kelpdiver 2 #51 June 12, 2014 SkyDekker Trying to argue out of that simple fact just weakens the rest of your arguments. (so please keep doing it ) Freethefly posted the only useful fact in this thread - that stolen guns are a tiny portion of those used to commit crimes. And it hardly surprises me that you nor Kallend stayed well clear of it, preferring instead to state gems like 'ok, maybe it wasn't legal in the US, but it must be legal somewhere else, some other time.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #52 June 12, 2014 rehmwa***You need to actually belong to a gun club and make a minimum number of visits a year to keep your rights. You need at least 6 months as part of that club to buy more than .22. This is still quite restrictive, but it's about the closest thing I've heard of that matches what I'd LIKE to see happen everywhere. (But voluntarily as an individual choice). Owners need to be proficient in use, storage, cleaning, maintenance, safety,,,,,,,,, Used to be we learned it from our parents. And learned it well as part of the culture. Today, (urban areas), I wouldn't want most parents to own scissors........ as for who "gets" to be "given" a right - of course politicians get to have and do whatever they want - they are always "more equal" than the rest of us in their minds. THAT's the big problem. I would bet the politicians there are more worried about the little animals on the farm having weapons.. since that whole Bastille Day thing shows what can happen when you do not treat said little animals well. It does make it a tad harder for the little animals who are unarmed and afraid of the big old pigs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #53 June 12, 2014 kelpdiver *** Trying to argue out of that simple fact just weakens the rest of your arguments. (so please keep doing it ) Freethefly posted the only useful fact in this thread - that stolen guns are a tiny portion of those used to commit crimes. And it hardly surprises me that you nor Kallend stayed well clear of it, preferring instead to state gems like 'ok, maybe it wasn't legal in the US, but it must be legal somewhere else, some other time.' Lol...here you go twisting again. Did you mean stolen in the US or stolen in general? Unless you want to claim that the majority of gun crimes relate to legally owned firearms.....but that doesn't help your position much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #54 June 12, 2014 QuoteChina has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. Yet his is a regular occurance in China on a par with gun attacks in USA: You have any stats for this? Occurence per 100,000 people etc? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #55 June 12, 2014 As I've pointed out before kallend's favorite hobby here is not having said things. In this case, however, He's made a string of posts that make clear he is talking about guns being stolen from legal owners because they were careless / negligent and then those guns subsequently being used in crimes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #56 June 12, 2014 kallend Nonsense. How many guns are manufactured illegally? Almost none. The guns start out legal, and by one method or another get transferred from a legal owner to a criminal. Yes, I agree in part with you. Fast and furious proved that didn't it?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #57 June 12, 2014 turtlespeed*** Nonsense. How many guns are manufactured illegally? Almost none. The guns start out legal, and by one method or another get transferred from a legal owner to a criminal. Yes, I agree in part with you. Fast and furious proved that didn't it? Wasn't it some Texican that thought it was a great idea when it all started? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #58 June 12, 2014 Amazon****** Nonsense. How many guns are manufactured illegally? Almost none. The guns start out legal, and by one method or another get transferred from a legal owner to a criminal. Yes, I agree in part with you. Fast and furious proved that didn't it? Wasn't it some Texican that thought it was a great idea when it all started? I have no idea what people from the government of the Republic of Texas thought about Fast and Furious. I'm pretty sure they didn't have that clear of a crystal ball. Quotetexican Web definitions Texian is an archaic demonym which defined a resident of Mexican Texas and the Republic of Texas and the same region after annexation by the United States of America in 1845. ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TexicanI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #59 June 13, 2014 Backintothesky Banning guns doesn't help - murderous people will ALWAYS find a way. So explain why the USA has by far the highest homicide rate of any nation with a similar culture and similar state of economic development. Are you SURE it's because the USA has a higher % of its population with murderous tendencies? The fact that the US has the highest rate of gun ownership among these nations doesn't occur to you as a possibility?