What's everyone's opinion on convicted and registered sex offenders being TI's?

[Shotgun 1]

promise5

Actually in all the cases being a TI is not their main source of employment so I doubt they would end up in a bread line. Publicly outing them in some way would only hurt the sport itself. Also,what purpose would it do to "out" them publicly. They should be able to skydive if they choose to. "outing" them accomplishes nothing. Carefully researching each case and then taking it to the DZO,USPA and presenting the facts.
I'll ask again is skydiving really that desperate for TI's that it needs Sex offenders to represent the sport to the public.
Pissed off?No
But disgusted by it? Yes,very much so.

OK, I'll chime in again.

I suppose I can understand why you wouldn't want to post examples on here, but it's difficult to discuss the topic when it seems like nothing more than a hypothetical question.

Anyhow, I was finally able to find an example through a general web search. I would say this particular person (convicted rapist) has been "publicly outed" because it was a highly publicized case (the case had nothing to do with skydiving, but he is now an instructor). What I can gather from random web comments is that this does not reflect on the sport of skydiving itself, but rather on the particular person and the dz he works for.

I don't think that "skydiving" is desperate for TI's or wanting sex offenders to represent the sport. But apparently some dz's (at least this one) will hire a person either because they're ok with the person's history or because they don't do background checks.

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

promise5

There is none ?
You have done the research to prove there isn't.
Like I stated earlier I deal in reality. When I had this discussion with my friend/friends to begin with there already was a reality in place. I'm sorry but even though a few are close friends of mine I still didn't take their word. I did my own homework, as I would hope anyone would do.

So, I wonder how many convicted sexual offenders who are on the Megan's Law Registry, no matter what tier they've been classified, who are TIs have read this thread or who've been made aware of the existence of this thread on DZ.com? I highly doubt it sent any of them underground.

I'm all about burying these motherfuckers, but sadly, unless a DZOs kid, wife or husband for that matter is brutalized by someone on the national registry where the information was literally at their fingertips at the time of hire, I doubt it'll become a USPA requirement.

I wish I had your youthful enthusiasm.

Always be kinder than you feel.

[promise5 17]

I know. It hasn't sent them anywhere. The only thing I've gotten is a mocking email that nothing will be done.

I'm not discouraged,and neither are others. It's only when no one stands up and says anything that people like that win.

One small step at a time.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[Shotgun 1]

Oh, and I am still unable to find an actual example of anyone who has been put on the sex offender registry because of public urination. I find a lot of articles claiming that there are people on the registry for this reason, but not a single one that gives an example of an actual person. The closest thing I've found is a forum where a college guy was saying that he has been arrested twice for public urination and that a cop told him if he got arrested a third time, he could possibly have to register as a sex offender.

Not saying it hasn't happened, but I am curious to find a real story of someone that it has happened to.

[promise5 17]

If you looked deeper you might not believe what you find.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[Shotgun 1]

Do you have any suggestions for where to find more information?

[Coreece 190]

There seems to be an "odd" passive/aggressive tension among the women in this thread...

It's sad that political correctness in the world today suppresses the right of raw natured women to engage in an all out cat fight...

...and for that, I blame Quade.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[normiss 800]

Yet again I question why.

[normiss 800]

"Raw sex offender cat fights"

Seriously???
Are you drinking again?
Spewing bullshit that makes no sense, endless bible quotes and preaching, threats against other posters, then you send me a cryptic PM with this title??
Dud, what the fuck is wrong with you AGAIN?
Did you actually expect me to even open a message with that as a title?

Good luck with your journey.
Please stop messaging me.

[Coreece 190]

You need to lighten up...

All I did was ask you a simple question...Jeeze.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[stayhigh 2]

How is it so hard for people who had simple DUI to get a TI rating

and yet registered sex offender can get the rating??

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[quade 4]

stayhigh

How is it so hard for people who had simple DUI to get a TI rating

Item 18v of the FAA 3rd Class Medical. Even at that a single DUI is probably not a disqualifying event (there may be special circumstances). Two in a three year period or three ever . . . now you've got a disqualification. This might be able to be appealed, but good luck with that.

There is no such "check" on the form for "registered sex offender." Nor should there be since the 3rd Class Medical is not exclusively used for TIs, but is a generic medical for "airmen" which would include almost anyone who even flies planes solo. Light sport and ultra-lights exempt.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[turtlespeed 220]

quade

***How is it so hard for people who had simple DUI to get a TI rating

Item 18v of the FAA 3rd Class Medical. Even at that a single DUI is probably not a disqualifying event (there may be special circumstances). Two in a three year period or three ever . . . now you've got a disqualification. This might be able to be appealed, but good luck with that.

There is no such "check" on the form for "registered sex offender." Nor should there be since the 3rd Class Medical is not exclusively used for TIs, but is a generic medical for "airmen" which would include almost anyone who even flies planes solo. Light sport and ultra-lights exempt.

I was just looking at the thread title . . . The OP wants opinions.

My OPINION is that sex offenders should not be TIs.

What is yours?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 4]

Quote

My OPINION is that sex offenders should not be TIs.

What is yours?

I gave my OPINION on my very first post, which is the second post in this entire thread.

Why did it take you so long to catch up?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[stayhigh 2]

Should not be TI at all.

You did your crime and you fucking pay for it for the rest of the life. Sucks but too bad, next time think twice before you get all pervy.

There are thousands of potential TI with clean record, why hire this guy??

This is how you get thrown back in the system. You get a record,you can't get hired, now you have to steal in order to eat, now you are going back into jail.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[turtlespeed 220]

quade

Quote

My OPINION is that sex offenders should not be TIs.

What is yours?

I gave my OPINION on my very first post, which is the second post in this entire thread.

Why did it take you so long to catch up?

I'm plenty caught up.

Why can't you give a straight answer?

Quote

I think I'm glad I'm not in a position where it would be my responsibility to either hire or not hire the person.

I'm certain there are some who would make a blanket statement one way or the other, but I think I'd have to look at the individual case, talk to the person and then decide if it was worth the risk to my business.

Fortunately, as I said before, I'll never have to know.

NOWHERE in that is your opinion of whether or not a sex offender should be allowed to be a TI.

All there is, really, is a cop out.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Shotgun 1]

I don't think it's a cop-out to not give a simple yes or no answer. He said if it was his decision, he would look at the individual case. And I tend to agree that that's the best way to deal with it. (Similar to people who have DUI's on record, as someone else mentioned.)

[promise5 17]

So your saying the ONLY job a sex offender could get was as a TI? Seems odd that he could afford all the courses and equipment and jumps that are required before becoming a TI.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[Andy9o8 2]

stayhigh

Should not be TI at all.

You did your crime and you fucking pay for it for the rest of the life. Sucks but too bad, next time think twice before you get all pervy.

There are thousands of potential TI with clean record, why hire this guy??

This is how you get thrown back in the system. You get a record,you can't get hired, now you have to steal in order to eat, now you are going back into jail.

I'm sympathetic to your point. But to play devil's advocate, that's the problem which historically has been faced by ALL ex-cons convicted of just about ALL crimes since the advent of "permanent criminal records": the criminal record follows the ex-offender for the rest of his life, making prospective employers less willing to hire him, leading to the vicious cycle you note.

[promise5 17]

I'm still stumped how this applies to bring a TI?

Unless, the TI took a student loan out,maybe a grant then used it to pay for all his equipment,courses and jumps just so he could get a job as a TI then committed a sex crime that got him on the list.

So after serving his time etc. the ONLY job he could get was as a TI? Which he could get immediately because he wouldn't need to be recertified or anything?

Interesting.

Not trying to be offensive. But come on!! This if he doesn't get to work as a TI he'll end up back in jail because he can't fond any work just doesn't fly.
Come on this isn't a cheap sport it costs for equipment,courses and jumps.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[DanG 1]

Quote

I'm sympathetic to your point. But to play devil's advocate, that's the problem which historically has been faced by ALL ex-cons convicted of just about ALL crimes since the advent of "permanent criminal records": the criminal record follows the ex-offender for the rest of his life, making prospective employers less willing to hire him, leading to the vicious cycle you note.

It's even harder for sex offenders. They can't live near schools, playgrounds, etc. even if their crime was not against children. The restrictions got so bad in Miami that the only place registered sex offenders could live was under a highway overpass. And they couldn't move to another city because that would violate their probation.

I'm not condoning sex crimes in any way, but if society wants to remove those people permanently, then they need to be sentenced to life without parole. Giving someone five years, but then not letting them rejoin society in any meaningful way doesn't give them any incentive to reform themselves.

- Dan G

[Andy9o8 2]

I fully agree.

[stayhigh 2]

They should be thankful for the fact that we don't cut their balls off.


If there is no heavy repercussion who is going to not rape/steal/kill someone like a savage animal???

It is because of these rules, laws, repercussion human beings can keep things civil.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[quade 4]

stayhigh

If there is no heavy repercussion who is going to not rape/steal/kill someone like a savage animal???

It is because of these rules, laws, repercussion human beings can keep things civil.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this is one of the least well thought out arguments people ever make about such topics.

What it implies is, and this applies especially to the person attempting to make the argument, is that were it not for harsh punishment, the person making the argument would, in fact, be a murderer/molester/rapist. The ONLY thing keeping him from doing it is the fear of severe punishment.

I'm almost 100% certain that's not what they mean, but it's the logical conclusion to their argument.

No. Most murderer/molester/rapists are not held back by fear of severe punishment. There is something wrong with the wiring of their brains.

MOST people aren't murderer/molester/rapists and it has nothing whatsoever to do with severe punishment. MOST people understand that these things are universally immoral acts and should simply not do them for the sake of humanity alone.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Coreece 190]

DanG

Quote

I'm sympathetic to your point. But to play devil's advocate, that's the problem which historically has been faced by ALL ex-cons convicted of just about ALL crimes since the advent of "permanent criminal records": the criminal record follows the ex-offender for the rest of his life, making prospective employers less willing to hire him, leading to the vicious cycle you note.

It's even harder for sex offenders. They can't live near schools, playgrounds, etc. even if their crime was not against children. The restrictions got so bad in Miami that the only place registered sex offenders could live was under a highway overpass. And they couldn't move to another city because that would violate their probation.

I'm not condoning sex crimes in any way, but if society wants to remove those people permanently, then they need to be sentenced to life without parole. Giving someone five years, but then not letting them rejoin society in any meaningful way doesn't give them any incentive to reform themselves.

Given the impetuous nature of some people here, (e.g, normiss) I can understand why you'd actually feel the need to give a disclaimer of not condoning sex crimes, but surely you don't actually believe that either of the two extremes you've posted represent the majority of sex crimes/criminals, do you?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...