grue 1 #1 July 14, 2014 I'll be the first to say that I was, and am, against Obamacare and the government being involved as a provider of health care. I don't want this subject to be about that, but about why people are still jumping without coverage. But that said, now that it's much easier (though not in all cases cheaper, of course) to get health insurance… WHY THE FUCK are people still jumping for a living without it? I can kinda understand the guy for whom it's a case of "Well, shit. I can only afford to jump 20 times a year, and if I get health insurance I won't even be able to afford that". I totally get that, I've been there (except it was deciding not to have an AAD, not health insurance :P). But when you're doing something that is, let's not bullshit here, a dangerous fucking hobby and you're doing it for a living? It's a pretty big gamble to think that you're not gonna get hurt, but I guess when we as a community keep paying everyone's medical bills when they hook it in, or have a bad mal or whatever, I guess there's no incentive to be a bit more responsible. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing that makes it a bit more understandable, and if so I'm more than happy to be enlightened…cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldwomanc6 60 #2 July 14, 2014 Wrong sub forum is my guess.lisa WSCR 594 FB 1023 CBDB 9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #3 July 14, 2014 oldwomanc6Wrong sub forum is my guess. I don't really think so, since it's not about if the law is just or good, but it's passed and the insurance is there. Why are people still jumping without it?cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #4 July 14, 2014 Found out years ago that though I thought I had coverage for injuries incurred while skydiving....I did NOT! Fortunately it wasn't because I needed it but rather I was changing carriers and type of insurance. My old policy covered aviation & related activities which included skydiving ~ unless receiving money as a professional. I wasn't told about THAT when signing the contract & must have missed the small print. In short I went about 10 years thinking I had coverage and probably didn't If ya don't have it - get it, even something minor can twist your life sideways for years to come. Seen it happen a few times! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #5 July 14, 2014 grueI'll be the first to say that I was, and am, against Obamacare and the government being involved as a provider of health care. I don't want this subject to be about that, but about why people are still jumping without coverage. But that said, now that it's much easier (though not in all cases cheaper, of course) to get health insurance… WHY THE FUCK are people still jumping for a living without it? I can kinda understand the guy for whom it's a case of "Well, shit. I can only afford to jump 20 times a year, and if I get health insurance I won't even be able to afford that". I totally get that, I've been there (except it was deciding not to have an AAD, not health insurance :P). But when you're doing something that is, let's not bullshit here, a dangerous fucking hobby and you're doing it for a living? It's a pretty big gamble to think that you're not gonna get hurt, but I guess when we as a community keep paying everyone's medical bills when they hook it in, or have a bad mal or whatever, I guess there's no incentive to be a bit more responsible. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing that makes it a bit more understandable, and if so I'm more than happy to be enlightened… One reason is that because so many people do not report their income, it is failed. It will always be a failed program. It was designed to fail. It was never about insurance and all about control. Now when it fails, we can go to a single payer and destroy the insurance industry. Last time I checked - it wasn't the governments job to destroy legal profit making industries. I guess I was wrong. They are proving it.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #6 July 14, 2014 airtwardo My old policy covered aviation & related activities which included skydiving ~ unless receiving money as a professional. Hmm, I still carry term life insurance (V's gonna be rich if I go in) that doesn't exclude skydiving. But now I think I may have to recheck the super fine print. . . Anyone got an electron microscope? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcSwervy 0 #7 July 14, 2014 I think it's ridiculous to jump for a living and not carry health insurance where your high risk activity is covered. Chalk it up to a business expense, like paying for a cell phone or other related business expense. I think it takes a lot of something to have fundraisers for your medical bills when you willingly participate in a high risk activity when you're not prepared to pay to put yourself back together if you get broken. You get hurt at work... so that isn't covered as a Workman's Compensation claim? I assume that's because you're a contractor? If you say you can't afford to pay for health insurance on a skydiving salary then get a night job to make the money to cover the day job's health insurance need. You choose your profession, no one makes that decision for you. I choose to be in IT. I know to be in IT I need an Internet connect I must pay for monthly if I choose to work from home. Would you drive without car insurance? I've known a fun jumper, a young kid I wouldn't expect to hear this from, who've said they're not jumping because they lost their medical insurance when they lost their job or changed jobs and wasn't covered just yet under their new employer's policy. I was shocked and happily surprised there was a young jump whore being responsible. I take this subject a little personal because a few years ago I was questioned why I didn't donate to someone's fundraiser because they all thought I'd make a big donation when they broke themselves because they all thought I made a lot of money at my job and they thought I'd help a friend. I wouldn't trust some people to pay the medical bills with that funding anyway. Sounded like a "buy me more drugs" fund. How about helping yourself and getting coverage? Always be kinder than you feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #8 July 14, 2014 I think it's a case of, it happens to others but not me. Really I am a case in point, 99% of my jumps these days are Bandit jumps IE. I don't jump at dropzones I jump from Microlights and because of the remote area that I live in only the locals know, I do not have insurance, one of the reasons is that I cannot get insurance for my type of jumping and the other is that I am so pig headed that I am positive that I will never have an accident. But the Law of averages says that I will, I'll keep jumping bandit Till I'm caught or have an accident, It's a mentality sort of thing. Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcSwervy 0 #9 July 14, 2014 Don't you worry about burdening others or your family with medical bills or other every day living expenses (rent, utilities, food) should you get hurt?Always be kinder than you feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #10 July 14, 2014 >Don't you worry about burdening others or your family with medical bills or other >every day living expenses (rent, utilities, food) should you get hurt? I find a lot of people don't worry about that until after it happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #11 July 14, 2014 LuckyMcSwervyDon't you worry about burdening others or your family with medical bills or other every day living expenses (rent, utilities, food) should you get hurt? No not really, I live in a country where the medical bills are taken care of by the social security I pay each month. Rent, mortgage, don't owe a dime to anybody. Family, it's a lottery I could just as easily have a car or hunting accident. Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #12 July 14, 2014 billvon>Don't you worry about burdening others or your family with medical bills or other >every day living expenses (rent, utilities, food) should you get hurt? I find a lot of people don't worry about that until after it happens. You are exactly right. It's what makes the world go round. Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #13 July 14, 2014 Quote I live in a country where the medical bills are taken care of by the social security I pay each month. Amazing, isn't it? One would have to live in a shell to not see the up-side of that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #14 July 14, 2014 >I take this subject a little personal because a few years ago I was questioned why >I didn't donate to someone's fundraiser because they all thought I'd make a big >donation when they broke themselves . . . I went through the same thing. I contributed to half a dozen skydiver's "I broke my leg and it turns out that hospitals are expensive!" funds because while I thought it was dumb to not have insurance, I could see someone just not thinking about it and getting caught unawares. Then a woman here (AirAnn) posted about all her expenses - including medical - and how she was going to lose her house over them. I sent her some money, which she thanked me for. About a week later I read about the new camera helmet she was buying, and in another post she mentioned that she was going to spend some time on her tanning bed in her garage. Now although I still contribute to such causes I make sure beforehand that they really do need it, and aren't just hopping on the "hey, free money" bandwagon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 857 #15 July 14, 2014 I also see a number of people that just have a hard time in their mind justifying $300 or more a month for insurance. More so when they make their living taking chances. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #16 July 14, 2014 Zep Family, it's a lottery I could just as easily have a car or hunting accident. statistics clearly show otherwise. Unless you're racing cars and hunting drunk every week, which would also be good causes for getting insurance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygypsie 2 #17 July 15, 2014 JohnMitchell *** My old policy covered aviation & related activities which included skydiving ~ unless receiving money as a professional. Hmm, I still carry term life insurance (V's gonna be rich if I go in) that doesn't exclude skydiving. But now I think I may have to recheck the super fine print. . . ______________________________________________ Had a good friend who had USPA life insurance coverage & also a main stream life insurance policy, as well. A big portion of his income was from skydiving ( TI, AFFI, Demos). Sadly, a year ago he drowned doing a tandem skydive, when he & his student landed in a body of water. He was able to save his passenger before he drowned. His wife; also a good friend, was sole beneficiary. She filed life insurance claims with both USPA & their outside life insurance carrier. She was denied by both. USPA provider concluded once he made entry into the water, the skydive was completed, therefore no pay out. Main stream provider concluded he died 'skydiving', a non covered incident. BTW: Can anyone suggest a medical insurance provider who covers 'paid' skydivers ? Most we've checked into won't cover skydiving, if it is brought to their attention. Actually they won't accept as an insured, once it is noted. Medical insurance through other employment doesn't give skydiving coverage option. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #18 July 15, 2014 skygypsie She was denied by both. USPA provider concluded once he made entry into the water, the skydive was completed, therefore no pay out. Main stream provider concluded he died 'skydiving', a non covered incident. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #19 July 15, 2014 skygypsie She was denied by both. USPA provider concluded once he made entry into the water, the skydive was completed, therefore no pay out. Main stream provider concluded he died 'skydiving', a non covered incident. That sucks and I am sorry to hear of your and your friends loss. I was just thinking about this, and I didn't think it was good practice to be insured twice for the same type of cover for exactly this sort of reason? If a loss adjuster thinks they can push it off onto the other company generally they will.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #20 July 15, 2014 >I also see a number of people that just have a hard time in their mind justifying >$300 or more a month for insurance. Definitely. For some people, it takes getting a $130,000 hospital bill to make them realize it would have been worth it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #21 July 15, 2014 Or perhaps people don't trust insurance companies after all the stories of them denying claims, such as the one just mentioned above.“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygypsie 2 #22 July 15, 2014 Stumpy *** She was denied by both. USPA provider concluded once he made entry into the water, the skydive was completed, therefore no pay out. Main stream provider concluded he died 'skydiving', a non covered incident. That sucks and I am sorry to hear of your and your friends loss. I was just thinking about this, and I didn't think it was good practice to be insured twice for the same type of cover for exactly this sort of reason? If a loss adjuster thinks they can push it off onto the other company generally they will. Unfortunately, his widow doesn't have the financial ability to retain an attorney to fight them...& they know it ! In addition to her ongoing grieving, she also doesn't have the emotional strength to fight them...& they know it ! I am astonished & curious as to the why's & the point in having USPA life insurance, when their carrier can conclude as they did with this incident. * I am not slamming USPA. I realize they offer the coverage, but are not the adjustor's who make claim's decisions, nor are the policy provider's. * personally, a bit unsettling to know that carrier is also my personal insurance company for my home, auto, health Regardless of whether the landing was in water, resulting in his death...my 'teaching' as a student: no skydive is a successful completion, unless you can walk away after landing... He wasn't in the water for a leisurely swim, though he was a certified scuba diver... He was doing a professional skydive Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #23 July 15, 2014 QuoteNo not really, I live in a country where the medical bills are taken care of by the social security I pay each month. Then you, essentially, have insurance. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 857 #24 July 15, 2014 Most of the poor jumpers I have known in this situation still won't justify it. They gladly let it ruin their credit and pay $5 a month to the bill collector for the rest of eternity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #25 July 15, 2014 normiss Most of the poor jumpers I have known in this situation still won't justify it. They gladly let it ruin their credit and pay $5 a month to the bill collector for the rest of eternity. Actually, for a $130,000 bill, it would only take 2166 years...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
