rehmwa 2 #251 June 7, 2014 billvon>"Pussy traitors who leave their post in violation of the UCMJ and their general orders left behind or dead" Yep, that works. Who else is on the list of soldiers right wingers would leave behind? Brain-dead traitors who support Obama? Gay soldiers who bring disrespect to the entire institution? Criminal tax evaders who don't belong in the military to begin with? Sloppy morons who don't even follow the rules of military decorum? Once you decide that there are US soldiers worth saving and others who aren't, you can have all kinds of lists, and can abandon a wide variety of soldiers who you dislike. ABDSOLUTELY - I agree - we go get our own, and then deal with misconduct and crimes 'in house'. We don't take the morally corrupt and lazy way by looking away letting others do our 'dirty work' however - it's completely naive to think that this is a partisan right wing only issue. Left wingers would LOVE to "decide that there are US soldiers worth saving and others who aren't, you can have all kinds of lists, and can abandon a wide variety of soldiers who you dislike". the only difference is righties would try to rationalize a 'false' morality to their terrible choice. lefties would do it on a whim. Lefty policy is based on putting people into little arbitrary groups and showing favoritism and spite based on their moods of the day. this is right up their alley - just pushing their favoritism up a notch to who lives and who dies. But both parties even do that a bit now already, don't they? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #252 June 7, 2014 jclalorJust out of idol curiosity;. like this guy's idol curiosity? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #253 June 7, 2014 rehmwa***Just out of idol curiosity;. like this guy's idol curiosity? Touché Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #254 June 7, 2014 If only... http://www.westernjournalism.com/judge-napolitano-obama-aided-abetted-enemy/Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #255 June 7, 2014 RonD1120If only... http://www.westernjournalism.com/judge-napolitano-obama-aided-abetted-enemy/ It I'll never happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #256 June 7, 2014 GeorgiaDonQuoteYou're more concerned about the welfare of known terrorists than you are a U.S, Marine being held in a Mexican jail? I haven't seen where their own country has done anything until now to get them freed. The State Dept. has basically turned their back on that Marine. I'm having a hard time with the logic here. So Chuck, do you believe that only Marines should be free to go into other countries and violate their laws with impunity, or does that "right" apply to all Americans? How would you feel about foreigners who come into the US, violate our laws, then claim immunity because they served in their country's military? Should we give a pass to all those illegal immigrants you're so concerned about, if they can prove they served in the Mexican military in the past? Don That is not at all what I am saying. What I am saying is, this country 'rescued' a soldier who DESERTED... why not the Marine in that Mexican jail. The guy screwed-up, yes but good lord, where is the sense? I guess, folks who never screw-up wouldn't understand. Where is the equality? I thought that this country did all they could to help Americans in a jam in some other country. Lotta talk outa both sides of their collective mouth. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #257 June 7, 2014 rehmwa***>"Pussy traitors who leave their post in violation of the UCMJ and their general orders left behind or dead" Yep, that works. Who else is on the list of soldiers right wingers would leave behind? Brain-dead traitors who support Obama? Gay soldiers who bring disrespect to the entire institution? Criminal tax evaders who don't belong in the military to begin with? Sloppy morons who don't even follow the rules of military decorum? Once you decide that there are US soldiers worth saving and others who aren't, you can have all kinds of lists, and can abandon a wide variety of soldiers who you dislike. ABDSOLUTELY - I agree - we go get our own, and then deal with misconduct and crimes 'in house'. We don't take the morally corrupt and lazy way by looking away letting others do our 'dirty work' however - it's completely naive to think that this is a partisan right wing only issue. Left wingers would LOVE to "decide that there are US soldiers worth saving and others who aren't, you can have all kinds of lists, and can abandon a wide variety of soldiers who you dislike". the only difference is righties would try to rationalize a 'false' morality to their terrible choice. lefties would do it on a whim. Lefty policy is based on putting people into little arbitrary groups and showing favoritism and spite based on their moods of the day. this is right up their alley - just pushing their favoritism up a notch to who lives and who dies. But both parties even do that a bit now already, don't they? I like that! Take care of our own. If, the man has a mental problem... get him home and get him care and help. To let him rot in a Mexican jail till his family is flat broke is criminal. You bet! Get him back this side of the border and handle it in house. Yessir! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #258 June 7, 2014 QuoteI like that! Take care of our own. If, the man has a mental problem... get him home and get him care and help. To let him rot in a Mexican jail till his family is flat broke is criminal. You bet! Get him back this side of the border and handle it in house. Yessir! Does anyone on this board or anyone at all outside the government know what is actually being done? I doubt it. I really do suspect that the Department of State are taking the proper channels to bring this man home. I know, some believe they should go in with guns blazing. However, this is a delicate situation. To piss them off would be the end of this Marine. Some folks should really bite their tongues and just shut up (Fox news.)"