The VA Scandal

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

Hi Grav,

#1

Quote

you support the IRS targeting political enemies

#2

Quote

murdering American Citizen with no due process

#3

Quote

NSA spying on American Citizens

You have a serious problem.

Where have I ever made statements such as those?

JerryBaumchen

PS) #1) I am opposed to this by either party, always have been.

#2) If they have taken up arms & joined with our enemies, then I consider them the enemy and fair game.

#3) I have always been opposed to nearly the entirety of the Patriot Act since Day 1.

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

Edited to add: How does it make you feel that the Terrorists at Gitmo get better healthcare than American G.I.'s

When wwas Guantanamo privatised?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Amazon 7]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Grav,

#1

Quote

you support the IRS targeting political enemies

#2***murdering American Citizen with no due process

#3

Quote

NSA spying on American Citizens

You have a serious problem.

Where have I ever made statements such as those?

JerryBaumchen

PS) #1) I am opposed to this by either party, always have been.

#2) If they have taken up arms & joined with our enemies, then I consider them the enemy and fair game.

#3) I have always been opposed to nearly the entirety of the Patriot Act since Day 1.

To use a term made famous by the Bloviating Pilonidal Cyst... "ditto"

[Gravitymaster 0]

billvon

>Edited to add: How does it make you feel that the Terrorists at Gitmo get better
>healthcare than American G.I.'s

Given that at least one right winger here considers many wounded US veterans to be siding with the enemy - sounds like he'd support that wholeheartedly.

I guess that depends on your definition of "Enemy".

[billvon 2,989]

>I guess that depends on your definition of "Enemy".

You'd have to ask him.

[Gravitymaster 0]

billvon

>I guess that depends on your definition of "Enemy".

You'd have to ask him.

I'm pretty sure it's quite different than yours.

[billvon 2,989]

>I'm pretty sure it's quite different than yours.

I am sure it is. I don't consider republicans (or democrats) enemies of the US. Indeed, the two parties are quite similar overall.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>I'm pretty sure it's quite different than yours.

I am sure it is. I don't consider republicans (or democrats) enemies of the US. Indeed, the two parties are quite similar overall.

Agreed
However
There are those within these parties who are

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[BartsDaddy 7]

billvon

>I'm pretty sure it's quite different than yours.

I am sure it is. I don't consider republicans (or democrats) enemies of the US. Indeed, the two parties are quite similar overall.

Yes the two parties are quite similar,but I do sometimes wonder how much the politicians are looking out for their own gain rather then the countries good. And when they act in that manner I would conclude they are not a Allie to the country.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[jclalor 12]

Amazon

***Has anyone bothered to call and write their Congressmen and women about this? No, I did not think so.

Plenty of people, especially Congress itself, standing around bitching about something that they not only have the power to fix, but they have the duty to fix.

I am not holding my breath. If I hear Rubio rant about it one more time, I am going to the fucking moon.

You have to remember... and take note of the FACT that our Patriotic GOP congressional members has shot down any funding for veterans over and over.... their usual treatment after their hollow mouthing of the words "thank you for your service" homilies where they talked the talk.. while refusing to walk the walk.

No jobs for vets allowed.... less funding for the VA...... way to show your support

( no not you TK)

Speaking of Rubio and the gang...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk5ZJ6uVO9Y&sns=em

[Gravitymaster 0]

jclalor

******Has anyone bothered to call and write their Congressmen and women about this? No, I did not think so.

Plenty of people, especially Congress itself, standing around bitching about something that they not only have the power to fix, but they have the duty to fix.

I am not holding my breath. If I hear Rubio rant about it one more time, I am going to the fucking moon.

You have to remember... and take note of the FACT that our Patriotic GOP congressional members has shot down any funding for veterans over and over.... their usual treatment after their hollow mouthing of the words "thank you for your service" homilies where they talked the talk.. while refusing to walk the walk.

