Score one for gun owners

[Coreece 190]

kallend

************Making up silly "bank robbery" scenarios is just that; silly.

not as silly as your bank robbery scenario....

Still glad he brought it up?

I suppose I should have used a icon for the benefit of the more obtuse readers.

I tend to play down to the competition.



Dunning and Kruger strike again.

Hence your inability to effectively address the issue and then resort to sarcasm...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Anvilbrother 0]

Agreed

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[kallend 2,027]

Coreece

***************Making up silly "bank robbery" scenarios is just that; silly.

not as silly as your bank robbery scenario....

Still glad he brought it up?

I suppose I should have used a icon for the benefit of the more obtuse readers.

I tend to play down to the competition.



Dunning and Kruger strike again.

Hence your inability to effectively address the issue and then resort to sarcasm...

Sarcasm IS an appropriate response to an inappropriate analogy, and it appears to have been very effective.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 806]

So the lady with her cleavage showing is going to be raped.
Totally irresponsible.


If you can't expect a bank to be safe, how in the hell do ever expect a home to be?
How do you sleep in your fortress?

talk about silly.

[normiss 806]

Obfuscation and insults.
Standard kallend M.O.
Sad really.
Disappointing even.

[kallend 2,027]

normiss

Obfuscation and insults.
Standard kallend M.O.
Sad really.
Disappointing even.

You make a silly analogy and somehow it's my fault?

THAT is what's disappointing.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Coreece 190]

kallend

******

Dunning and Kruger strike again.

Hence your inability to effectively address the issue and then resort to sarcasm...

Sarcasm IS an appropriate response to an inappropriate analogy, and it appears to have been very effective.

Well there you go...I'm sure you may thinks so.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[normiss 806]

I thought you were smarter than that.
My apologies.

[kelpdiver 2]

RobertMBlevins

The people you named in the above story were legal gun owners and did what they had to do. But they are the exception, rather than the rule. Unlawful shootings are by far much more prevalent.

uh, your supporting evidence, please? You cited misleading LCPV stats that used suicides to triple the value, but nothing to define the number of defensive gun uses that you claim to be the exception.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

So the lady with her cleavage showing is going to be raped.
Totally irresponsible.

Not going to no.

Just like leaving a gun on your front steps isn't a guarantee that it is going to get stolen. But I also would be overly surprised if it did get stolen.

If you leave your gun out in the open, but on your property, are you somewhat responsible if it gets stolen?

Or is it like the drunken girl who has been behaving like a slut all night, goes to a bedroom with a drunk guy and mutters no at some point. She doesn't carry any blame.

[kelpdiver 2]

SkyDekker

Quote

So the lady with her cleavage showing is going to be raped.
Totally irresponsible.

Not going to no.

Just like leaving a gun on your front steps isn't a guarantee that it is going to get stolen. But I also would be overly surprised if it did get stolen.

If you leave your gun out in the open, but on your property, are you somewhat responsible if it gets stolen?

Or is it like the drunken girl who has been behaving like a slut all night, goes to a bedroom with a drunk guy and mutters no at some point. She doesn't carry any blame.

I'm having trouble figuring out your analogy here. Seems like fence straddling.

Is she the equivalent of the gun sitting on the porch? Or is the gun owner covered if he goes to every person he sees and says "don't steal my gun?"

Put more directly - is there ever a level of dress or behaviour that makes her somewhat responsible for non consensual sex? And likewise, what's the min level of action by the gun owner to prevent theft so he doesn't beat any level of responsibility? And does he have to sacrifice all considerations for self defense needs? Or to live in a place that doesn't allow for bolting safes?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Is she the equivalent of the gun sitting on the porch? Or is the gun owner covered if he goes to every person he sees and says "don't steal my gun?"

In the analogy the gun owner is already covered, since stealing is already illegal. For the analogy to hold up, the gun owner is never to blame for guns getting stolen, however easy he makes it.

Can't blame the victim right?

[kelpdiver 2]

SkyDekker

Quote

Is she the equivalent of the gun sitting on the porch? Or is the gun owner covered if he goes to every person he sees and says "don't steal my gun?"

In the analogy the gun owner is already covered, since stealing is already illegal. For the analogy to hold up, the gun owner is never to blame for guns getting stolen, however easy he makes it.

Can't blame the victim right?

You and Kallend already have, so we've been trying to get a feel for when it is their fault rather than the burglar.

Rape and theft are illegal, yet people are willing to blame the victims of each over a wide range of situations.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

kelpdiver

***

Quote

Is she the equivalent of the gun sitting on the porch? Or is the gun owner covered if he goes to every person he sees and says "don't steal my gun?"

In the analogy the gun owner is already covered, since stealing is already illegal. For the analogy to hold up, the gun owner is never to blame for guns getting stolen, however easy he makes it.

Can't blame the victim right?

You and Kallend already have, so we've been trying to get a feel for when it is their fault rather than the burglar.

Rape and theft are illegal, yet people are willing to blame the victims of each over a wide range of situations.

Quote

Rape and theft are illegal, yet people are willing to blame the victims of each over a wide range of situations

When a buddy tells you he left his wallet on the bar and when he went back the next day it was gone. You wouldn't tell him it was stupid to leave his wallet on the bar?

I simply don't believe in this idea that a victim never has any blame. I tend to believe that people should have some responsibility for their actions.

I further don't believe that fault is an either/or thing. If a gun owner leaves a loaded gun in his front yard, and it gets stolen and used in a crime, there are multiple people at fault.

The gun owner for being careless.
The one steeling the gun for theft.
And if another person uses it to commit the crime, they are at fault as well.

