Amazon 7 #426 August 22, 2014 airdvr ****** Quote Wilson is a six-year veteran of the Ferguson police force department, and has no prior disciplinary infringements. So let's see. This cop decided to wait 6 years before he began shooting people who were trying to surrender? Perhaps he was always the bigger bully.. so need to be Officer BLAM BLAM BLAM... that seems so popular nowadays. Ultimately.. he will stand in judgement ... I wonder how that will turn out for him?? Unfortunately we will probably never know the truth ala OJ, Trayvon and now Brown. I'm thinking you should do a ride along sometime and see what cops have to endure. Might change your POV. I have.... my next door neighbor was the night sergeant for our local police department. before he went and did a couple tours in the suck. His now ex- wife is also an ex local cop and their kid is now in the NAVY on a MEU assault boat out of VA. All these damn liberals around here I tell ya..... oh wait... want to try another WAG??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #427 August 23, 2014 You seem to be very critical of police and their actions. I have a few questions for you. Put yourself in their shoes. If you were a cop how many punches to the face would you let someone give you before you shot them? If they were reaching for your gun how long would you give them before you shot them? If they were twice your size and running full speed at you how close would you let them get to you before you did anything to defend yourself? How many cops do you think should have handled the riots? 0, 10, 100? How many buildings would you let get vandalized before you took action? How many rocks, Molotov cocktails, and other objects would you allow them to throw before you did anything? How many shots from a gun would you let the riots shot before you did anything? How many rioters would you let shoot each other before you did anything? Once you took that action, how long would you wait before you upped the police action? Would you add another 1, 10, 100 cops? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #428 August 23, 2014 billvon>Except for he wasn't described as a violent rogue cop Oh, people here have indeed described him that way. I'm sure they have. The people here on Dizzy.com know him really well i'm sure. billvon > Not pull shit out of my ass. You're trying to get an angry response from people. And that's fine; that's what lots of people here do all the time. But it's sort of silly to whine about it when other people do it with just as much justification and support. (BTW I liked the "strong armed" shit you pulled out of your ass! Nice touch. Makes him sound like a convicted criminal.) Part of the problem with the world now a days. Telling people what the police have reported is now "soliciting an angry response." Truth is not what everyone wants to here and may even go against their narrative, but it still needs to be put out. And if not "strong armed" how else would you describe the robbery? He was unarmed and just basically started tossing around anyone who got in his way or tried to stop him. What would you say he did to the store clerk if not strong arm him?"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #429 August 23, 2014 rushmcPesky info will make it worse QuoteBREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/ Going back to Tuesday, Rush posted 3 bits of "pesky info." Two were pointless hearsay from unnamed sources, but the most interesting one was the third suggesting the officer suffered substantial injuries in the fight. But it may be total horseshit: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/22/1323849/-Conservatives-literally-make-stuff-up-to-smear-Michael-Brown# Since we haven't talked about its authenticity, just the oddness around how long it took to show up, let's do so now. There may well have been a substantial fight that justifies the use of lethal force, but the fabrication again makes it difficult to trust anything we hear until and unless the grand jury gives a full release of the evidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #430 August 23, 2014 cvfd1399You seem to be very critical of police and their actions. I have a few questions for you. Put yourself in their shoes. If you were a cop how many punches to the face would you let someone give you before you shot them? If they were reaching for your gun how long would you give them before you shot them? If they were twice your size and running full speed at you how close would you let them get to you before you did anything to defend yourself? How many cops do you think should have handled the riots? 0, 10, 100? How many buildings would you let get vandalized before you took action? How many rocks, Molotov cocktails, and other objects would you allow them to throw before you did anything? How many shots from a gun would you let the riots shot before you did anything? How many rioters would you let shoot each other before you did anything? Once you took that action, how long would you wait before you upped the police action? Would you add another 1, 10, 100 cops? How about not going all cowboy in the first place ... no shooting.. no riot. Its called people skills... something that policemen used to have once upon a time. If your only tool is a hammer... every problem looks like a nail to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #431 August 23, 2014 Ok so we are not gonna go all cowboy, now please answer the questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #432 August 23, 2014 cvfd1399Ok so we are not gonna go all cowboy, now please answer the questions. How about taking some lessons from this police force, which seems to have it figured out.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #433 August 23, 2014 Ok so you are saying that if cops did not have guns that criminals will put down their guns also? Obviously if you don't arm cops the number of people shot will go down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #434 August 23, 2014 cvfd1399Ok so you are saying that if cops did not have guns that criminals will put down their guns also? Obviously if you don't arm cops the number of people shot will go down. I did not say anything of the sort. If you have to resort to a strawman, you've lost already.