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,490 #259 June 7, 2014 Quote What I am saying is, this country 'rescued' a soldier who DESERTED... why not the Marine in that Mexican jail. Why the marine in the mexican jail? QuoteThe guy screwed-up, yes but good lord, where is the sense? I guess, folks who never screw-up wouldn't understand. So, free pass for every first time offender in the US justice system then? QuoteGet him back this side of the border and handle it in house. How? I doubt the Mexicans would be interested in swapping him for a bunch of incarcerated drug dealers.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #260 June 7, 2014 freetheflyQuoteI like that! Take care of our own. If, the man has a mental problem... get him home and get him care and help. To let him rot in a Mexican jail till his family is flat broke is criminal. You bet! Get him back this side of the border and handle it in house. Yessir! Does anyone on this board or anyone at all outside the government know what is actually being done? I doubt it. I really do suspect that the Department of State are taking the proper channels to bring this man home. I know, some believe they should go in with guns blazing. However, this is a delicate situation. To piss them off would be the end of this Marine. Some folks should really bite their tongues and just shut up (Fox news.) I read one source where Kerry turned his back on the idea. I wouldn't expect anything less from him. For the right price, they'll cut him loose in a heartbeat. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #261 June 7, 2014 jakeeQuote What I am saying is, this country 'rescued' a soldier who DESERTED... why not the Marine in that Mexican jail. Why the marine in the mexican jail? QuoteThe guy screwed-up, yes but good lord, where is the sense? I guess, folks who never screw-up wouldn't understand. So, free pass for every first time offender in the US justice system then? QuoteGet him back this side of the border and handle it in house. How? I doubt the Mexicans would be interested in swapping him for a bunch of incarcerated drug dealers. Do you feel the same way about you own countrymen? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #262 June 7, 2014 QuoteWhy the marine in the mexican jail? He crossed the border with three fully loaded weapons (rifle on passenger seat, shotgun behind driver seat, pistol in the driver's door pocket and, more than 400 rounds.) Quote In reply to: The guy screwed-up, yes but good lord, where is the sense? I guess, folks who never screw-up wouldn't understand. So, free pass for every first time offender in the US justice system then? If this were to be the case for this guy, well then sure. All first time offenders get a get out of jail free card. Should all first time drug offenders get a free pass back to the U.S. for being busted for a small amount of pot? I'm 100 percent sure that Fox News and their loyal sheeple would care less for them and be the ones to build the scaffold and tie the noose. If this person were just some every day Joe ( which in reality he is) Fox News and the sheeple would turn their backs on him as they do with more than 6000 Americans http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/10/04/vienna_convention_consular_relations_iran_hikers I spent nearly a year (mid 1993 to June 94) in Mexico doing an ultrasound/induction inspection on the entire Mexican railroad. I became well aware of the consequence of messing up (even a simple mistake will cost you dearly.) I have tested rail passed one of the worst prisons in Mexico. It was a place in the middle of nowhere. Just the sight of it gave ya reason to mind your p's and q's. A couple of years ago in Mexico, one of our drivers hit a drunk man who fell onto the tracks. He was cut in half by the rail car. That guy spent near a year in jail. The company paid big fees to attorneys to secure his freedom (he quit the company upon his return.) The truth came out that he was not responsible for the drunk mans death. He was set free. If this guy did make a simple mistake, I suspect the truth will set him free. If he had other intentions, he fucked up. I hope he really did just make a wrong turn. I really cannot believe that someone would try and cross the border with guns in the open for all to see. If he did have bad intentions, then he will get what Mexico's laws will give him. Our government needs to be very careful on this as nearly 7 out of every 10 foreigner in U.S. prisons is a Mexican national. Most are in for illegal crossing followed by drug offense. http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11187.pdf"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #263 June 8, 2014 We all need to be so very proud of our American Taliban. They just make the world such a better place for all. http://news.msn.com/us/bowe-bergdahls-father-receives-death-threats-police-chief Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #264 June 8, 2014 Amazon Guilty before proved innocent... way to defend the Constitution of the Disgruntled States of Right Wingery. I guess It was the way Zimmerman was treated by the left and He was proven innocent and is still thought to be guilty So you have no point here"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #265 June 9, 2014 rushmc*** Guilty before proved innocent... way to defend the Constitution of the Disgruntled States of Right Wingery. I guess It was the way Zimmerman was treated by the left and He was proven innocent and is still thought to be guilty So you have no point here Did YOUR personal hero kill a young man or not??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #266 June 9, 2014 Amazon****** Guilty before proved innocent... way to defend the Constitution of the Disgruntled States of Right Wingery. I guess It was the way Zimmerman was treated by the left and He was proven innocent and is still thought to be guilty So you have no point here Did YOUR personal hero kill a young man or not??? George Hanson to Wyatt and Billy (Easy Rider): ...You can get out of here, if you haven't killed anybody - at least nobody white."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #267 June 9, 2014 Amazon But you know EXACTLY what I am saying.... I think I got my point across. Yes . . . I understood my daughters attempts when she first started speaking too.