Brilliant idea to stop unneccesary abortion clinic regulations

[rushmc 23]

DanG

When analyzing a decision you need to look at both the costs and benefits.

Subsidizing birth control has a cost. It costs money, and it creates some intransigent damage to the idea of personal responsibility.

But it also has a benefit. It prevent unwanted pregnancy, and prevents abortions.

For some reason you are only willing to admit to the cost. You can think the cost is too great, that's a valid opinion. But if you're not even willing to admit that there is a benefit, then you're just not discussing this honestly.

The cost has less to do with it that does the left pushing an agenda
This and those that do not wish to be accountable for their own actions

And of course no one can be honest who disagrees with you

(disgusting tactic you employ by the way)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,991]

>I look forward to the stories that verify all you posted here

Sure.

Ban education: Mitt Romney opposes all birth control education other than abstinence.

Shut down clinics: Marsha Blackburn (R) and Diane Black (R) have been trying to shut down funding to Planned Parenthood for years.

Consequence free sex: from tweet from Red State's Erick Erickson

Slut/prostitute - what Rush Limbaugh called an advocate of birth control coverage

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>I look forward to the stories that verify all you posted here

Sure.

Ban education: Mitt Romney opposes all birth control education other than abstinence.his choice not the parties

Shut down clinics: Marsha Blackburn (R) and Diane Black (R) have been trying to shut down funding to Planned Parenthood for years.this place should not get fed dollars. even Obama lies about abortion funding

Consequence free sex: from tweet from Red State's Erick Ericksonyep, your point?

Slut/prostitute - what Rush Limbaugh called an advocate of birth control coverage

Limbaughs comment was to who should pay for her wanted consequese free activitie.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,991]

>>>I look forward to the stories that verify all you posted here

Verified. Next question?

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>>>I look forward to the stories that verify all you posted here

Verified. Next question?

Ya
In your mind I know it is true

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

The cost has less to do with it that does the left pushing an agenda
This and those that do not wish to be accountable for their own actions

And of course no one can be honest who disagrees with you

(disgusting tactic you employ by the way)

If I posted the sky was blue, you couldn't bring yourself to agree.

The disgusting tactic is your refusal to debate honestly. There's really no point in talking to you. I don't know why I bother.

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

DanG

Quote

The cost has less to do with it that does the left pushing an agenda
This and those that do not wish to be accountable for their own actions

And of course no one can be honest who disagrees with you

(disgusting tactic you employ by the way)

If I posted the sky was blue, you couldn't bring yourself to agree.

The disgusting tactic is your refusal to debate honestly. There's really no point in talking to you. I don't know why I bother.

You take your shots at me when I disagree
I call you out on it
put your big boy pants on and take it or
stop talking down to those with whom you disagree

Oh, and I agree
The sky is blue

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jclalor 12]

regulator

What a bunch of hypocrites. I am outraged!

This is truly a 'war on women'!

excuse me while I laugh at your hypocrisy

Feel free to keep laughing.

Who party keeps winning the female vote in presidential elections by 10%?

[FreefallingCari 0]

As a Nurse and a woman who has had 2 abortions within the last 12 years, I applaud this.

I do want abortion to be treated like any other medical procedure.
You may not realize this, but minors do have certain rights when it comes to healthcare decisions. Birth control, STD testing and treatment, do not require parental consent in any state. If a minor's family does not believe in "modern medicine", a minor can choose to take action to bypass parental consent laws. For example, There are parents that would not allow blood transfusions or lifesaving treatment for cancer, but the minor desires it. Abortion is treated in the same manner. A minor can take action through a judge, called a judicial bypass, to consent for herself to have an abortion.

Abortion is one of my soapbox issues ;)

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[rushmc 23]

FreefallingCari

As a Nurse and a woman who has had 2 abortions within the last 12 years, I applaud this.

I do want abortion to be treated like any other medical procedure.
You may not realize this, but minors do have certain rights when it comes to healthcare decisions. Birth control, STD testing and treatment, do not require parental consent in any state. If a minor's family does not believe in "modern medicine", a minor can choose to take action to bypass parental consent laws. For example, There are parents that would not allow blood transfusions or lifesaving treatment for cancer, but the minor desires it. Abortion is treated in the same manner. A minor can take action through a judge, called a judicial bypass, to consent for herself to have an abortion.

