billvon 2,990 #226 September 18, 2014 >The answer to that is fairly simple, don't fight, pull/use weapons on the police >and you are good. Right back at you. If cops don't abuse their authority, don't see people as sheep to be ruled, and don't try to be soldiers rather than police, then the problem gets a lot easier - and they get to go home to their families a lot more often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #227 September 18, 2014 billvon >Well are they herding? I'm guessing it is because they are good at their job. >And, since there are no predators, as you state, they are doing what I said they >do when there are no predators. You said they are there primarily to protect, when in fact they are there primarily to herd. And to get back to the topic, the problem many people have with police is that they have decided that they ARE the sheepdogs - and that their primary job is to herd the clueless sheep, rather than protect them. "Us" vs "them" with "them" being a bunch of people clueless enough that they don't even know they need to be herded - and foolishly don't understand the need for military weapons, armored personnel carriers, SWAT team raids of poker games etc. We see it now with cops talking down to the general public. telling them they just don't get it, they don't understand the threats that cops face every day, how the world is so much more dangerous. That's a problem that will have to be solved; hopefully the solution will not involve too much pain on either side. In the opinion of someone that has never ever been in law enforcement, even as a wannabe. You remind me of Jane Finda and her efforts getting people conform in Viet Nam,I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #228 September 18, 2014 ***Right back at you. If cops don't abuse their authority, don't see people as sheep to be ruled, and don't try to be soldiers rather than police, then the problem gets a lot easier - and they get to go home to their families a lot more often.*** That is EXACTLY what I am trying to say, the vast, vast majority no not abuse their authority, don't try to be "soldiers", contrary to what some people think. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #229 September 18, 2014 QuoteWow. The last cop that put this message out on the internet was fired. For what? Saying that fighting with the police, especially using weapons is not a good idea, and could be dangerous for all involved? It's simply an accurate statement, apparently accuracy scares you. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #230 September 18, 2014 QuoteThat is EXACTLY what I am trying to say, the vast, vast majority no not abuse their authority, don't try to be "soldiers", contrary to what some people think. Agree but a few do and that is the problem. One rotten apple in a big barrel of good apples will eventually rot the whole barrel. Which in stark terms simply means that if you are enabling/protecting a bad cop, you are a bad cop. Eventually, one event or a series of events in one small increment of time is going to turn the political winds against you LEO's and as I said previously, you'll have rules you won't like imposed upon you simply because you did not listen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #231 September 18, 2014 QuoteEventually, one event or a series of events in one small increment of time is going to turn the political winds against you LEO's and as I said previously, you'll have rules you won't like imposed upon you simply because you did not listen. I agree, however what's driving the political winds is largely based on misinformation promulgated by those with a political agenda. The 24hour news cycle and internet feed off this. Cops make mistakes, when they do sometimes they are out there for the world to see. The "bad cops" you speak of are weeded out, and I would agree it takes too long in certain circumstances for many reasons. The same holds true in many other professions. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 798 #232 September 18, 2014 Last night CNN has one of their little teaser commercials: "What's more dangerous? Ebola ISIS Police" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #233 September 18, 2014 Thank for proving my point, by ANY objective measure that statement is patently false. But it sells ad space....................... "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #234 September 18, 2014 normiss Last night CNN has one of their little teaser commercials: "What's more dangerous? Ebola ISIS Police" Nothing like a good implication for fear mongering.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #235 September 18, 2014 turtlespeed ***Last night CNN has one of their little teaser commercials: "What's more dangerous? Ebola ISIS Police" Nothing like a good implication for fear mongering.Lol, you had no problem with it when the fear mongering was used to persuade Americans to support a war in Iraq. Mushroom Cloud Yellow Cake Imminent Danger Homeland Security Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 798 #236 September 18, 2014 I have never stated the media hype does not play into this, I fully understand that it does. I was quite disappointed to see CNN do that, but hey, it's CNN, it's what they do. Sadly, not everyone understands that. Then there's FOX News. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #237 September 18, 2014 skycop The answer to that is fairly simple, don't fight, pull/use weapons on the police and you are good. So now a wallet is a weapon? Delivering newspapers is fighting?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #238 September 18, 2014 >In the opinion of someone that has never ever been in law enforcement, >even as a wannabe. That's right. And yet you have opinions on alternative energy. Interesting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #239 September 18, 2014 SkyDekker ******Last night CNN has one of their little teaser commercials: "What's more dangerous? Ebola ISIS Police" Nothing like a good implication for fear mongering.Lol, you had no problem with it when the fear mongering was used to persuade Americans to support a war in Iraq. Mushroom Cloud Yellow Cake Imminent Danger Homeland Security Can you please show me evidence of that? Maybe you can compare that to Kerry's acceptance and urging to go forward with that process.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #240 September 18, 2014 QuoteMaybe you can compare that to Kerry's acceptance and urging to go forward with that process. Yup and so did congress. See how effective that fear mongering is. But, I didn't hear you object when it was used to help a cause you agreed with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #241 September 18, 2014 SkyDekker Quote Maybe you can compare that to Kerry's acceptance and urging to go forward with that process. Yup and so did congress. See how effective that fear mongering is. But, I didn't hear you object when it was used to help a cause you agreed with. What fear mongering are you talking about that the media put out that influenced the people that make decisions for the rest of this country? I know Obama claims he gets his intel by watching TV, "just like the rest of us", but I have more, and higher hopes that the rest of the government has more intelligence, or at least a better cognitive ability.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #242 September 19, 2014 QuoteLast night CNN has one of their little teaser commercials: "What's more dangerous? Ebola ISIS Police" It's why I maintain a low profile, a humble heart, a few firearms of various caliber for the given situation and lots of ammo properly stored in a cool dry and classified space. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #243 September 19, 2014 Boomerdog Quote Last night CNN has one of their little teaser commercials: "What's more dangerous? Ebola ISIS Police" It's why I maintain a low profile, a humble heart, a few firearms of various caliber for the given situation and lots of ammo properly stored in a cool dry and classified space. That's gunna help you with ebolaI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #244 September 19, 2014 ***That's gunna help you with ebola*** Surprisingly yes but that goes into an area I'm not willing to discuss here! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #245 September 19, 2014 Quoteand higher hopes that the rest of the government has more intelligence, Really? Like the intelligence used to invade Iraq? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #246 September 19, 2014 Another aspect of this. If you are driving, don't carry any significant amount of money, tools, gear etc. Because if the cops want to, they will just take it. ============ After the terror attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, the government called on police to become the eyes and ears of homeland security on America’s highways. Local officers, county deputies and state troopers were encouraged to act more aggressively in searching for suspicious people, drugs and other contraband. The departments of Homeland Security and Justice spent millions on police training. The effort succeeded, but it had an impact that has been largely hidden from public view: the spread of an aggressive brand of policing that has spurred the seizure of hundreds of millions of dollars in cash from motorists and others not charged with crimes, a Washington Post investigation found. Thousands of people have been forced to fight legal battles that can last more than a year to get their money back. Behind the rise in seizures is a little-known cottage industry of private police-training firms that teach the techniques of “highway interdiction” to departments across the country. . . . A thriving subculture of road officers on the network now competes to see who can seize the most cash and contraband, describing their exploits in the network’s chat rooms and sharing “trophy shots” of money and drugs. Some police advocate highway interdiction as a way of raising revenue for cash-strapped municipalities. “All of our home towns are sitting on a tax-liberating gold mine,” Deputy Ron Hain of Kane County, Ill., wrote in a self-published book under a pseudonym. Hain is a marketing specialist for Desert Snow, a leading