No jobs for vets allowed.... less funding for the VA...... way to show your support

( no not you TK)

Speaking of Rubio and the gang...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk5ZJ6uVO9Y&sns=em

What govt. programs are you willing to reduce so there is money to commit to our Vets?

[jclalor 12]

Gravitymaster

*********Has anyone bothered to call and write their Congressmen and women about this? No, I did not think so.

Plenty of people, especially Congress itself, standing around bitching about something that they not only have the power to fix, but they have the duty to fix.

I am not holding my breath. If I hear Rubio rant about it one more time, I am going to the fucking moon.

You have to remember... and take note of the FACT that our Patriotic GOP congressional members has shot down any funding for veterans over and over.... their usual treatment after their hollow mouthing of the words "thank you for your service" homilies where they talked the talk.. while refusing to walk the walk.

No jobs for vets allowed.... less funding for the VA...... way to show your support

( no not you TK)

Speaking of Rubio and the gang...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk5ZJ6uVO9Y&sns=emut to dry

What govt. programs are you willing to reduce so there is money to commit to our Vets?

That's nice, it seems like lately there's never been an issue of putting wars on the credit card, while simultaneously giving out huge tax breaks.

Wasn't there once a time in this country when paying a war tax was considered Patriotic? If your not prepared to pay the complete cost of going to combat, perhaps that war is unnecessary.

[Gravitymaster 0]

jclalor

************Has anyone bothered to call and write their Congressmen and women about this? No, I did not think so.

Plenty of people, especially Congress itself, standing around bitching about something that they not only have the power to fix, but they have the duty to fix.

I am not holding my breath. If I hear Rubio rant about it one more time, I am going to the fucking moon.

You have to remember... and take note of the FACT that our Patriotic GOP congressional members has shot down any funding for veterans over and over.... their usual treatment after their hollow mouthing of the words "thank you for your service" homilies where they talked the talk.. while refusing to walk the walk.

No jobs for vets allowed.... less funding for the VA...... way to show your support

( no not you TK)

Speaking of Rubio and the gang...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk5ZJ6uVO9Y&sns=emut to dry

What govt. programs are you willing to reduce so there is money to commit to our Vets?

That's nice, it seems like lately there's never been an issue of putting wars on the credit card, while simultaneously giving out huge tax breaks.

Wasn't there once a time in this country when paying a war tax was considered Patriotic? If your not prepared to pay the complete cost of going to combat, perhaps that war is unnecessary.

So your solution is too raise taxes and spend more money?

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Quote

So your solution is too raise taxes and spend more money?

So your solution is to start wars with no intention of paying for them?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Gravitymaster 0]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

So your solution is too raise taxes and spend more money?

So your solution is to start wars with no intention of paying for them?

Don

Pretty stupid statement, Don. Show me where I ever said anything even remotely close to that.

[Amazon 7]

Gravitymaster

***

Quote

So your solution is too raise taxes and spend more money?

So your solution is to start wars with no intention of paying for them?

Don

Pretty stupid statement, Don. Show me where I ever said anything even remotely close to that.


http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=402438#402438

Gravitymaster (D License)

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Registered: Mar 4, 2001
Posts: 13070

Mar 2, 2003, 11:37 PM
Post #19 of 30 (363 views)
Shortcut

Re: [FallRate] GWB rebate v. war budget ... odd coincidence [In reply to] Quote | Reply




In reply to:

.

Quote

Projected to be the largest in History? That would make sense...IF we go to war.

During WWII the cost of military spending approached half of the US GNP. This was easily accomodated at the time considering that prior to the war the US Federal Government operated with very little reliance on the Federal Income Tax, which prior to the war applied to only 5% of the population. So by expanding this tax, the gap in spending was easily bridged. As our government has become accustomed to having this revenue during times of peace, it would make sense that another large scale war would cause serious difficulties in balancing the budget.

And which party has controlled Congress for the vast majority of time since this broad expansion of the Federal Income Tax? Anyone?