Abortion is one of my soapbox issues ;)

You need to make your own decisions. I respect that. But with all due respect, abortion is not just another medical procedure

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

rushmc

You need to make your own decisions. I respect that. But with all due respect, abortion is not just another medical procedure

you can't have it both ways

if you believe in personal responsibility for one's choices, then you also have to treat this specific procedure the same way.

1 - it's a medical procedure, the patient makes the final decision, no exception
2 - minors - parental consent absolute, to bypass that requires a special process. until adulthood, the parent is responsible
3 - medical procedure is paid for by the patient, not government funded, nor forced on others via law that requires it in the insurance - that should be a private contract between customer and insurance company also,

choosing or not choosing to abort means also you pay for it, or arrange insurance that covers it.

simple really - individualism and self determination drives a position that any choice that involves two people should be defined as if they both voluntarily agree to sign a contract to that affect. right now, we don't have that - one side wants to force women to give up a right to a medical procedure - the other side wants to force taxpayers to pay for it, or other insurance holders to subsidize it

we are so far away from true advocacy of any kind of personal choice.....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 23]

rehmwa

***You need to make your own decisions. I respect that. But with all due respect, abortion is not just another medical procedure

you can't have it both ways

if you believe in personal responsibility for one's choices, then you also have to treat this specific procedure the same way.

1 - it's a medical procedure, the patient makes the final decision, no exception
2 - minors - parental consent absolute, to bypass that requires a special process. until adulthood, the parent is responsible
3 - medical procedure is paid for by the patient, not government funded, nor forced on others via law that requires it in the insurance - that should be a private contract between customer and insurance company also,

choosing or not choosing to abort means also you pay for it, or arrange insurance that covers it.

simple really - individualism and self determination drives a position that any choice that involves two people should be defined as if they both voluntarily agree to sign a contract to that affect. right now, we don't have that - one side wants to force women to give up a right to a medical procedure - the other side wants to force taxpayers to pay for it, or other insurance holders to subsidize it

we are so far away from true advocacy of any kind of personal choice.....

Sure, from a performance of the procedure it is a medical procedure
But from other perspectives, is it not

As for the rest of your post I mostly agree
I do NOT want to make the procedure unavailable
Not my intent
But it should not be viewed like getting your teeth clean either

But you make good points that I can live with too

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

You take your shots at me when I disagree
I call you out on it
put your big boy pants on and take it or
stop talking down to those with whom you disagree

The problem is that you refuse to make any statement regarding a benefit to society for subsidizing birth control. You won't say there is no benefit, you won't say that there is some benefit. I can't have a conversation with someone who won't address the issue beyond repeating the same position ad nauseum.

And I can't disagree with you if you never take a position. You're always on kallend's back for refusing to state his position on gun control. Why won't you clearly state a position on this?

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

DanG

Quote

You take your shots at me when I disagree
I call you out on it
put your big boy pants on and take it or
stop talking down to those with whom you disagree

The problem is that you refuse to make any statement regarding a benefit to society for subsidizing birth control. You won't say there is no benefit, you won't say that there is some benefit. I can't have a conversation with someone who won't address the issue beyond repeating the same position ad nauseum.

And I can't disagree with you if you never take a position. You're always on kallend's back for refusing to state his position on gun control. Why won't you clearly state a position on this?

I think easily gotten abortion is a detriment to society
Anything that diminishes how life is looked at reduces the strength of a society
Now, I will use what I KNOW is an extreme example to try and clarify my position

Do you think that cultures who send their children to kill with vests made of bombs and tell them 70 virgins will be waiting for them, views life the same as we do?

To me this is how a culture looks at life as a whole


Better?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

Better?

Thank you.

Now can you state your position on whether subsidizing birth control has any benefit to society?

- Dan G

[Coreece 190]

funjumper101

It is about time something was done to stop the bullshit regulations inflicted upon providers of medical services for women, services that can include abortion.

