American POW freed

[riggerrob 643]

mirage62

Quote

Thoughts on U.S. law that requires the administration to give Congress notice 30 days before releasing any detainees from the military prison at Guantanamo Bay that was ignored?

It falls the same way. If it turns out that his health wasn't bad, REAL BAD it will play poorly...especially with Congress. OTOH if he's health really is poor than I think the public will give Obama a pass.

Personally I think we are in a new time. We aren't fighting other nations and swapping POW like this may be a bad idea but it certainly has been done in the past.

I'm leaning toward this was 100% political but would like more info..........

................................................................................

Good point!
If Bergahl's health was deteriorating, maybe the Taliban wanted to avoid the embarrassment of him dying as a POW.

Similarly, maybe the 5 Taliban leaders traded had failing health and the USA was trying to avoid the embarrassment of them dying in Guantanamo.
Just speculating.

[riggerrob 643]

"...no matter how much of a douche this guy might have been to his unit... he is OUR douche... an American ..."

.............................................................................

Warning! My sense of humour is politically incorrect.

If Bergdahl was as bad as you imply, maybe Obama decided that leaving him in Afghanistan was too cruel for even the Taliban.
Hah!
Hah!
OTOH Maybe the Taliban told Obama that "we are sending Bergdahl back to America ... we do not care what you offer in trade, because we cannot stand him any more."

[Boomerdog 0]

The Obama administration fell on its ass and screwed the pooch big time on this one. Congratulations? I think not.

[jakee 1,563]

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OK, so I guess they just started him out as an E-5 then.

No, he was promoted in absentia.

Captured a private, released a sergeant.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jclalor 12]

Very good Rolling Stones article from 2 years ago.


http://m.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607

[rushmc 23]

Boomerdog

The Obama administration fell on its ass and screwed the pooch big time on this one. Congratulations? I think not.

I agree
I have changed my position


but I have to wonder what the hell is he doing???

he is not stupid

He knows he broke a law


I am starting to think he wants to get impeached thinking it will help him and his party in Nov

But I really dont get it

there has GOT to more to this story....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

I am starting to think he wants to get impeached thinking it will help him and his party in Nov

Seriously?

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

DanG

Quote

I am starting to think he wants to get impeached thinking it will help him and his party in Nov

Seriously?

Hell man
I know this is wild

what do you think?

There is very little doubt that he broke the 31 day prior to realease notifiction law HE signed now

Given what I have seen reported on CNN and ALL the networks

What is his motive?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

What is his motive?

I honestly don't know. It could be as simple as wanting to clean up loose ends before the withdrawal.

Or, the opportunity could have presented itself, and he moved on it. Having the Qataris act as intermediaries may have set up the conditions for a trade that weren't possible before.

- Dan G

[Boomerdog 0]

Quote

It was a good trade no matter how you look at it. Bergdahl may have had second thoughts about the war. Maybe. So did a lot of other guys who served in Vietnam. The Army will get to the bottom of it. If he's actually a traitor, they will find out.

I am happy he is now able to return to his family. Can't blame one guy for the whole damned war, especially in a place that's been fighting foreigners for a thousand years. It just isn't fair.

Our folks in uniform today are all-volunteer. That means we don't use them stupidly and ask them to sacrifice their lives needlessly, and then shit on them at the VA.

America has always been better than that. Don't pick on Bergdahl. Look at the bigger picture instead of seeking a scapegoat for our own behavior as a nation. Think of his family.

Not so fast! Your not getting away with this one unchallenged.

At this point, there is evidence; and pretty good evidence that Bergdahl deserted. It is very rare for a Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to come out and offer a statement based upon evidence that might cast a pall on the actions of a President. Four Star Generals are careful, very careful about the information and the credibility of the information that backs up a desertion charge.

Don't pick on Bergdahl, think of his family? Then I would hope you think about the eight families of the eight soldiers WHO DIED SEARCHING FOR THIS DESERTER! Bergdahl a scapegoat? Do you KNOW what desertion is? Let me put it to you this way...it ain't like your skipping school here.

In civilian life, ya don't show up for work, you either get docked pay and/or fired. In the military, ya don't show up for duty, ya risk getting a letter of reprimand put in your personnel file all the way up to being thrown in the stockade. To desert in an operational warzone is a very very very serious matter. The maximum penalty upon a courts-martial conviction is death.

I'll risk the possibility of getting banned from this forum but on this issue, what you have offered is nothing more than ignorance mixed with milk toast pap.





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[rushmc 23]

DanG

Quote

What is his motive?

I honestly don't know. It could be as simple as wanting to clean up loose ends before the withdrawal.

Or, the opportunity could have presented itself, and he moved on it. Having the Qataris act as intermediaries may have set up the conditions for a trade that weren't possible before.

I can see this except for all the info that has come out in the last couple of days

I would really think the Pres KNEW all of this stuff but

He may have just learned about it from the media like the rest of us

This seems to be his out lately

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Boomerdog 0]

See my post above.

I think this may be one of those rare instances where an individual joins the military then realizes that the "all expense paid" trip to another country involves shooting and killing an enemy and NOT being a tourist or doing what one would like to do much less forming an opinion about it and then acting on that opinion.

War is nasty business, I know, I've been in it and I've seen the effects, it's not pretty stuff.

Even the rules of behavior in captivity as a POW (but a deserter is NOT a POW) require one to keep faith and loyalty to the oath of enlistment or comissioning.

The "all-volunteer" military DOES NOT MEAN that the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) awards special accomodations to volunteers who desert their posts.

[rushmc 23]

Boomerdog

See my post above.

I think this may be one of those rare instances where an individual joins the military then realizes that the "all expense paid" trip to another country involves shooting and killing an enemy and NOT being a tourist or doing what one would like to do much less forming an opinion about it and then acting on that opinion.