"Hmm?".... indeed!

FallRate

I also get a kick out of those who whine about the cost of going to war and how much the long term cost will be.
After the Gulf War in 1991, 80% of the 80 Billion the U.S. spent was reimbursed by Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
Remember, Iraq is not without natural resources. I'm sure going to enjoy filling up my SUV with that $.49 per gallon Iraqi oil.

Hmmmm......... I kinda like that idea.Cool

[jclalor 12]

Amazon

******

Quote

So your solution is too raise taxes and spend more money?

So your solution is to start wars with no intention of paying for them?

Don

Pretty stupid statement, Don. Show me where I ever said anything even remotely close to that.


http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=402438#402438

Gravitymaster (D License)

United States Send a Private MessagePM Add to FriendsFriend








Registered: Mar 4, 2001
Posts: 13070

Mar 2, 2003, 11:37 PM
Post #19 of 30 (363 views)
Shortcut

Re: [FallRate] GWB rebate v. war budget ... odd coincidence [In reply to] Quote | Reply




In reply to:

.

Quote

Projected to be the largest in History? That would make sense...IF we go to war.

During WWII the cost of military spending approached half of the US GNP. This was easily accomodated at the time considering that prior to the war the US Federal Government operated with very little reliance on the Federal Income Tax, which prior to the war applied to only 5% of the population. So by expanding this tax, the gap in spending was easily bridged. As our government has become accustomed to having this revenue during times of peace, it would make sense that another large scale war would cause serious difficulties in balancing the budget.

And which party has controlled Congress for the vast majority of time since this broad expansion of the Federal Income Tax? Anyone?

"Hmm?".... indeed!

FallRate

I also get a kick out of those who whine about the cost of going to war and how much the long term cost will be.
After the Gulf War in 1991, 80% of the 80 Billion the U.S. spent was reimbursed by Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
Remember, Iraq is not without natural resources. I'm sure going to enjoy filling up my SUV with that $.49 per gallon Iraqi oil.

Hmmmm......... I kinda like that idea.Cool

In defense of Gravity, he doesn't really seemed concerned about payimg for the war then either, but rather reaping the benifits in the form of $.49 per gallon Iraqi gas. All the dead and maimed are but a small price to pay if you can fill up the SUV for $10 bucks.

Greeted as liberators, the Iraqis will pay all the cost, and we will stabilize the Middle East... To be young and naive again.

[Amazon 7]

Right.. why raise taxes for W's Excellent Adventure... The Iraqis and all that oil is going to pay for it...that worked out for all of us didn't it...

Then again.. the real cost of W and the PNAC war will still be with us for a long long time. The 4489 who died there... are being joined daily by more of their brothers and sisters in Arms.
We are seeing the same thing now just as many thousands more than those 58,261 who are on the wall are but a small percentage of those who did who served during Vietnam, and who died in the Nam and did not realize it till years later.

[Gravitymaster 0]

jclalor

*********

Quote

So your solution is too raise taxes and spend more money?

So your solution is to start wars with no intention of paying for them?

Don

Pretty stupid statement, Don. Show me where I ever said anything even remotely close to that.


http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=402438#402438

Gravitymaster (D License)

United States Send a Private MessagePM Add to FriendsFriend








Registered: Mar 4, 2001
Posts: 13070

Mar 2, 2003, 11:37 PM
Post #19 of 30 (363 views)
Shortcut

Re: [FallRate] GWB rebate v. war budget ... odd coincidence [In reply to] Quote | Reply




In reply to:

.

Quote

Projected to be the largest in History? That would make sense...IF we go to war.

During WWII the cost of military spending approached half of the US GNP. This was easily accomodated at the time considering that prior to the war the US Federal Government operated with very little reliance on the Federal Income Tax, which prior to the war applied to only 5% of the population. So by expanding this tax, the gap in spending was easily bridged. As our government has become accustomed to having this revenue during times of peace, it would make sense that another large scale war would cause serious difficulties in balancing the budget.