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #60 June 13, 2014 kallend *** Banning guns doesn't help - murderous people will ALWAYS find a way. So explain why the USA has by far the highest homicide rate of any nation with a similar culture and similar state of economic development. Are you SURE it's because the USA has a higher % of its population with murderous tendencies? The fact that the US has the highest rate of gun ownership among these nations doesn't occur to you as a possibility? It is simple . . . too many liberals.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #61 June 13, 2014 turtlespeed ****** Banning guns doesn't help - murderous people will ALWAYS find a way. So explain why the USA has by far the highest homicide rate of any nation with a similar culture and similar state of economic development. Are you SURE it's because the USA has a higher % of its population with murderous tendencies? The fact that the US has the highest rate of gun ownership among these nations doesn't occur to you as a possibility? It is simple . . . too many liberals.Jesus H Christ Turtle... is that your pat answer for everything bad you can imagine in life??? Tell me again what conservatives have ever done to advance humankind... got anything substantial??? And just what is it that Conservatives conserve??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #62 June 13, 2014 turtlespeed ****** Banning guns doesn't help - murderous people will ALWAYS find a way. So explain why the USA has by far the highest homicide rate of any nation with a similar culture and similar state of economic development. Are you SURE it's because the USA has a higher % of its population with murderous tendencies? The fact that the US has the highest rate of gun ownership among these nations doesn't occur to you as a possibility? It is simple . . . too many liberals.Have you been at the tequila again?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #63 June 13, 2014 kallend ********* Banning guns doesn't help - murderous people will ALWAYS find a way. So explain why the USA has by far the highest homicide rate of any nation with a similar culture and similar state of economic development. Are you SURE it's because the USA has a higher % of its population with murderous tendencies? The fact that the US has the highest rate of gun ownership among these nations doesn't occur to you as a possibility? It is simple . . . too many liberals.Have you been at the tequila again? No. I'm not usually "at" anything . . . on tequila, with tequila, yes, . . . but not usually at tequila.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #64 June 13, 2014 turtlespeed ****** Banning guns doesn't help - murderous people will ALWAYS find a way. So explain why the USA has by far the highest homicide rate of any nation with a similar culture and similar state of economic development. Are you SURE it's because the USA has a higher % of its population with murderous tendencies? The fact that the US has the highest rate of gun ownership among these nations doesn't occur to you as a possibility? It is simple . . . too many liberals.HOOK, LINE and SINKER!!!!!! "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #65 June 13, 2014 rushmc ********* Banning guns doesn't help - murderous people will ALWAYS find a way. So explain why the USA has by far the highest homicide rate of any nation with a similar culture and similar state of economic development. Are you SURE it's because the USA has a higher % of its population with murderous tendencies? The fact that the US has the highest rate of gun ownership among these nations doesn't occur to you as a possibility? It is simple . . . too many liberals.HOOK, LINE and SINKER!!!!!! Yeah I hate seeing Turtle dragging those around behind him these days... it is just so unflattering. At least get a pair of line cutters and cut off the oldest ones... while all the new ones are passing thru the system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #66 June 13, 2014 SkyDekker Lol...here you go twisting again. Did you mean stolen in the US or stolen in general? Unless you want to claim that the majority of gun crimes relate to legally owned firearms.....but that doesn't help your position much. Anyone here able to translate this into English? What I see here is the ramblings of a crazy person whose words were translated into 5 different languages and then back into English. I suspect that was the intent - you can't argue with crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #67 June 13, 2014 kelpdiver*** Lol...here you go twisting again. Did you mean stolen in the US or stolen in general? Unless you want to claim that the majority of gun crimes relate to legally owned firearms.....but that doesn't help your position much. Anyone here able to translate this into English? What I see here is the ramblings of a crazy person whose words were translated into 5 different languages and then back into English. I suspect that was the intent - you can't argue with crazy. It's not that it isn't English or that it's undecipherable. The conversation just reads like you're arguing with kallend's original post on the phone and SkyDekker is in the room with you only hearing your half of the discussion and heckling you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #68 June 13, 2014 I would give good money for a ignore user function in this forum! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #69 June 13, 2014 kelpdiverI would give good money for a ignore user function in this forum! If this forum had an ignore user function I don't think it would change the dynamic very much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtiflyer 0 #70 June 14, 2014 Amazon ********* Banning guns doesn't help - murderous people will ALWAYS find a way. So explain why the USA has by far the highest homicide rate of any nation with a similar culture and similar state of economic development. Are you SURE it's because the USA has a higher % of its population with murderous tendencies? The fact that the US has the highest rate of gun ownership among these nations doesn't occur to you as a possibility? It is simple . . . too many liberals.Jesus H Christ Turtle... is that your pat answer for everything bad you can imagine in life??? Tell me again what conservatives have ever done to advance humankind... got anything substantial??? And just what is it that Conservatives conserve???You mean besides Republicans voting to end slavery in this country, while the Democrats voted against it http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/amendment.htm As a matter of fact, although passed in April 1864 by the Senate, with a vote of 38 to 6, the required two-thirds majority was defeated in the House of Representatives by a vote of 93 to 65. Abolishing slavery was almost exclusively a Republican party effort--only four Democrats voted for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #71 June 14, 2014 jtiflyer ************ Banning guns doesn't help - murderous people will ALWAYS find a way. So explain why the USA has by far the highest homicide rate of any nation with a similar culture and similar state of economic development. Are you SURE it's because the USA has a higher % of its population with murderous tendencies? The fact that the US has the highest rate of gun ownership among these nations doesn't occur to you as a possibility? It is simple . . . too many liberals.Jesus H Christ Turtle... is that your pat answer for everything bad you can imagine in life??? Tell me again what conservatives have ever done to advance humankind... got anything substantial??? And just what is it that Conservatives conserve???You mean besides Republicans voting to end slavery in this country, while the Democrats voted against it http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/amendment.htm As a matter of fact, although passed in April 1864 by the Senate, with a vote of 38 to 6, the required two-thirds majority was defeated in the House of Representatives by a vote of 93 to 65. Abolishing slavery was almost exclusively a Republican party effort--only four Democrats voted for it. Oh some revisionist history yet again.. The Party of Lincoln was not hobbled by the Conservative psychosis that has permeated the GOP in this century.. Look up the Southern Strategy that occurred in Nixons time.. when all the Blue Dog conservatives left the Democratic Party because LBJ stabbed them all in the back with all that civil rights stuff.. and totally FUCKED the old Party of Lincoln. Now Try again.. CONSERVATIVE... what are you CONSERVING???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #72 June 14, 2014 kallend*** Banning guns doesn't help - murderous people will ALWAYS find a way. So explain why the USA has by far the highest homicide rate of any nation with a similar culture and similar state of economic development. Are you SURE it's because the USA has a higher % of its population with murderous tendencies? Perhaps our cultures aren't as similar as you think? Perhaps even the slightest variation could make the difference? Recently, Normiss posted a chilling link that showed how almost all of the mass murderers in the last 20 years were using psychotropic drugs: http://libertycrier.com/nearly-every-mass-shooting-last-20-years-shares-one-thing-common-weapons/#bM0zUeKAJkVU0YLm.01 These drugs affect different people in various ways. I've observed the long term psychological effects of these drugs on the minds of people who have abused them. I much rather go joy riding with a drunk crack addict prone to Vietnam flashbacks than to even drive down to the nearest pharmacy with some of these people...Their whole mind chemistry seems to be completely twisted in ways I've never seen with "traditional" drugs...They're not even the same people... Doing a quick search, there does seem to be some evidence that psychotropic drug use in the United States is more prevalent than in European countries, especially with regard to younger individuals. If this is true, then I think the link between psychotropic drug use/abuse and "murderous tendencies" may be plausible. Futhermore, if it is found out that psychotropic drug use/abuse can lead to "murderous tendencies," than it wouldn't even matter if psychotropic drug use was the same throughout various countries - The country with the most accessible guns would simply have the highest gun crime rate...so again, we're back to the same old debate...is it the guns, or is the people? But now the fight would be between the NRA and the Pharmaceutical companies.....Jeeze, I wonder who'd win that one without the constitution protecting our 2nd amendment right?