First Ebola Diagnosis in US

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Iago

***It's pretty entertaining watching all the usual suspects, who had previously claimed that healthcare was something that was best left entirely to the private sector, now look to that dastardly federal government for answers.

I really wish Texas would just hurry up and succeed, then they wouldn't have to worry about the CDC for those problems that are best solved at the state and local level.

What's entertaining is watching the dastardly federal government, the supposed 'golden child' for healthcare in America, completely screw this up.

Actually, it is a privately run hospital whose system or employees fucked up.

And if I were to run a hospital as a business, I would likely do the same. The probability of an ebola victim walking in the doors of some Texas hospital is pretty low, so why waste any resources on it?

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Hope you're not freezing up in the mountains. It was pretty chilly here last night.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[RonD1120 62]

Thanks, my wife had me turn the heart on. It was 31 Sunday AM. It's 50 right now and I love it.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Andy9o8 2]

SkyDekker

******It's pretty entertaining watching all the usual suspects, who had previously claimed that healthcare was something that was best left entirely to the private sector, now look to that dastardly federal government for answers.

I really wish Texas would just hurry up and succeed, then they wouldn't have to worry about the CDC for those problems that are best solved at the state and local level.

What's entertaining is watching the dastardly federal government, the supposed 'golden child' for healthcare in America, completely screw this up.

Actually, it is a privately run hospital whose system or employees fucked up.

And if I were to run a hospital as a business, I would likely do the same. The probability of an ebola victim walking in the doors of some Texas hospital is pretty low, so why waste any resources on it?

Of course, sensible people see all the blame-pointing as a useless waste of energy. Let's use it as a teaching moment, and move forward.

Anyhoo, as I see it, basking in the perfection of hindsight, it's easy to say that the US Feds should have already had a protocol in place that would have prevented Duncan from connecting from Brussels to Dallas purely by virtue of Africa being his point of origin. Of course, as I said above, that would really require full international cooperation. Re: the hospital, that screw-up is on the hospital, because said screw-up seems to have taken place before either state or Fed health authorities were notified.
As for the unforgivable fiasco of how the vomit outside the apt building was "cleaned up", I put that equally on local, state and federal authorities (all of whom had more or less concurrent jurisdiction at that location). "Duncan vomiting outside the building" was reported in all the news outlets before the clean-up took place. There's no excuse for that area not having been immediately and properly contained and treated as a highest-urgency contamination zone. Shame on all of them for dropping that ball.

[tigra 0]

I think his actions were HUMAN. Humans can be kind and brave, and they can also be selfish, self centered and just plain dumb. Its really easy to take the high road and 2nd guess what we might do in that situation but we're not there.

I'm pretty sure he already had his visa and ticket, and it has to be pretty well publicized over there that the US aid workers who got sick were taken to the US, treated and cured. I'm not saying its right, but I can't totally condemn the guy either. Instead, I wonder how many more there are like him, who left knowing they been exposed and hoping for the best.

[Rick 67]

jakee

To accomplish secession they'd need to successfully secede.

when I read this I hear Sylvester the cat in my head

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

I think his actions were HUMAN. Humans can be kind and brave, and they can also be selfish, self centered and just plain dumb. Its really easy to take the high road and 2nd guess what we might do in that situation but we're not there.

Well said. Easy to take the high road while safely behind the keyboard. Personally, I don't know what I would do. I would likely choose what is best for me and my family over what is best for the rest of society in this situation.

[jakee 1,489]

Thethethshion?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,991]

>So they have liberia to Dallas flights? I don't know and will check.

Nope, at least two connections.

>And lying on an official form . . . is that criminal?

Yes, at least in Liberia. I hear they plan to prosecute him if he ever makes it back.

[Bolas 5]

SkyDekker

Quote

I think his actions were HUMAN. Humans can be kind and brave, and they can also be selfish, self centered and just plain dumb. Its really easy to take the high road and 2nd guess what we might do in that situation but we're not there.

Well said. Easy to take the high road while safely behind the keyboard. Personally, I don't know what I would do. I would likely choose what is best for me and my family over what is best for the rest of society in this situation.

Again, his actions after the exposure show that he was only thinking of himself, not even his family as by coming to the U.S., he put them all at risk along with countless others. Should a parent put their child and family members at significant risk just to see them/hold them perhaps one last time?

Did the media ever research or find out who was the father of the 19 year old's child as well as when the airline ticket was purchased?

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[freethefly 6]

billvon

>They accelerated global warming, and a computer model run 30 years ago shows
>that the oceans may be anthropogenically heated and devoid of life by some time
>in mid-November.

Not so fast! Seabirds have been seen as far inland as Denver. I have no idea if they carry it, but it will certainly sell more newspapers to talk about the seabird threat.

We will have to build a "border fence" of backdriven wind turbines to protect ourselves from this Ebola threat from the skies.

I've seen seagulls here in Minnesota! Why does Obama not do something about this potential carrier! If I get sick, it will be his fault. Time to deploy the anti-gull guns.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[billvon 2,991]

>Again, his actions after the exposure show that he was only thinking of himself,
>not even his family as by coming to the U.S., he put them all at risk along with
>countless others.

Or not thinking at all, which is more often the case (and of course just as dangerous.)

[Rick 67]

ecthactly

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[kallend 2,027]

Clearly the government should do whatever it takes to save American lives.





(Except fix the things that are actually killing Americans).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Stumpy 284]

RonD1120

Thanks, my wife had me turn the heart on.

Wow - its amazing what they can do with medicine these days!

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Bolas 5]

billvon

>Again, his actions after the exposure show that he was only thinking of himself,
>not even his family as by coming to the U.S., he put them all at risk along with
>countless others.

Or not thinking at all, which is more often the case (and of course just as dangerous.)

A non thinking person wouldn't have lied to Liberian customs.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 2,991]

>A non thinking person wouldn't have lied to Liberian customs.

Non thinking people sign things without reading them all the time. A friend of mine once filled out a form saying that she was bringing no produce or meat into a country. She got into the terminal, realized she had an apple in her bag, and brought it back to the checkpoint where they threw it out. (Apparently the incident is still on her record, which pops up from time to time.) Did she lie to customs, not caring if she destroyed an entire agricultural industry? Or did she forget?

As always Hanlon's Razor applies.

[Bolas 5]

billvon

>A non thinking person wouldn't have lied to Liberian customs.

Non thinking people sign things without reading them all the time. A friend of mine once filled out a form saying that she was bringing no produce or meat into a country. She got into the terminal, realized she had an apple in her bag, and brought it back to the checkpoint where they threw it out. (Apparently the incident is still on her record, which pops up from time to time.) Did she lie to customs, not caring if she destroyed an entire agricultural industry? Or did she forget?

As always Hanlon's Razor applies.

So you think he forgot he was exposed?

Your friend made a mistake, but rather than try and hide it, owned up to it, went back, and dealt with the consequences. Someone whom intentionally lied would have done no such thing but if caught may have said the same thing.

Were she caught prior to noticing, would be unable to prove mistake or lie.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 2,991]

>Were she caught prior to noticing, would be unable to prove mistake or lie.

Exactly - even though she just plain forgot.

Never underestimate the power of incapacity or neglect.

[jcd11235 0]

You don't find it highly implausible that someone would forget that they have been exposed to ebola? An intentional lie motivated by self-preservation seems far more likely. Occam's razor seems more applicable than Hanlon's.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[billvon 2,991]

>You don't find it highly implausible that someone would forget that they have
>been exposed to ebola?

Have you ever been exposed to CMV? If someone asked you that, what would you say? How about if you knew that you would be quarantined for three weeks in Somalia if you said "yes" or "I am not sure?"

I am sure that some people are going to not check the box to flee the country to a place they hope to be saved. A very large number will say "no" because they don't know if they have been, or they don't know what Ebola is, or they have been told by friends "just say no, that's the answer the government wants, they really want to know if you have been sick." That's why any scheme that depends on voluntary reporting is going to be pretty porous - even if people are honest.

(Even a porous barrier, however, is better than no barrier at all, which is why it makes sense to implement even if it only catches half the potential carriers.)

[kelpdiver 2]

billvon

>Were she caught prior to noticing, would be unable to prove mistake or lie.

Exactly - even though she just plain forgot.

Never underestimate the power of incapacity or neglect.

We see enough cases where people forget they have a handgun in their brief cases or purse, make it past TSA inspection, and then inform the plane mid flight. Which leads to a gross overreaction where they divert the flight. For every time this occurs, figure at least 10 more sensible people saved the plane (and themselves the hassle) and kept their mouth shut, and learned a lesson.

People forget fruit or food all the time, particularly after an international flight. So long as it gets tossed in the terminal, who cares?

Will all people know they have been exposed to Ebola? Given its difficulty of transmission, generally yes. But absolutely? No. You could come into contact with someone who has just turned symtomatic without noticing. Looks feverish? Hell, in Africa I look like I'm sweating to death every hour of the day.

But again, for all this drama - AIDS is killing a million Africans every year. The common flu, nevermind the exotic types, is killing at least tens of thousands of Americans each year. I worry a lot more about drunk drivers than I do ebola.

[jcd11235 0]

billvon

How about if you knew that you would be quarantined for three weeks in Somalia if you said "yes" or "I am not sure?"

Exactly the point I made. That he intentionally lied in the interest of self preservation is the most plausible and likely explanation. There's no honor in that.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kelpdiver 2]

jcd11235

***How about if you knew that you would be quarantined for three weeks in Somalia if you said "yes" or "I am not sure?"

Exactly the point I made. That he intentionally lied in the interest of self preservation is the most plausible and likely explanation. There's no honor in that.

eh, I see little dishonorable in skipping an unnecessary 3 week jail sentence.

[muff528 3]

RonD1120

I don't know if this has been considered above but, if an Islamic terrorist is willing to blow him/herself up to kill infidels, why would not such a person inflict themselves with Ebola virus and travel to a western country?

Terrorism is a form of psychological warfare. Just one tactic. Jihadist "terrorists" do not necessarily use terrorism for the purpose of killing infidels. Really an inefficient battle tactic. The victims of terrorist acts are not really the targets of terrorism.

So, it is not really necessary for "terrorists" to kill a lot of people for the act of terrorism to succeed. But they do have to make it known that they are responsible for the act. In that case, even one or two intentional carriers bringing in Ebola or such and infecting a few folks here and there would meet their objectives as long as responsibility is claimed and recognized.