And which party has controlled Congress for the vast majority of time since this broad expansion of the Federal Income Tax? Anyone?

"Hmm?".... indeed!

FallRate

I also get a kick out of those who whine about the cost of going to war and how much the long term cost will be.
After the Gulf War in 1991, 80% of the 80 Billion the U.S. spent was reimbursed by Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
Remember, Iraq is not without natural resources. I'm sure going to enjoy filling up my SUV with that $.49 per gallon Iraqi oil.

Hmmmm......... I kinda like that idea.Cool

In defense of Gravity, he doesn't really seemed concerned about payimg for the war then either, but rather reaping the benifits in the form of $.49 per gallon Iraqi gas. All the dead and maimed are but a small price to pay if you can fill up the SUV for $10 bucks.

Greeted as liberators, the Iraqis will pay all the cost, and we will stabilize the Middle East... To be young and naive again.

I accepted long ago the intellect and motivations of some on here. I just quietly laugh at their weak attempts to stretch the truth and split a hair.
Never have I ever indicated I did not support our troops or wish we would not pay for their healthcare. Anyone who thinks I said that can kiss my ass.

[BIGUN 1,296]

tkhayes

Has anyone bothered to call and write their Congressmen and women about this? No, I did not think so.

I did. And, sit on several local high-level Veteran Boards & Councils. Those where the elected either show up or send someone from their staff each time. And, we are very active. We don't rant, but make informative presentations. The result on this was: http://bridenstine.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/congressman-jim-bridenstine-votes-to-improve-va-accountability-calls-for

Some time ago when ACA was starting; I was vocal about if the President wants to provide healthcare for all Americans; fix the VA system first and use that as your model.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Amazon 7]

Gravitymaster

************

Quote

So your solution is too raise taxes and spend more money?

So your solution is to start wars with no intention of paying for them?

Don

Pretty stupid statement, Don. Show me where I ever said anything even remotely close to that.


http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=402438#402438

Gravitymaster (D License)

United States Send a Private MessagePM Add to FriendsFriend








Registered: Mar 4, 2001
Posts: 13070

Mar 2, 2003, 11:37 PM
Post #19 of 30 (363 views)
Shortcut

Re: [FallRate] GWB rebate v. war budget ... odd coincidence [In reply to] Quote | Reply




In reply to:

.

Quote

Projected to be the largest in History? That would make sense...IF we go to war.

During WWII the cost of military spending approached half of the US GNP. This was easily accomodated at the time considering that prior to the war the US Federal Government operated with very little reliance on the Federal Income Tax, which prior to the war applied to only 5% of the population. So by expanding this tax, the gap in spending was easily bridged. As our government has become accustomed to having this revenue during times of peace, it would make sense that another large scale war would cause serious difficulties in balancing the budget.

And which party has controlled Congress for the vast majority of time since this broad expansion of the Federal Income Tax? Anyone?

"Hmm?".... indeed!

FallRate

I also get a kick out of those who whine about the cost of going to war and how much the long term cost will be.
After the Gulf War in 1991, 80% of the 80 Billion the U.S. spent was reimbursed by Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
Remember, Iraq is not without natural resources. I'm sure going to enjoy filling up my SUV with that $.49 per gallon Iraqi oil.

Hmmmm......... I kinda like that idea.Cool

In defense of Gravity, he doesn't really seemed concerned about payimg for the war then either, but rather reaping the benifits in the form of $.49 per gallon Iraqi gas. All the dead and maimed are but a small price to pay if you can fill up the SUV for $10 bucks.

Greeted as liberators, the Iraqis will pay all the cost, and we will stabilize the Middle East... To be young and naive again.

I accepted long ago the intellect and motivations of some on here. I just quietly laugh at their weak attempts to stretch the truth and split a hair.
Never have I ever indicated I did not support our troops or wish we would not pay for their healthcare. Anyone who thinks I said that can kiss my ass.

