Washington Redskins. Needs to change their team name?

[winsor 236]

Andy9o8

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I'm forty plus years old and I cannot recall EVER hearing the term 'Redskin' used outside the context of a sports team. (EDIT: unless you're talking about an old Western movie.)

I think the old Western movies that informed popular American culture are an excellent example. Those were the days before "Little Big Man", when Westerns still had all the white settlers as the besieged good guys, and the Indians as rampaging savages or stupid or both. In those movies, "Redskins" was almost always used as a pejorative. Seriously, you'd think today's pro football team would be embarrassed to keep using that reference given the tenor of the current times, rather than just digging in like stubborn children.

FWIW, most of 'Little Big Man' was in accordance with the narrative in 'Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee.'

Some of the most bizarre scenes had bases in reliable sources. The tying together of the story was fictional, but the veneer of fiction was thin, indeed.

BSBD,

Winsor

[Andy9o8 2]

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Do you not see the double standard?

No more than your buddy at the DZ saying "Hey, asshole!" to you, versus the guy you cut off on the highway saying "Hey, asshole!" to you.

No, seriously: you really didn't get that? OK.

[Bolas 5]

Andy9o8

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Do you not see the double standard?

No more than your buddy at the DZ saying "Hey, asshole!" to you, versus the guy you cut off on the highway saying "Hey, asshole!" to you.

No, seriously: you really didn't get that? OK.

What DNA type does asshole include/disclude? Is there a DNA type of human that has no anus?

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Amazon 7]

Bolas

***

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Do you not see the double standard?

No more than your buddy at the DZ saying "Hey, asshole!" to you, versus the guy you cut off on the highway saying "Hey, asshole!" to you.

No, seriously: you really didn't get that? OK.

What DNA type does asshole include/preclude? Is there a DNA type of human that has no anus?

Well some DNA types do tend to have larger ones than the norm.

[promise5 17]

Just checked my neck and nope it's not red.
Still don't think they need to change the name.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[billvon 2,989]

>No more than your buddy at the DZ saying "Hey, asshole!" to you, versus the
>guy you cut off on the highway saying "Hey, asshole!" to you.

Exactly. It offends most drivers, which is why it's a good idea to not say it (unless, of course, you want to piss someone off.)

Now imagine that very few drivers were actually pissed off by "hey dude!" but a small group of non-driving activists thought that that was derogatory to drivers, because the term used to mean "dandy" and that's homophobic. Would you stop using it?

[BartsDaddy 7]

Andy9o8

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Do you not see the double standard?

No more than your buddy at the DZ saying "Hey, asshole!" to you, versus the guy you cut off on the highway saying "Hey, asshole!" to you.

No, seriously: you really didn't get that? OK.

I never realized a differencein my vocal reaction to either one it is normally a resounding what or at times a yes.I will let you figure out which one gets which reply.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[SkyDekker 1,465]

billvon

>So before you decide if nigger is pejorative you need to poll the black population?

No, that's pretty clear.

But is the term"niggardly" a pejorative? How about "African-American?" Or "black?" Or "Negro?" I'd leave that up to them. I am a good authority on what offends me - other people are better authorities on what offends them.

Why is "nigger" clear, but "redskins" needs a poll?

[billvon 2,989]

>Why is "nigger" clear, but "redskins" needs a poll?

Both are pretty clear to me, but I'd be perfectly willing to change my opinion on either depending on how the targets of the pejorative feel about it.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

billvon

>Why is "nigger" clear, but "redskins" needs a poll?

Both are pretty clear to me, but I'd be perfectly willing to change my opinion on either depending on how the targets of the pejorative feel about it.

How do you define the target? Like Andy, I am offended by the use of the word nigger. Are only black people allowed to determine if the word is offensive?

How does that work for "retard"? Those who might be retarded might not have the mental capacity to decide if it should offend them.

When do you take a stand?

[normiss 798]

My wife and her neighbor friend always tell me I can't use that word.
Personally, I think that is retarded.

[davjohns 1]

I don't use insulting words because I just consider it a waste of time. If you need to be shot, punched, or bitch slapped, I'll help you out. Calling you names is silly.

Still, I never saw the names like Redskins or Braves as anything but complimentary. (Why would anyone name their team something derogatory?) I also did some quick research and see that the majority of those from native nations are not offended and even use the same name for their teams. It's just a vocal minority that wants to control someone else...and get money (usually).

Since that appears to be the case, I wouldn't worry about the name too much. It was meant as a compliment and the majority of those it compliments see it as what it was meant to be.

Somebody is always going to get their panties in a wad no matter what you do.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[billvon 2,989]

>Like Andy, I am offended by the use of the word nigger. Are only black people
>allowed to determine if the word is offensive?

No, anyone can choose to be offended by anything. Personally I decide whether I use a word based on whether the people it refers to are offended. Hence I would use the term "black" when talking about african-americans because it does not seem to offend black people, and it is reasonably descriptive. If you decided you were offended by my use of it, I probably wouldn't change my use of it. If black people were offended by it I probably would.

