market?

Don

And the VA just pays for it? That's one option...

Certainly would be more in line with their name.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[quade 4]

jgoose71

I can't really blame Barrack Obama though. Everyone knew that the VA has been hosed up since the 70's. He has put more funds into the VA than any other president.

Emphasis mine.

Actually, the VA today is not the VA of the '70s. The VA today was created and signed into law during Reagan's term, although technically only took effect under Bush 41. Before that, it was essentially a disorganized mess of bills and catch-as-catch can offices going back to the Revolutionary war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Veterans_Affairs#History











(Reagan -- secret socialist -- probably never even realized it.)

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

quade

***I can't really blame Barrack Obama though. Everyone knew that the VA has been hosed up since the 70's. He has put more funds into the VA than any other president.

Emphasis mine.

Actually, the VA today is not the VA of the '70s. The VA today was created and signed into law during Reagan's term, although technically only took effect under Bush 41. Before that, it was essentially a disorganized mess of bills and catch-as-catch can offices going back to the Revolutionary war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Veterans_Affairs#History











(Reagan -- secret socialist -- probably never even realized it.)

Yet, you still want the govt. in charge of your healthcare?

[quade 4]

1) I believe people who need healthcare should be able to get it.

2) FFS, learn how the quote function works. It's not like you're a noob or mentally deficient.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

Hi kelp,

Quote

President is the head of the Executive branch which includes the VA

Where did I say he was not?

Grav was wrong in his position that being CiC has anything to do with the VA.

I stand by my post.

JerryBaumchen

[jgoose71 0]

DanG

Quote

Yes, but he didn't try to hide it or spin it into something to carry on some kind of myth of how great he is.

How did he do that?

Did you see his press conference? When you spend more time talking about how good you are rather than the problem hat hand, that is called spin.

I promise it will me more easy for you to recognise if and when a republican ever gets back into the whitehouse.

DanG

Quote

To truly fix a problem, you have to acknowledge the problem. And covering it up never makes it better.

I guess I'm not seeing the cover-up that has you concerned.

While this administration hasn't tried to cover up this scandal as it has the others (That's probably where your confusion is coming in) the covering up of the extremely long wait times for veterans is what got us here.

Point was covering up the problem didn't allow it to be fixed. It just got worse until it exploded and couldn't be hidden any more. 23 confirmed dead, up to 40 deaths under investigation.

I would say at point it has a higher body count than Sandy Hook.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Gravitymaster 0]

quade

1) I believe people who need healthcare should be able to get it.

2) FFS, learn how the quote function works. It's not like you're a noob or mentally deficient.

That's not what I asked you. Let's try it this way:

Given the long history of bureaucratic FU's at the VA, why do you thing Govt. run healthcare will be any better. If you don't think it will be any better, then why do you support it?

[quade 4]

I'm sorry you don't like my answer, but then again, I don't particularly like your question/assumptions based on my initial statement. I was simply clarifying the historical accuracy and for some reason you decided to change the subject to match your political agenda.

So . . . If you don't like my answer, I don't particularly give a crap.

My answer stands.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

JerryBaumchen

Hi kelp,

Quote

President is the head of the Executive branch which includes the VA

Where did I say he was not?

Grav was wrong in his position that being CiC has anything to do with the VA.

I stand by my post.

JerryBaumchen

Of course you do. No surprise there considering how you support the IRS targeting political enemies of the President, murdering American Citizen with no due process etc. NSA spying on American Citizens and in fact the leaders of other countries like Merkel etc. People who continue to support that are most of the problem. They are the enablers and we are paying a dear price.
So please pat yourself smugly on the back and take pleasure in every hair you split. Continue to blind yourself to what's been going down and the long term damage you are doing to all of our children's future.

[Gravitymaster 0]

quade

I'm sorry you don't like my answer, but then again, I don't particularly like your question/assumptions based on my initial statement. I was simply clarifying the historical accuracy and for some reason you decided to change the subject to match your political agenda.

So . . . If you don't like my answer, I don't particularly give a crap.

My answer stands.

It's no real surprise you don't want to answer the question. Believe me, I can understand exactly why.

[quade 4]

And it's no surprise you want to turn this into a discussion about something other than the actual subject of the thread.

Do you or do you not believe that people, in this case specifically veterans, who need healthcare should be able to get it?

If not, then why do you hate veterans?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

quade

And it's no surprise you want to turn this into a discussion about something other than the actual subject of the thread.

Do you or do you not believe that people, in this case specifically veterans, who need healthcare should be able to get it?

If not, then why do you hate veterans?

Yes, I think veterans should get healthcare. I'm just not so much an ideolog that it prevents me from admitting when it has become very apparent that the government shouldn't be managing it. Unlike some that we know.

Not that I expect you to answer, but do you or don't you have a high level of confidence that the government can properly manage a large healthcare system. And if you don't why do you support government run healthcare?

Edited to add: How does it make you feel that the Terrorists at Gitmo get better healthcare than American G.I.'s

[tkhayes 348]

Has anyone bothered to call and write their Congressmen and women about this? No, I did not think so.

Plenty of people, especially Congress itself, standing around bitching about something that they not only have the power to fix, but they have the duty to fix.

I am not holding my breath. If I hear Rubio rant about it one more time, I am going to the fucking moon.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Edited to add: How does it make you feel that the Terrorists at Gitmo get better healthcare than American G.I.'s

Sounds like the government is quite able to provide good health care then.

[Amazon 7]

tkhayes

Has anyone bothered to call and write their Congressmen and women about this? No, I did not think so.

Plenty of people, especially Congress itself, standing around bitching about something that they not only have the power to fix, but they have the duty to fix.

I am not holding my breath. If I hear Rubio rant about it one more time, I am going to the fucking moon.

You have to remember... and take note of the FACT that our Patriotic GOP congressional members has shot down any funding for veterans over and over.... their usual treatment after their hollow mouthing of the words "thank you for your service" homilies where they talked the talk.. while refusing to walk the walk.

No jobs for vets allowed.... less funding for the VA...... way to show your support

( no not you TK)

[grimmie 186]

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/05/21/when-fox-news-shrugged-over-a-veterans-care-sca/199406

[billvon 2,989]

>Edited to add: How does it make you feel that the Terrorists at Gitmo get better
>healthcare than American G.I.'s

Given that at least one right winger here considers many wounded US veterans to be siding with the enemy - sounds like he'd support that wholeheartedly.