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #435 August 23, 2014 Well what are you saying then? You said take a lesson from them, the article states that almost all cops do not carry guns there? Therefore the lesson I see you saying is don't carry guns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #436 August 23, 2014 cvfd1399Well what are you saying then? You said take a lesson from them, the article states that almost all cops do not carry guns there? Therefore the lesson I see you saying is don't carry guns. Even the ones that carry guns don't seem inclined to kill unarmed people. Totally different mentality.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #437 August 23, 2014 Amazon How about not going all cowboy in the first place ... no shooting.. no riot. Its called people skills... something that policemen used to have once upon a time. If your only tool is a hammer... every problem looks like a nail to you. Some clarification here. You seem to be arguing that because this 6' 4" 300 lb guy was unarmed, could never be a big enough threat to anyone to warrant being shot. Yet you are a supporter of the 2nd amendment. What would warrant the use of lethal force to you? If a guy was attempting to beat and rape you, would you shoot him even if he was unarmed?"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #438 August 23, 2014 Quotekill unarmed people How many punches to the face are you willing to let someone give you before you defend yourself? 1? Multiple till you are almost unconscious? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 798 #439 August 23, 2014 How many cops do we have to allow to stick a semi-automatic rifle in our faces while they scream "I will fucking murder you!!!"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #440 August 23, 2014 0, and if that is all true he should be dealt with, but the fact remains, you can't do nothing in the US, and you can't do that. Maybe we have to let a couple hundred cops to get murdered on the job to reaffirm their need for countermeasures to people out there to hurt them. Everyone complains of how they look, the rifles they carry, the vehicles they drive. Did you ever think that the appearance that presents might be more effective than the actual use of those weapons? Consider this your faced with a riot, of 200 people, looters, people shooting each other in the crowd, fires, cars being overturned. Which option would be safer. A. 5 unarmed Barney fife guys saying come on guys please stop that. B. 10 cops with guns that just go ape shit and shoot, beat, and harass. C. 50 in swat gear that do not fire a shot but put out the presence of don't fuck with us and go home or be peaceful while protesting legally. I understand you will say right now well we have option c doing option b, and we want option a. And that's fine if it turns out to be true, but I would rather have option c that never has to fire a shot than the others Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 798 #441 August 23, 2014 Fear and intimidation should not be the means IMO. Relationships with the community should come back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #442 August 23, 2014 QuoteRelationships with the community should come back. I agree, but what if that does not work? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #443 August 23, 2014 cvfd1399QuoteRelationships with the community should come back. I agree, but what if that does not work? Are you claiming that US cops can't manage what British cops seem to do?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #444 August 23, 2014 I'm asking, what if being nice, and not having weapons does not work? What if the criminal types continue to pose a threat, or ramp up their activities knowing the cops will not do anything but ask nicely? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #445 August 23, 2014 cvfd1399I'm asking, what if being nice, and not having weapons does not work? What if the criminal types continue to pose a threat, or ramp up their activities knowing the cops will not do anything but ask nicely? Did you read the article? You're right, it doesn't ALWAYS work. Even British cops had to shoot THREE times in the past two years.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #446 August 23, 2014 Ok so you are ok with shooting when it is called for correct? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,444 #447 August 24, 2014 There are widely varying definitions of "called for." That's part of the problem. Kallend is probably indicating that he thinks a pretty tight definition is better. I would tend to agree. The police's motto is to protect and serve; most people infer that it's the people (all of them, not just the ones that are like the police), and not the police themselves, who are primarily to be protected. There is always risk that things won't work. If everyone went in to every situation over prepared, that really wouldn't be an improvement in the long run. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #448 August 24, 2014 What I'm getting at is what level of escalation kallend, that other guy and amazon are comfortable with, and at what time that is acceptable. I expect that will never be revealed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,444 #449 August 24, 2014 Probably not, because it's situational, and not a hard line that you draw ahead of time like a hard deck. Maybe it should be, but if so, escalation to lethal force should happen really late, and not when you're not sure yet Quite frankly, the reactions and statements by the ferguson PD don't make them look like anything other than a group trying to justify what happened, rather than one engaged in analysis. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #450 August 24, 2014 I would be happy with the answers being pertained to the shooting, and the riots. We have alot of information now to answer those questions with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