interdiction training firm based in Guthrie, Okla., whose founders also created Black Asphalt. Hain’s book calls for “turning our police forces into present-day Robin Hoods.” Cash seizures can be made under state or federal civil law. One of the primary ways police departments are able to seize money and share in the proceeds at the federal level is through a long-standing Justice Department civil asset forfeiture program known as Equitable Sharing. Asset forfeiture is an extraordinarily powerful law enforcement tool that allows the government to take cash and property without pressing criminal charges and then requires the owners to prove their possessions were legally acquired. The practice has been controversial since its inception at the height of the drug war more than three decades ago, and its abuses have been the subject of journalistic exposés and congressional hearings. But unexplored until now is the role of the federal government and the private police trainers in encouraging officers to target cash on the nation’s highways since 9/11. “Those laws were meant to take a guy out for selling $1 million in cocaine or who was trying to launder large amounts of money,” said Mark Overton, the police chief in Bal Harbour, Fla., who once oversaw a federal drug task force in South Florida. “It was never meant for a street cop to take a few thousand dollars from a driver by the side of the road.” . . . Under the federal Equitable Sharing Program, police have seized $2.5 billion since 2001 from people who were not charged with a crime and without a warrant being issued. Police reasoned that the money was crime-related. About $1.7 billion was sent back to law enforcement agencies for their use. . . . There have been 61,998 cash seizures made on highways and elsewhere since 9/11 without search warrants or indictments through the Equitable Sharing Program, totaling more than $2.5 billion. State and local authorities kept more than $1.7 billion of that while Justice, Homeland Security and other federal agencies received $800 million. Half of the seizures were below $8,800. Only a sixth of the seizures were legally challenged, in part because of the costs of legal action against the government. But in 41 percent of cases — 4,455 — where there was a challenge, the government agreed to return money. The appeals process took more than a year in 40 percent of those cases and often required owners of the cash to sign agreements not to sue police over the seizures. Hundreds of state and local departments and drug task forces appear to rely on seized cash, despite a federal ban on the money to pay salaries or otherwise support budgets. The Post found that 298 departments and 210 task forces have seized the equivalent of 20 percent or more of their annual budgets since 2008. Agencies with police known to be participating in the Black Asphalt intelligence network have seen a 32 percent jump in seizures beginning in 2005, three times the rate of other police departments. Desert Snow-trained officers reported more than $427 million in cash seizures during highway stops in just one five-year period, according to company officials. More than 25,000 police have belonged to Black Asphalt, company officials said. . . . A 55-year-old Chinese American restaurateur from Georgia was pulled over for minor speeding on Interstate 10 in Alabama and detained for nearly two hours. He was carrying $75,000 raised from relatives to buy a Chinese restaurant in Lake Charles, La. He got back his money 10 months later but only after spending thousands of dollars on a lawyer and losing out on the restaurant deal. A 40-year-old Hispanic carpenter from New Jersey was stopped on Interstate 95 in Virginia for having tinted windows. Police said he appeared nervous and consented to a search. They took $18,000 that he said was meant to buy a used car. He had to hire a lawyer to get back his money. Mandrel Stuart, a 35-year-old African American owner of a small barbecue restaurant in Staunton, Va., was stunned when police took $17,550 from him during a stop in 2012 for a minor traffic infraction on Interstate 66 in Fairfax. He rejected a settlement with the government for half of his money and demanded a jury trial. He eventually got his money back but lost his business because he didn’t have the cash to pay his overhead. . . . [utl]http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/stop-and-seize/?hpid=z3[/url] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #247 September 19, 2014 You have to understand the logic: If you haven't done anything wrong you won't have any money or belongings worth seizing.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #248 September 19, 2014 Clearly you two want the terrorists to win! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 798 #249 September 20, 2014 No kidding. I've never understood the "too much cash so you must be guilty" approach. WTH? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #250 September 21, 2014 Misconduct even in the small stuff: www.newser.com/story/196142/police-scandal-leads-to-6k-nixed-speeding-tickets.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
