DanG 1 #126 August 5, 2014 QuoteI assume you have a "worldview". If so you have established it on the belief that some things are true and need to be included while other things are false and need to be rejected. I am sure we share many common values along with some divergent ones in the reality we have constructed for ourselves. What does that have to do with faith? Quote"Morality" to me the word embodies what is good and right. Most religions I know of are not what I would consider moral. In your system of morality who decided what is good and needs to be included and what is evil and needs to be rejected. Do you consider abortion moral, how about capital punishment, cheating on taxes, hedonistic behavior ? Human society has developed, over millenia, a moral code. While organized religion has certainly contributed to the universal concept of good and bad, there is no evidence that any divine beings intervened. In response to your specific questions, I think abortion is a necessary evil, capital punishment is a flawed concept, cheating on taxes is wrong, and hedonistic behavior is too large a category for me to give a meaningful answer. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,032 #127 August 5, 2014 maadmax QuoteAtheism is my religion the same way not collecting stamps is my hobby. Ok, anybody who can decide God doesn't exist should have no trouble making a hobby out of not collecting stamps. But how does that work without using faith to convince yourself that you are actually doing it? ... You have decided that Athena, Zeus, Hermes, Juno, Odin, Freya, Ganesh, Ra, Baal, and tens of thousands of other gods don't exist. Why do you get so worked up when others decide that YOUR god doesn't exist?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #128 August 5, 2014 maadmax QuoteAtheism is my religion the same way not collecting stamps is my hobby. Ok, anybody who can decide God doesn't exist should have no trouble making a hobby out of not collecting stamps. But how does that work without using faith to convince yourself that you are actually doing it? ... I understand what each of those words means individually but you have put them together in a way that I have no idea what you are saying."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderbow 1 #129 August 5, 2014 Another general post.......The best thing about this discussion is that it has remained quite pleasant. Along with some very interesting thoughts. To add my thought (probably not as interesting)...... My conclusion that God exists mostly comes from just looking around me at what I, and others, call Creation, it is hard to imagine that all of this just happened without God to create it.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hcsvader 1 #130 August 5, 2014 I agree, its been nice to have a somewhat intellectual convo on this topic without things getting to stupid. Ill be honest, I have come to believe in something that I could define as "god" through use of certain drugs. It does not however fit into any religious category. I think my beliefs are based on scientific fact, that we just don't really understand yet.Have you seen my pants? it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream >:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #131 August 5, 2014 Quote it is hard to imagine that all of this just happened without God to create it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning I think a more accurate statement is that it's hard for you to imagine that some other people don't imagine what you imagine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #132 August 5, 2014 hcsvader I have come to believe in something that I could define as "god" through use of certain drugs. and yet the strongest argument so far for the atheist side ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderbow 1 #133 August 5, 2014 Like I said, probably not as interesting, but I didn't think it would be that confusing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #134 August 5, 2014 I think things happen because they can. Not because some magical zombie wills them to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderbow 1 #135 August 5, 2014 Well, I just see it as a lot of very complicated "things" happening. And you are bordering on making this thread not as nice of a discussion as it has been in calling Him a magical zombie even though I do understand you don't think about "things" as I and many others do.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #136 August 5, 2014 ThunderbowWell, I just see it as a lot of very complicated "things" happening. Simple things happening over a long period of time can seem as if they are too complex to comprehend. If a person doesn't understand some very basic things, they can appear magical. If a person does understand certain things, then they can probably understand where no magic is required at all.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #137 August 5, 2014 I'll never understand how someone else can be offended because I don't have the same beliefs. Sorry if I dinged your god but he sure dings us a lot. That's part of why I have no belief. A god that created all this "stuff" sure shits on it a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderbow 1 #138 August 5, 2014 I said complex, not simple. Even though the simple ones are pretty hard for me. There are a lot of smarter and more educated people than me that don't understand a lot of what is around us. There are even certain "theories" that people take as fact, maybe because it is easier to believe it is totally true than to believe that we don't really understand it all yet. I know I didn't get anything from the video in the original post. I can't listen that fast. And if I could, I am very hesitant to consider something that has to be said that fast as fact.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #139 August 5, 2014 ThunderbowI said complex, not simple. And I said, simple over time. Imagine drawing a single line on a sheet of paper each day; simple. Imagine the amazingly complex drawing you could end up with in 40 million years.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderbow 1 #140 August 5, 2014 It isn't the fact that someone doesn't have the same beliefs that offends. What offends is the fact that that someone can belittle another's belief. So I hope everyone will excuse me if I made it possible for this discussion to become something it wasn't. Looks like I drew something out I did not mean to.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderbow 1 #141 August 5, 2014 If straight lines kept being drawn you would have a lot of straight lines. If someone put them in the correct order you could have an amazing drawing. But I don't think even 40 million years is enough for random straight lines to become more than just that.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #142 August 5, 2014 My intent was not to offend, sorry if I did. We must accept that not everyone will agree with our views on any and every thing in life. It happens. Or to you, something is pulling the control strings to make that happen. Our lack of belief can equally be belittled by others and happens a lot. Given there is nothing there, it's hard to offend me over my lack of beliefs. I don't see the same consideration the other way around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #143 August 5, 2014 > But I don't think even 40 million years is enough for random straight >lines to become more than just that. It's not. But if you had a physical process that went through all those lines and threw out the ugly ones every night, after 40 million years you'd have some incredibly beautiful, intricate drawings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #144 August 5, 2014 Or rivers, oceans, mountains.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #145 August 5, 2014 billvon> But I don't think even 40 million years is enough for random straight >lines to become more than just that. It's not. But if you had a physical process that went through all those lines and threw out the ugly ones every night, after 40 million years you'd have some incredibly beautiful, intricate drawings. And process is the right word here too. It doesn't take any being to do the work. The connections are made all by themselves. An electrical charge brings two atoms together and they connect all by themselves (sort of like magnets) when the conditions are right and break apart when conditions change. It goes on for millions and millions of years.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #146 August 5, 2014 Southern_Man*** QuoteAtheism is my religion the same way not collecting stamps is my hobby. Ok, anybody who can decide God doesn't exist should have no trouble making a hobby out of not collecting stamps. But how does that work without using faith to convince yourself that you are actually doing it? ... I understand what each of those words means individually but you have put them together in a way that I have no idea what you are saying. His point is that he's missing the point. To explain by way of answering his question... You don't use faith to convince yourself you are not collecting stamps as a hobby because "not collecting stamps" isn't actually a hobby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #147 August 5, 2014 quade An electrical charge brings two atoms together and they connect all by themselves (sort of like magnets) ...remarkably similar to magnets, actually. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #148 August 5, 2014 champu ***An electrical charge brings two atoms together and they connect all by themselves (sort of like magnets) ...remarkably similar to magnets, actually. I don't find that to be either a weak, or a strong, analogy ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #149 August 5, 2014 ThunderbowI said complex, not simple. Even though the simple ones are pretty hard for me. There are a lot of smarter and more educated people than me that don't understand a lot of what is around us. There are even certain "theories" that people take as fact, maybe because it is easier to believe it is totally true than to believe that we don't really understand it all yet. You have perfectly described a God of the Gaps!!!"What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #150 August 5, 2014 rehmwa ******An electrical charge brings two atoms together and they connect all by themselves (sort of like magnets) ...remarkably similar to magnets, actually. I don't find that to be either a weak, or a strong, analogy Don't polarize this argument. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