I can understand why a grown ass woman would object to these "regulations." From 35 years on, you're basically set in your ways. You've lived life, you know what you want and have not the time nor need to be schooled by some young doctor/punk trying to convince you otherwise....I get it.

...but the majority of abortions are performed on women between the ages of 15-24...

In this country one can't even drink a beer until they're 21 years of age and most are typically covered by their parents medical insurance until 23-25. Why? Because in this day and age we realize that these "adults" are still just kids and can' t understand/handle the responsibility yet.

I have no problem with a kid waiting 1 or 2 more days to decide if abortion is the right option...what's the big rush? What if the only reason for wanting an abortion is out of an unnecessary fear? A fear of their parents? A fear of society?

I think discussion and support are needed in these instances...

...but I still don't see what the big deal is. All the women I know who had abortions just went to the clinic and the doctor asked them several times if this is what they and the father wanted, and then scheduled the appointment. What a drag!

funjumper101

The House members who vote against the bill can explain to 1/2 of their constituents what their reasoning was.

Well, in addition to the above, this bill, from what I can see could be open season on late term abortion. It's disgusting...even some of the most headstrong liberal women are against THAT!

Also:
Peer Reviewed:
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/199/3/180.abstract

Abstract:

Quote

Women who had undergone an abortion experienced an 81% increased risk of mental health problems, and nearly 10% of the incidence of mental health problems was shown to be attributable to abortion.

Again, I can understand (to a point) the disdain if you're an older women...but the majority of abortions are performed on women within the tender ages of 15-24.

This peer reviewed study is in agreement with what I've observed with the women in my life who've had an abortion. All have shown regret and all are really fucked up...this is not to say however that they would've made a different decision if they had to do it all over again, and it still has to be proven if they were fucked up to begin with...but the study is still legitimate and may speak volumes to the type of women who have abortions, namely, the majority who are between the ages of 15-24.

You see, you don't take the time to consider this because you're so hard up on the idea of the big bad evil Christan white boogeyman destine to destroy freedom with their "war on women." Any studies contrary to your flame are just lies perpetrated by said boogeymen. (snicker)

Did you consider the idea that children may now have to have parental consent?

Did you consider the possible increase in cost of abortion if it were to become just another medical procedure equivalent to (gasp) a colonoscopy, biopsy, abstracted tooth, tonsil removal, etc.?

funjumper101

Slate has a nice write up here

lol...terrible article. It hardly discussed the bill. It was just a fluttering flame by someone acting like a pissed off feminist.

funjumper101

Freedom from oppressive government regulations is supposed to be a Conservative value. The reality is that this value only applies to males of white, northern European ancestry. Women and people of color are not included.

You really need to get some new material...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

DanG

Quote

Better?

Thank you.

Now can you state your position on whether subsidizing birth control has any benefit to society?

I thought this was about employers being forced to supply certain forms of birth control to which they object.

Most companies will still cover birth control despite the SCOTUS ruling...even Hobby Lobby only objected to a couple forms of contraception. Doesn't mean that they won't cover the others...

This is all just fodder for those who want to demonize republicans, Christians and/or conservatives...they are the boogeyman to blame for all the society's ills...it's convenient, it's en vogue.

Just needed to add:
Up here in northern Michigan, Alcona health centers offer a sliding scale where low income women can be approved for birth control at $10 a month. $10 bucks co-pay for all other health issues...I'm assuming the state covers the cost?

Not sure if other areas have the same deal...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

DanG

You're always on kallend's back for refusing to state his position on gun control.

Well, Kallend just seems so afraid posting an opinion that can possibly be ridiculed...he even disguises his edit notifications with colors that are less noticeable.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[FreefallingCari 0]

I think I love you, simply put LOGIC at it's finest....

I am a woman, but I am going to just blurt out and say it. I am not one for political correctness anyhow.

There are FAR too many women that come from emotionally, sexually, or otherwise, damaged upbringings. These women often either do not care enough to take responsibility without it being handed to them on a silver platter, or they simply do not know any better. They see having children as a way of being accepted or loved, gaining attention, and of course "WE" pay for it. "They" do not have to pay, medicaid 100% covers childbirth.