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1001001sos 0 #73 June 14, 2014 kallend So explain why the USA has by far the highest homicide rate of any nation with a similar culture and similar state of economic development. Are you SURE it's because the USA has a higher % of its population with murderous tendencies? The fact that the US has the highest rate of gun ownership among these nations doesn't occur to you as a possibility? You sure you want to stick that statement? And why compare us to only similar cultures and similar states of economic development as you put it? I can tell you why cause it makes us look worse than we really are. While the United States has the highest level of gun ownership per capita in the world, its rate of gun homicides, about three per 100,000 people, is far lower than that of Honduras, the country with the world's highest gun homicide rate (82.1 gun murders per 100,000 people). And according to a 2011 study done by the UN of the 20 most murderous countries in the world the United States didn't even make the list. http://www.businessinsider.com/1homicidal-countries-2011-11?op=1 There's a link to the UN's report in this article. The Washington Post on the other hand took that same report and and did exactly what you said to do, compare us to similar countries. Got that spin thing going on don't ya know. I think I'll take the UN's word before I would the Washington Post's. Leave it to certain media outlets to try and spin it though into something it's not instead of actually reporting on what the UN's report actually said. Heck even Mexico didn't make the top 20 #20. Ethiopia Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 25.5 Reported homicides: 20,239 Year: 2008 #19. Puerto Rico Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 26.2 Reported homicides: 983 Year: 2010 #18. Central African Republic Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 29.3 Reported homicides: 1,240 Year: 2008 #17. Congo Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 30.8 Reported homicides: 1,180 Year: 2010 #16. Colombia Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 33.4 Reported homicides: 15,459 Year: 2010 #15. Lesotho Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 33.6 Reported homicides: 723 Year: 2009 #14. South Africa Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 33.8 Reported homicides: 16,834 Year: 2009 #13. Trinidad and Tobago Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 35.2 Reported homicides: 472 Year: 2010 #12. Malawi Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 36.0 Reported homicides: 5,039 Year: 2008 #11. Uganda Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 36.3 Reported homicides: 11,373 Year: 2008 #10. Zambia Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 38.0 Reported homicides: 4,710 Year: 2008 #9. Saint Kitts and Nevis Wikimedia Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 38.2 Reported homicides: 20 Year: 2010 #8. Virgin Islands Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 39.2 Reported homicides: 43 Year: 2007 #7. Guatemala Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 41.4 Reported homicides: 5,960 Year: 2010 #6. Belize Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 41.7 Reported homicides: 130 Year: 2010 #5. Venezuela Getty Images Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 49.0 Reported homicides: 13,985 Year: 2009 #4. Jamaica Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 52.1 Reported homicides: 1428 Year: 2010 #3. Cote d'Ivoire Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 56.9 Reported homicides: 10,801 Year: 2008 #2. El Salvador Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 66.0 Reported homicides: 4,085 Year: 2010 #1. Honduras Homicide rate (murders per 100,000 people): 82.1 Reported homicides: 6,239 Year: 2010 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1001001sos 0 #74 June 14, 2014 Hey Kallend, bet you can't even name the worse mass school murder in this country or the weapon of choice. Happened in 1927 by a farmer / politician, Andrew Kehoe, in Bath Township, Michigan and explosives was his preferred method. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #75 June 14, 2014 Ah, a rookie!You're not from around here, are you? I applaud your effort, but you'll have to do better than that. Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