[Amazon 7]

SkyDekker

******

Quote

Is she the equivalent of the gun sitting on the porch? Or is the gun owner covered if he goes to every person he sees and says "don't steal my gun?"

In the analogy the gun owner is already covered, since stealing is already illegal. For the analogy to hold up, the gun owner is never to blame for guns getting stolen, however easy he makes it.

Can't blame the victim right?

You and Kallend already have, so we've been trying to get a feel for when it is their fault rather than the burglar.

Rape and theft are illegal, yet people are willing to blame the victims of each over a wide range of situations.

Quote

Rape and theft are illegal, yet people are willing to blame the victims of each over a wide range of situations

When a buddy tells you he left his wallet on the bar and when he went back the next day it was gone. You wouldn't tell him it was stupid to leave his wallet on the bar?

I simply don't believe in this idea that a victim never has any blame. I tend to believe that people should have some responsibility for their actions.

I further don't believe that fault is an either/or thing. If a gun owner leaves a loaded gun in his front yard, and it gets stolen and used in a crime, there are multiple people at fault.

The gun owner for being careless.
The one steeling the gun for theft.
And if another person uses it to commit the crime, they are at fault as well.

How dare you................demand responsibility from a responsible gun owner... Responsibility is for all those OTHER people.

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

I further don't believe that fault is an either/or thing. If a gun owner leaves a loaded gun in his front yard, and it gets stolen and used in a crime, there are multiple people at fault.

The gun owner for being careless.
The one steeling the gun for theft.
And if another person uses it to commit the crime, they are at fault as well.

no - the gun owner is responsible for being careless
the thief for stealing it

that's about as far as I agree with you

but the gun owner is NOT responsible for the following crimes in any way shape or form. He was only responsible for being careless. cite him for contributing to the theft of the gun and that's the line - maybe he'll press charges against himself....

big difference having it stolen vs providing it illegally - trying to equate them isn't logical at all



(How do you reply to the rape analogy then: If the initial rape victim wore a sexy dress is she now also complicit in any following rapes too I guess....?)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

Amazon

How dare you................demand responsibility from a responsible gun owner... Resp

Huge difference between expecting responsibility from someone vs holding someone criminally complicit for the actions of another person.

And again - where does the line get drawn in how much security is responsible vs irresponsible? I'd like to know the consensus on that one....

I'll start - "What I do is absolutely responsible and necessary. Anything less than what I do per my subjective opinion is clearly not."

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

SkyDekker

I further don't believe that fault is an either/or thing. If a gun owner leaves a loaded gun in his front yard, and it gets stolen and used in a crime, there are multiple people at fault.

So of the 300k guns (let's accept that figure as accurate) stolen each year, how many do you believe were loaded guns left in the front yard? Do we make it to 10? The situation is such an outlier that it is an obvious straw man.

How about sticking your neck out just a little on a legit situation - someone breaks into a home and finds a loaded gun in the night stand?

[Amazon 7]

rehmwa

***How dare you................demand responsibility from a responsible gun owner... Resp

Huge difference between expecting responsibility from someone vs holding someone criminally complicit for the actions of another person.

And again - where does the line get drawn in how much security is responsible vs irresponsible? I'd like to know the consensus on that one....

I'll start - "What I do is absolutely responsible and necessary. Anything less than what I do per my subjective opinion is clearly not."

How many people lock up their weapons??

How many people keep them loaded??

The statistics on how many children AND adults shoot each other with "unloaded" guns that were just laying around the house... or hidden in an easily accessible locations in the house every year is a clue that a few irresponsible gun owners are out there who are clueless.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

How about sticking your neck out just a little on a legit situation - someone breaks into a home and finds a loaded gun in the night stand?

I don't think he is in any way criminally liable for that.

Americans love their guns, some will be used for good, some will be used for bad. Just the way it is, which isn't going to change.

I also wasn't talking about criminal liability in any way. The girl who acts like a slut, gets drunk and mutters no 5 minutes into getting laid is also not criminally responsible for rape. But, I certainly hold her partially responsible for what transpired.

[Amazon 7]

http://www.king5.com/news/local/14-year-old-dies-in-Mason-Co-shooting-13-year-old-held-264639571.html




Prosecutors say it's not yet clear who owns the rifles or why the boys were able to get their hands on them.

The alleged shooter told deputies he was aware of firearms safety and had been taught never to play with guns.



http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Friends-thought-rifles-were-unloaded-in-deadly-accident-264673951.html

[kallend 2,027]

Amazon

http://www.king5.com/news/local/14-year-old-dies-in-Mason-Co-shooting-13-year-old-held-264639571.html




Prosecutors say it's not yet clear who owns the rifles or why the boys were able to get their hands on them.

The alleged shooter told deputies he was aware of firearms safety and had been taught never to play with guns.



http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Friends-thought-rifles-were-unloaded-in-deadly-accident-264673951.html

More of those securely stored guns in the home by responsible gun owners.

If Normiss's bank left cash lying around on the counter, with no security guards and just a cheap lock on the door, it seems he would be perfectly happy that they had secured his deposits properly.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I have said it before and I'll say it again. Accidents like these are the price you pay for the 2nd Amendment.

[normiss 806]

It's funny when you reaffirm my previous statements.

[kallend 2,027]

normiss

It's funny when you reaffirm my previous statements.

As far as I can tell from your statements, you don't consider that anyone has any obligation to store anything (regardless of value or hazard) securely, and is totally blameless if it falls into the hands of criminals.

Good job our military doesn't have that attitude about its nukes.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.