The truth is that we have women living in the US that simply do not give a F#@%. They may be lazy, uneducated, or both. Now, rather than have them breed and continuously have children, why should we not hand them contraceptives on a silver platter and pay for it. Logic says "Hey, these people do NOT need to be popping out babies, so as a logical society we need to step in and actively prevent it."

The benefits of subsidizing BC are many. BC rx each month, 9-100$. Pregnancy care, childbirth and delivery tens of thousands of dollars!

Taking responsibility for self is something I 1000% believe in. What we have to acknowledge as a society is that we have people are too ignorant, uneducated, or lack the drive, to give a F@#$. Sometimes we have to mitigate the damage, and paying for abortion and BC mitigates it.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[turtlespeed 220]

FreefallingCari

I think I love you, simply put LOGIC at it's finest....

I am a woman, but I am going to just blurt out and say it. I am not one for political correctness anyhow.

There are FAR too many women that come from emotionally, sexually, or otherwise, damaged upbringings. These women often either do not care enough to take responsibility without it being handed to them on a silver platter, or they simply do not know any better. They see having children as a way of being accepted or loved, gaining attention, and of course "WE" pay for it. "They" do not have to pay, medicaid 100% covers childbirth.

The truth is that we have women living in the US that simply do not give a F#@%. They may be lazy, uneducated, or both. Now, rather than have them breed and continuously have children, why should we not hand them contraceptives on a silver platter and pay for it. Logic says "Hey, these people do NOT need to be popping out babies, so as a logical society we need to step in and actively prevent it."

The benefits of subsidizing BC are many. BC rx each month, 9-100$. Pregnancy care, childbirth and delivery tens of thousands of dollars!

Taking responsibility for self is something I 1000% believe in. What we have to acknowledge as a society is that we have people are too ignorant, uneducated, or lack the drive, to give a F@#$. Sometimes we have to mitigate the damage, and paying for abortion and BC mitigates it.

That last part seems to say that you know better than they do. Is that true?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[FreefallingCari 0]

The fact is that many people may "know better" than others. Yes, I do "know better" than a lot of people, but I also know less than a lot of people.
I have a college education, good career, and general ability to think logically. Not everyone can do that, so they may need more guidance and more of a push.

Is that the style of question your response intended? I want to make sure I understood your response.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[turtlespeed 220]

FreefallingCari

The fact is that many people may "know better" than others. Yes, I do "know better" than a lot of people, but I also know less than a lot of people.
I have a college education, good career, and general ability to think logically. Not everyone can do that, so they may need more guidance and more of a push.

Is that the style of question your response intended? I want to make sure I understood your response.

So in your mind we should all be under some sort of supervision while we live our lives.

Those that know better than you should be able to make decisions regarding your life.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[mistercwood 287]

turtlespeed

***The fact is that many people may "know better" than others. Yes, I do "know better" than a lot of people, but I also know less than a lot of people.
I have a college education, good career, and general ability to think logically. Not everyone can do that, so they may need more guidance and more of a push.

Is that the style of question your response intended? I want to make sure I understood your response.

So in your mind we should all be under some sort of supervision while we live our lives.

Those that know better than you should be able to make decisions regarding your life.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[FreefallingCari 0]

I never said make decisions, but some people need guidance and a push to care about issues like family planning, education, poverty prevention, and employment. Some people do not know any better because they were never taught any better.

Education is power. Encouragement can help break the ice. Maybe someone's parents do not care, but we can encourage and really push others to care.

Example: I volunteer to go out to impoverished communities and distribute information, at a 5th grade-8th grade reading level, which is intended to educate the community about healthcare. We distribute vaccination schedules, free bus passes, cards for people to help with employment, and literature on family planning. We give out free condoms, and invite people to take advantage of free STD testing services.

This I believe conveys my meaning a little better.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[LyraM45 0]

rushmc

***Cost is an aspect of access.

Would you say you have unfettered access to Lamborghinis?

If it cost less than $300 per year?

Yes

$300 a year? Where do you buy your birth control? Mine was $80/month before the ACA.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)