>When do you take a stand?

Whenever you want. There are important things to take a stand on (like gay rights, violent crime and protecting the environment) and things that aren't important (like an American-Indian team name that does not offend the vast majority of American-Indians.) IMO of course.

[davjohns 1]

I tend to agree with you. If you told me you were offended by my shoes, I would make an effort not to wear those shoes around you. However, if you tried to force me to stop wearing the shoes, I might ignore you. I let people decide what they like and if it isn't much trouble, I'll conform to whatever is comfortable for them. It costs me nothing.

In this case, the people who are theoretically supposed to be offended do not appear to be and the intent was never to offend. Hard to get too fired up about such a non-issue.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[winsor 236]

billvon

>Like Andy, I am offended by the use of the word nigger. Are only black people
>allowed to determine if the word is offensive?

No, anyone can choose to be offended by anything. Personally I decide whether I use a word based on whether the people it refers to are offended. Hence I would use the term "black" when talking about african-americans because it does not seem to offend black people, and it is reasonably descriptive. If you decided you were offended by my use of it, I probably wouldn't change my use of it. If black people were offended by it I probably would.

>When do you take a stand?

Whenever you want. There are important things to take a stand on (like gay rights, violent crime and protecting the environment) and things that aren't important (like an American-Indian team name that does not offend the vast majority of American-Indians.) IMO of course.

I avoid word 'black' because it has historically been used to describe a variety of peoples from differing ethnicities. 'Little Black Sambo,' for instance, was Burmese (hint: if you see a tiger in Africa, you are in a zoo).


BSBD,

Winsor

[davjohns 1]

I actually go with 'black' because 'African' is not an ethnicity. I think the correct term is actually 'Negroid', but I'm certain that would offend. I read a poll many years ago that said there was still a healthy percentage of black Americans that preferred Negro.

I always list myself as Caucasian, but that seems to confuse some people. 'White' is not an ethnicity.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

billvon

>Like Andy, I am offended by the use of the word nigger. Are only black people
>allowed to determine if the word is offensive?

No, anyone can choose to be offended by anything. Personally I decide whether I use a word based on whether the people it refers to are offended. Hence I would use the term "black" when talking about african-americans because it does not seem to offend black people, and it is reasonably descriptive. If you decided you were offended by my use of it, I probably wouldn't change my use of it. If black people were offended by it I probably would.

>When do you take a stand?

Whenever you want. There are important things to take a stand on (like gay rights, violent crime and protecting the environment) and things that aren't important (like an American-Indian team name that does not offend the vast majority of American-Indians.) IMO of course.

You left out the question regarding "retard". Do you first have to find out if mentally challenged people are offended by it?

[Andy9o8 2]

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I read a poll many years ago that said there was still a healthy percentage of black Americans that preferred Negro.

Those probably were mainly the cohort that were already of socially-conscious age when "colored" became obsolete and "Negro" came into vogue. Nowadays, I imagine the surviving members of that percentage are no longer very... healthy.

[billvon 2,989]

>Do you first have to find out if mentally challenged people are offended by it?

No, I think they (and their families) are so I don't use it any more. As a kid I used to describe people of perfectly ordinary intelligence that way as an insult, but I don't think I've used in about thirty years.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

So in that case you don't use it becuse you think they are offended, but you don't require proof. With the term "redskins" you first require proof that a majority of natives are actually offended.

I sense a bit of bias, probably based on whether you yourself actually find it offensive or not, which would be perfectly normal.

[billvon 2,989]

>So in that case you don't use it becuse you think they are offended, but you don't
>require proof. With the term "redskins" you first require proof that a majority of
>natives are actually offended.

Actually I don't require proof for either. Hearing a few Native Americans tell me it offended them would probably be enough, even though that would be far from a representative sample. Likewise, if a 4 foot tall guy told me "just call me a midget; that's what I am, and I hate all the 'little people' shit" I'd probably call him that, without any objective proof that the whole society of dwarves/midgets are OK with that term.

[Andy9o8 2]

I detect a chink in your armor.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

billvon

>So in that case you don't use it becuse you think they are offended, but you don't
>require proof. With the term "redskins" you first require proof that a majority of
>natives are actually offended.

Actually I don't require proof for either. Hearing a few Native Americans tell me it offended them would probably be enough, even though that would be far from a representative sample. Likewise, if a 4 foot tall guy told me "just call me a midget; that's what I am, and I hate all the 'little people' shit" I'd probably call him that, without any objective proof that the whole society of dwarves/midgets are OK with that term.

Unlike when the Washington NFL team has to kick a field goal, here the goalposts seem to move considerably.

[wmw999 2,439]

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I detect a chink in your armor

Ya know, the Pekin, IL HS team mascot until 1980 was the chinks . You alluding to that team name?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,989]

>I detect a chink in your armor.

Racist! I am quite offended, and demand you change your statement to something less offensive.