It's 2014...e-mails don't just get lost

[airdvr 210]

Maybe they should check with NSA.

Can't you smell it?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[tkhayes 348]

some emails still get lost, sure they do. Apparently you have never had a crash of your computer. However, sure the larger servers likely had backups, but as administrations change, procedures change and such over time (IT dept) then I expect other things get lost as well. Or they simply get misplaced, or departments change and the new people have no idea where the stuf is.

Not sure why they are asking the top brass to testify.....I would ask the IT people in charge the email system to testify instead....oh wait, they are doing it because they like to grandstand.....that's why.

The larger issue here is that right after the 'scandal' broke, it was revealed already that the IRS also targeted suspicious left wing groups as well as right wing groups and that was clearly stated and demonstrated, which means this is not really a scandal at all, but the GOP will continue to use it as another 'Benghazi' instead of getting any real work done.

Now here's a question. Do you want an IRS that investigates suspicious groups, using tax law as a shelter to do things that are really not tax-free if the evidence leads them there? Or do you want an IRS that allows pretty much anyone to start up a sham organization that milks the system for your public tax dollars?

Or do you not want an IRS at all, I mean the country should have no taxes right? I man if we eliminated all taxes, the country would simply prosper on its own magically, right?

[tkhayes 348]

And we use gmail for Skydive City's company email using our own domain. emails in fact disappear and reappear as Google sees fit it would seem. I have an open case with them right now with a re-creatable scenario where I can search for an email, never find it, yet can also use a slightly different and rather obtuse search and find the email in question. Google is pretty tight lipped about this and has offered no solution nor acknowledged that it is even a problem.

It would seem that the IT world is a rather complex one, and even the way emails are stored in and on various systems can probably change. imagine that.

No one in the IRS said that every single email disappeared or was gone, just a particular set of them. Fishy? yes. Unbelievable? not really. Part of perceived Obama dictatorial-socialist-marxist-commie-conspiracy....sure, if you are the GOP

[wayneflorida 0]

airdvr

Maybe they should check with NSA.

Can't you smell it?

That's the same thing that was said about 18 minutes of audio tape. Different time same story.

[cgriff 0]

tkhayes

Or do you not want an IRS at all, I mean the country should have no taxes right? I man if we eliminated all taxes, the country would simply prosper on its own magically, right?

The IRS is not a required component of taxes... Try another strawman.

[Amazon 7]

airdvr

Maybe they should check with NSA.

Can't you smell it?

It would be interesting to note the retention policy. If I have something in my email folders in Outlook that are 30 days old a GPO goes out and dumps them.
If you are smart.. you set up an archive.pst for things you wish to keep and retain them but many companies discourage even that. We get missives from the legal types all the time to clean up your inbox and remove old mail.

[DanG 1]

Quote

We get missives from the legal types all the time to clean up your inbox and remove old mail.

We get the exact opposite missives. Substantive e-mails are kept at my company. Destroying them can be considered unauthorized destruction of records.

- Dan G

[kelpdiver 2]

DanG

Quote

We get missives from the legal types all the time to clean up your inbox and remove old mail.

We get the exact opposite missives. Substantive e-mails are kept at my company. Destroying them can be considered unauthorized destruction of records.

I'm surprised this thread didn't come up over a week ago. It stinks to high heaven. As Dan notes, many of us have to take email more seriously (mandated by law) then your local DZ might. Beyond that, my financial companies had to send copies of all incoming/outgoing email to a third party archiver, in case there may be questions about improper trading. I feel fairly confident that the IRS has similar mandates around preserving mail. They have 3 years (used to be 6 generally) to audit most returns and need to retain all email evidence to perform their job.

TK - since you want to play the apologist - how do you think it would turn out of the IRS asked for supporting documentation for some DZ expenses you claim, and your reply is that it exists, but unfortunately was destroyed in a computer crash?

But let's accept the situation Amazon presents - that users have low quotas and are directed to move mail to PST files on the desktop. Certainly common in many companies. But it presumes that directors don't get higher (or unlimited) allowances, and that they don't do desktop backups. But moreover, if this were the situation, it shouldn't have taken a full fucking year to come up with this 'dog ate my homework' excuse. If this were a civil case between non government entities, the party trying that shit would be held in contempt, or just lose outright. This looks like stalling, but also would have provided plenty of time to wipe the mail, wipe the evidence of having done so, and to hire a red team or two to confirm it is clean.

[rhaig 0]

***

please... the IRS is bloated and our tax code is so complex it's nearly impossible to comply fully. There are plenty of ways to collect taxes without the huge bloated machine that the IRS has become.

--
Rob

[tkhayes 348]

You did not offer an alternative to collect taxes to pay the bills we agree on....

It is one thing to say the IRS is bad, annother to come up with a solution.

It is kind of like "I hate USPA, money sucking bastards".....

another to come up with an equivalent org that can do whatever it is that YOU want it to do.

So a more fundamental question....how does the country pay for the things that it needs (yes include the things that YOU think it needs) and then how do we collect those funds, if any?

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

TK - since you want to play the apologist - how do you think it would turn out of the IRS asked for supporting documentation for some DZ expenses you claim, and your reply is that it exists, but unfortunately was destroyed in a computer crash?

been there and done that. nothing happened. next question.