Quote

So your solution is to start wars with no intention of paying for them?

I think your post on the Iraq war fits that you supported W and his Administrations excellent little adventure..... as well as your understanding of exactly WHY the US was taken there... CHEAP OIL.

Going to war has consequences for the "little people" ... those who are tasked with going to war while the CHICKENHAWKS stay at home and attend patriotic rallies while making millions and mouthing cute little homilies about " supporting the troops". Supporting the troops entails supporting those whose lives are destroyed in the process...4000+ died.... but many times that number have been wounded and DESERVE the care they were promised FOR LIFE.

The fact that this country has all kinds of organizations like the Wounded Warrior Project is a disgrace to our country. This COUNTRY and especially all those assholes who thought going to a war was a cool idea for regime change.. or for oil...or to stop the terrorists in IRAQ.... that was not needed in the first place, is treating the returning veterans in a despicable manner in far too many cases. That extends to WHO you are voting for... you know.. the ones who will not vote FOR a veterans jobs bill... or for funding for the VA.... IT IS DISGRACEFUL.

[jclalor 12]

Quote

The fact that this country has all kinds of organizations like the Wounded Warrior Project is a disgrace to our country. This COUNTRY and especially all those assholes who thought going to a war was a cool idea for regime change.. or for oil...or to stop the terrorists in IRAQ.... that was not needed in the first place, is treating the returning veterans in a despicable manner in far too many cases. That extends to WHO you are voting for... you know.. the ones who will not vote FOR a veterans jobs bill... or for funding for the VA.... IT IS DISGRACEFUL.

I've always though the same thing, while WWP does a great job, what a disgrace that it's even needed, but you know how some of that 47% is. one minute their heroes, the next minute their nothing but mooches.

I thought this country had learned it's lesson after Vietnam.

[Amazon 7]

jclalor

Quote

The fact that this country has all kinds of organizations like the Wounded Warrior Project is a disgrace to our country. This COUNTRY and especially all those assholes who thought going to a war was a cool idea for regime change.. or for oil...or to stop the terrorists in IRAQ.... that was not needed in the first place, is treating the returning veterans in a despicable manner in far too many cases. That extends to WHO you are voting for... you know.. the ones who will not vote FOR a veterans jobs bill... or for funding for the VA.... IT IS DISGRACEFUL.

I've always though the same thing, while WWP does a great job, what a disgrace that it's even needed, but you know how some of that 47% is. one minute their heroes, the next minute their nothing but mooches.

I thought this country had learned it's lesson after Vietnam.

Nah.. they are still brutalizing and killing Vietnam Vets..

http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/05/25/68182.htm

SANTA ANA, Calif. (CN) - After waiting for 4 hours for dialysis with a shunt in his arm, a veteran told a Veterans Administration hospital he was leaving, whereupon VA police beat the hell out of him and stomped on his carotid artery, giving him a stroke that killed him, and they lied to his wife about it, the widow claims in court.

Jonathan Montano died on June 11, 2011, after VA police brutalized him at the VA hospital in Loma Linda on May 25 that year, his widow claims in the lawsuit.
Jonathan, who was 65, had a shunt put in his arm by the VA hospital staff that day, and waited with his wife for treatment "for approximately four hours, without being treated," Norma Montano says in the complaint.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Never have I ever indicated I did not support our troops. So Kiss My Ass.

When is Obama going to Fire Shinseki?

[Amazon 7]

Gravitymaster

Never have I ever indicated I did not support our troops. So Kiss My Ass.

When is Obama going to Fire Shinseki?

Want to bet that you voted for some of the people who voted against the Veterans jobs Bills??? How about the representatives you voted for who voted to CUT VA funding???

Support for veterans means a bit more than just talking the pleasantries and homilies.

Actions as they say.. speak louder than words.