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #268 June 9, 2014 masterrig That is not at all what I am saying. What I am saying is, this country 'rescued' a soldier who DESERTED... why not the Marine in that Mexican jail. The guy screwed-up, yes but good lord, where is the sense? I guess, folks who never screw-up wouldn't understand. Where is the equality? I thought that this country did all they could to help Americans in a jam in some other country. Lotta talk outa both sides of their collective mouth. It's interesting that you presume guilt for the first guy, and innocence for the second one. The second one is being given the (shitty) due process of the nation in which he alledgedly committed the crimes. The first one waited 5 years before his release was negotiated. The second one has been there for a couple months? We were at war with the captors for the first. We have very broad trade relations and respect (mostly) the sovereignty of the second's. It's a bit difficult for us to lecture Mexico about having to deal with their drug lords in a non corrupt justice system, but then insist that they leave this guy alone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #269 June 9, 2014 kelpdiver*** That is not at all what I am saying. What I am saying is, this country 'rescued' a soldier who DESERTED... why not the Marine in that Mexican jail. The guy screwed-up, yes but good lord, where is the sense? I guess, folks who never screw-up wouldn't understand. Where is the equality? I thought that this country did all they could to help Americans in a jam in some other country. Lotta talk outa both sides of their collective mouth. It's interesting that you presume guilt for the first guy, and innocence for the second one. The second one is being given the (shitty) due process of the nation in which he alledgedly committed the crimes. The first one waited 5 years before his release was negotiated. The second one has been there for a couple months? We were at war with the captors for the first. We have very broad trade relations and respect (mostly) the sovereignty of the second's. It's a bit difficult for us to lecture Mexico about having to deal with their drug lords in a non corrupt justice system, but then insist that they leave this guy alone. I'm just having a hard time digesting the lack of equality in the way the government goes about getting back our citizens. Time in imprisonment should have no bearing. As in what has been said earlier in this thread, get them back home, then, deal with them. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #270 June 9, 2014 kelpdiver*** That is not at all what I am saying. What I am saying is, this country 'rescued' a soldier who DESERTED... why not the Marine in that Mexican jail. The guy screwed-up, yes but good lord, where is the sense? I guess, folks who never screw-up wouldn't understand. Where is the equality? I thought that this country did all they could to help Americans in a jam in some other country. Lotta talk outa both sides of their collective mouth. It's interesting that you presume guilt for the first guy, and innocence for the second one. The second one is being given the (shitty) due process of the nation in which he alledgedly committed the crimes. The first one waited 5 years before his release was negotiated. The second one has been there for a couple months? We were at war with the captors for the first. We have very broad trade relations and respect (mostly) the sovereignty of the second's. It's a bit difficult for us to lecture Mexico about having to deal with their drug lords in a non corrupt justice system, but then insist that they leave this guy alone. And then there's the fact that we try, convict and execute Mexican citizens without giving them access to consular services, despite treaty obligations that we MUST do so, and then our Supreme Court upholds the travesty.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #271 June 10, 2014 masterrig I'm just having a hard time digesting the lack of equality in the way the government goes about getting back our citizens. Time in imprisonment should have no bearing. As in what has been said earlier in this thread, get them back home, then, deal with them. By what measure are you looking for equality? Certainly not length of stay. Did we try very hard for the first 2 months or a year to negotiate? And again, is there an actual negotiation to be had before his trial? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #272 June 10, 2014 kelpdiver*** I'm just having a hard time digesting the lack of equality in the way the government goes about getting back our citizens. Time in imprisonment should have no bearing. As in what has been said earlier in this thread, get them back home, then, deal with them. By what measure are you looking for equality? Certainly not length of stay. Did we try very hard for the first 2 months or a year to negotiate? And again, is there an actual negotiation to be had before his trial? As I understand it, with Mexican jails the negotiations are all about $$$. Now, what price tag do you want to put on a human life? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #273 June 10, 2014 masterrig As I understand it, with Mexican jails the negotiations are all about $$$. Now, what price tag do you want to put on a human life? Chuck Question - how much will the lives of the people that "The Five" kill be worth if they do kill again?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #274 June 10, 2014 turtlespeed*** As I understand it, with Mexican jails the negotiations are all about $$$. Now, what price tag do you want to put on a human life? Chuck Question - how much will the lives of the people that "The Five" kill be worth if they do kill again? Would a big strong man like you have killed them in Guantanamo?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #275 June 10, 2014 Amazon****** As I understand it, with Mexican jails the negotiations are all about $$$. Now, what price tag do you want to put on a human life? Chuck Question - how much will the lives of the people that "The Five" kill be worth if they do kill again? Would a big strong man like you have killed them in Guantanamo?? Does that answer the question I asked - or are you just trying to be childish and condescending?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