War is nasty business, I know, I've been in it and I've seen the effects, it's not pretty stuff.

Even the rules of behavior in captivity as a POW (but a deserter is NOT a POW) require one to keep faith and loyalty to the oath of enlistment or comissioning.

The "all-volunteer" military DOES NOT MEAN that the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) awards special accomodations to volunteers who desert their posts.

I absolutly agree with you
My first post of aproval came before all that is out there now was known

BTW

Thank you for your service!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

As far as I'm concerned, an American soldier in enemy hands should be rescued regardless of how he got there. If it is found that he deserted his post, then he should be subject to a court martial.

- Dan G

[Boomerdog 0]

You are welcome to your opinion.

[propblast 0]

jakee

Quote

OK, so I guess they just started him out as an E-5 then.

No, he was promoted in absentia.

Captured a private, released a sergeant.

Correct.

As to your other question of me. His status in the international community and as put up by the military over five years are....telling.

Propblast

[jclalor 12]

DanG

As far as I'm concerned, an American soldier in enemy hands should be rescued regardless of how he got there. If it is found that he deserted his post, then he should be subject to a court martial.

You are 100% correct on our countries policy to leave no soldier behind.

The President could have toned it down a bit in the press, Knowing that there were legitimate questions concerning his capture. This will not help the Democratic party in the least.

[rushmc 23]

DanG

As far as I'm concerned, an American soldier in enemy hands should be rescued regardless of how he got there. If it is found that he deserted his post, then he should be subject to a court martial.

Ok
I can see this but
a law was broken
No doubt about this anymore
Do we just ignore this as well?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

I believe in the world of Obama, this is seen as evolving (if I correctly remember the term that was used)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[regulator 0]

Iago

******So, I don't have military experience and won't comment on the 'deserter/traitor/court marshal' angle.What I can comment on is just how it looks to a regular guy on the outside.

What I see is a guy who started in the service and presumably went through at least a few promotion cycles and got a few notches up the ladder. Maybe he had a CO that torpedoed him on a fit rep, got passed over, or was just disillusioned with the changes over the years.

In any case, I see just a disgruntled, disengaged guy that wanted out. Rather than finish his contract, he decided to just leave instead and got snatched. I don't buy a lot of this conspiracy stuff that he went looking for the Taliban to part of a secret op to get these guys out of Gitmo. Or that Obama is a Taliban sleeper cell and set this whole thing up. Or these other strange things I'm reading on the net or hearing on the radio.

I mean really, some of this stuff is totally wacked out.

Time will tell if setting the precedent of negotiating with bad people is a good idea or not.

He didnt go through any promotion cycles....until he walked away.

OK, so I guess they just started him out as an E-5 then. My mistake.

But I'm hearing and reading some seriously strange stuff. Things like he set this whole thing up and planned to join the Army and desert. Then spend years in a Taliban training camp to be a sleeper agent in the US.

I mean, really? That's pretty whacked out. I think it's far more likely he signed up with one thing in mind and found out it was totally different when he got there. Then he decided to leave rather than just finish his contract and muster out.

And the longer people talk about this, the weirder things tend to get. It's been the hot topic on conservative radio since it happened and every day the callers just get weirder.


The similarities to this show are quite eery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyFmS3wRPCQ

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1796960/

[Andy9o8 2]

rushmc

***As far as I'm concerned, an American soldier in enemy hands should be rescued regardless of how he got there. If it is found that he deserted his post, then he should be subject to a court martial.

Ok
I can see this but
a law was broken
No doubt about this anymore
Do we just ignore this as well?

Legally, this is another grey area. In short, the law might be an unconstitutional violation of separation of powers between the Executive and Legislative branches.

Even though this President signed the legislation into law, at the time he did so he also issued a formal Presidential Signing Statement (frequently done by presidents of both parties) saying that he felt the law risked violating separation of powers and that he reserved the right to act quickly, without prior notice to Congress, when urgency called for it.

HERE is a NYT article about Bergdahl's release; it discusses this issue here:

Quote

Among other complications, there was a potential legal obstacle: Congress has imposed statutory restrictions on the transfer of detainees from Guantánamo Bay. The statutes say the secretary of defense must determine that a transfer is in the interest of national security, that steps have been taken to substantially mitigate a future threat by a released detainee, and that the secretary notify Congress 30 days before any transfer of his determination.

In this case, the secretary, Chuck Hagel, acknowledged in a statement that he did not notify Congress ahead of time. When Mr. Obama signed a bill containing the latest version of the transfer restrictions into law, he issued a signing statement claiming that he could lawfully override them under his executive powers.

“The executive branch must have the flexibility, among other things, to act swiftly in conducting negotiations with foreign countries regarding the circumstances of detainee transfers,” he wrote in the signing statement, adding that if the restrictions “operate in a manner that violates constitutional separation of powers principles, my administration will implement them in a manner that avoids the constitutional conflict.”

Here is the full text of the Presidential Signing Statement, which I suggest one read in its entirety: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/12/26/statement-president-hr-3304

.

[DanG 1]

Quote

You are welcome to your opinion.

I can't imagine the negative impact on morale if soldiers questioned for one second that the US would do everything in it's power to rescue them from capture.

- Dan G

[kallend 2,106]

Before our friends with ODS get up in arms about Obama's signing statement, they should consider that Obama is a mere piker when compared with Reagan's and G.W.B's use of signing statements.

millercenter.org/blog/obama-administration-signing-statements-evans

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,563]

propblast

As to your other question of me. His status in the international community and as put up by the military over five years are....telling.

Telling what?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[aphid 0]

jclalor

Very good Rolling Stones article from 2 years ago.


http://m.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607

Thanks.