[kelpdiver 2]

tkhayes

Quote

TK - since you want to play the apologist - how do you think it would turn out of the IRS asked for supporting documentation for some DZ expenses you claim, and your reply is that it exists, but unfortunately was destroyed in a computer crash?

been there and done that. nothing happened. next question.

you'll have to forgive me for not believing your non descriptive answer.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Its ok Obama is in office, if it was Bush he would be having a litter of kittens

Here is what I could find on the email retention for feds

http://www.archives.gov/records-mgmt/toolkit/pdf/ID317.pdf

The last page is a good summary. Basically if the data is over 1 year old and meets long term email status it should have been printed and archived. When was the data that supposedly was "lost" was thought to have been created? I bet if it met that "long term email" protocol it was unarchived and destroyed with that hard drive. Such bullshit, just like the hillary "i lost my memory, ooh wait who cares anymore lets move on"

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[grimmie 186]

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/issa-blamed-ibm-software-loss-22-million

[airdvr 210]

grimmie

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/issa-blamed-ibm-software-loss-22-million

Quote

conveniently lost 22 million emails during the Plamegate investigation that led to the conviction of Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Scooter Libby.

Definitely not convenient for Mr. Libby. So I'm assuming that even with the lost e-mail we should expect convictions?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[regulator 0]

tkhayes

And we use gmail for Skydive City's company email using our own domain. emails in fact disappear and reappear as Google sees fit it would seem. I have an open case with them right now with a re-creatable scenario where I can search for an email, never find it, yet can also use a slightly different and rather obtuse search and find the email in question. Google is pretty tight lipped about this and has offered no solution nor acknowledged that it is even a problem.

It would seem that the IT world is a rather complex one, and even the way emails are stored in and on various systems can probably change. imagine that.

No one in the IRS said that every single email disappeared or was gone, just a particular set of them. Fishy? yes. Unbelievable? not really. Part of perceived Obama dictatorial-socialist-marxist-commie-conspiracy....sure, if you are the GOP

So you seriously want to tell me a government agency with server farms coming out their asses can't has a SINGLE NAS for storage? Your hiprocisy and lack of technical sense is making me laugh. By all means...continue.

[regulator 0]

Amazon

***Maybe they should check with NSA.

Can't you smell it?

It would be interesting to note the retention policy. If I have something in my email folders in Outlook that are 30 days old a GPO goes out and dumps them.
If you are smart.. you set up an archive.pst for things you wish to keep and retain them but many companies discourage even that. We get missives from the legal types all the time to clean up your inbox and remove old mail.

That might be the default time for a group policy for dumping old mail but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is that way everywhere. GPO's are easily editable and my last company chose for a 90 day period before dumping.

[Anvilbrother 0]

I doubt it, hell they cant even follow through with contempt charges for Lois Lerner or Eric Holder. I knew we were SOL in holding our own Govt accountable at that point.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Stumpy 284]

regulator

******Maybe they should check with NSA.

Can't you smell it?

It would be interesting to note the retention policy. If I have something in my email folders in Outlook that are 30 days old a GPO goes out and dumps them.
If you are smart.. you set up an archive.pst for things you wish to keep and retain them but many companies discourage even that. We get missives from the legal types all the time to clean up your inbox and remove old mail.

That might be the default time for a group policy for dumping old mail but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is that way everywhere. GPO's are easily editable and my last company chose for a 90 day period before dumping.

It sounds to me like the IRS are on some POS internally hosted system. I read somewhere that mailbox size limits were 150Mb which is a farce in these days where 25gb is much more the norm. If this is the case, the archiving and backup strategy were probably bullshit as well and it wouldn't surprise me if they lost things ALL the time. Plus "print and archive"? Seriously? Sure, lets have warehouses full of badly filed paper, that sounds like a smart idea.

A proper archiving strategy has NO reliance or dependency on the part of the employee, it should capture every email sent within or without the organisation in a separate store, regardless as to whether the employee then deletes it. A good system will then have boolean searches, retention holds etc. Sounds like the IRS are a good 5 years behind the times on their IT systems.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[wmw999 2,452]

This. And I haven't been employed in three years.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

Had this happened at any level when Bush was in office you would be howling until your hemorrhoids exploded!!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

Stumpy

Sounds like the IRS are a good 5 years behind the times on their IT systems.

It would hardly be shocking if true, even though the SEC/OCC have no trouble mandating MUCH higher standards for us working corporate stiffs.

But as I said, it doesn't take a year to figure out that you don't have the mail anymore. So this sad excuse could have been tried out right away, but it smells like bullshit now.

This sort of problem is pretty widespread in the second term of a regime. We saw it at the end of the Clinton terms as well as the end of Reagan/Bush. It seems necessary for the voter to do housecleaning because an Administration gets a bit too complacent about their responsibilities right about year 5.

[quade 4]

rushmc

Had this happened at any level when Bush was in office you would be howling until your hemorrhoids exploded!!!

Um... Not only did it happen under Bush, FAR more emails were lost.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[GeorgiaDon 362]

rushmc

Had this happened at any level when Bush was in office you would be howling until your hemorrhoids exploded!!!

As Grimmie's link shows, it did happen when Bush was in office. That being the case, I'm sure you will be able to back up your words by showing us links to posts where TK was howling about it until his "hemorrhoids exploded".

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rushmc 23]

quade

***Had this happened at any level when Bush was in office you would be howling until your hemorrhoids exploded!!!

Um... Not only did it happen under Bush, FAR more emails were lost.cool let's see it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln