First Ebola Diagnosis in US

[rehmwa 2]

Andy9o8

Update: this morning it's reported that she actually called the CDC - and they gave her clearance to fly. Sigh.

so confusing -

1 - the hospital covered it's own asses by accusing the first nurse of "not following protocol"..(sure, a trained nurse will be lackadaisical about EBOLA protocol).

2 - now for the second nurse traveling, the CDC is being bitchslapped because they DID follow protocol

3 - I haven't seen how they (hospital or CDC) will blame the 2nd nurse for getting it. should be an interesting rationale

sigh

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

Here I thought conservatives in the US were all about personal responsibility and not relying on the federal government for their wellbeing?

not in practice - that's more libertarians. "conservative" and "liberal" are terms that I don't even recognize any more they've been hijacked and 'modified' so many times we should all fall over from dizzyness

Dems and Reps are both all about the government doing things their way (whatever that is, and even if it changes every day) and about making everyone else follow suit. And they REALLY love blaming "anyone else" including government after the fact.

I'm only very gratified in the confidence that, no matter how all this Ebola stuff turns out, there will be several really good friends of many left and right type congressmen that will somehow end up even more rich and powerful as a result of this excursion.

I'm here to help.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Fair enough. So as a libertarian yourself:

Should there be a CDC?
Does the CDC bear any responsibility?

[lawrocket 3]

SkyDekker

***Or the CURRENT SITTING acting surgeon general Boris D. Lushniak could step up and do his job despite the senate block he is the person in charge. Ooh wait thats because the current administration is keeping him locked in a closet so they can blame the GOP/NRA for the lack of a surgeon general action on ebola.

I thought health care was best handled by the private sector? What do you need the CDC and surgeon general for?

All you closeted conservatives who call yourselves libertarians, who should be responsible here?

Having a coordinated response by the government is not violative of libertarian ideals. We aren't anarchists and recognize that there are roles for federal government in coordinating and even orchestrating responses to national issues. I.e., we can't have Arkansas quarantining itself and banning all travel in and out.

I'm frankly stunned that people are blaming the NRA and GOP for this. I'm also stunned that people are blaming Obama for this.

Here's a suggestion: we don't know what the fuck we're doing. We don't have much understanding of Ebola or how it's vectored. Something happened in Texas, and frankly I think it's a credit to communications that we knew about it so quickly. We didn't have quarantine plans in place and hadn't drilled them. There are feds, state and local authorities dealing with private practitioners. This isn't easy, and there will be improvement as we learn from the mistakes and successes. No plan survives first contact.

I'll say I'm pissed that people are spending more time trying to blame as opposed to trying to fix. Rather than call a Congressional hearing, let them go to work planning, coordinating and executing responses.

And enough of this bullshit that we wouldn't have a problem if only we had a confirmed Surgeon General. Right. Anyone here think that if only Admiral Benjamin hadn't resigned last year that it wouldn't be an issue? Come on..

The lack of a confirmed Surgeon General just means it's harder to find someone to push under a bus...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jcd11235 0]

airdvr

you don't think the CDC has mishandled this as badly as the Ferguson PD?

Ferguson PD have killed more Americans than this ebola "outbreak" has.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[yoink 321]

cvfd1399

Second nurse went to visit friends and family in Ohio, when she returned she started getting the fever and was admitted. Look out Ohio......

See, that annoys me as well.

Everyone knows she's working with an extremely dangerous disease, yet there aren't any restrictions on travel for these people, even self imposed ones. It's just stupidity.

While the disease is cooped up in a couple of people in Texas, it's manageable, but once you potentially start infecting hundreds of people in commercial traveling hubs, you've just made the job a whole fucktonne harder.

[jcd11235 0]

SkyDekker

What I don't understand is how people who want the federal government out of almost everything, are first to blame and look to the federal government when things go wrong.

Cut the budgets to the point that departments are ineffective, then complain about how the ineffectiveness is because it's a government organization. It's a standard conservative tactic.

http://www.cdc.gov/fmo/topic/budget%20information/appropriations_budget_form_pdf/Sequester_Impacts.pdf

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Having a coordinated response by the government is not violative of libertarian ideals.

Except that to get that response you need a rather large and well funded organization who is tasked full time with preparing for and organizing these responses.

The question than becomes, which incidents should the federal government have organizations for according to the libertarion viewpoint? Should, again according to libertarian viewpoint, there be any organization that try and prevent problems, or only those that react when problems have already arisen?

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]
Should there be a CDC?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Thanks for your responses!

I think quarantine will be hard to do now. Should have been done right at the beginning, but that ship has sailed.

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

Fair enough. So as a libertarian yourself:

Should there be a CDC?
Does the CDC bear any responsibility?

yes and yes

I resonate mostly with libertarian ideals, but no one is a pure libertarian to the point of being the stereotype. I'd love it if legislature and executive functions 'start' from basic ideals of fiscal thriftiness and social acceptance of individuals - combines with a strong bent towards personal responsibility and personal rather than enforced charity. then deviates cautiously and reluctantly for a very restricted set of functions that just plain need cooperative management.

(I do believe there are pure steretypes of Reps and Dems, mostly due to reading this forum though - ) I also find some social structures appropriate and many others completely unnecessary. Just like everyone else here. (except those few outliers persons mentioned already)

Lawrocket's response is pretty good, I can't really add to it.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[yoink 321]

lawrocket

I can see the need for quarantine, but only so long as there is some form of judicial process associated with it. Want to quarantine someone? Get a warrant and provide some ability for judicial review.

That kind of thing.

But equally, professional responsibility should play a part on the team. I'd rather not have to resort to imposing a quarantine on people who are doing their job, but I would expect them to monitor themselves and be bright enough to recognise the increased level of risk that they're working with and have the will power to limit their own habits until that risk is mitigated.

[jakee 1,563]

Quote

When you have no leadership this is what you get. Yes...I said it. This clusterfuck could have been completely avoided if Barry had demonstrated some basic leadership.

Absolute bullshit. Half the fuckups occured before anyone even knew there was a situation to be fucked up.

Quote

Call him what you like but he was a leader...he made people feel like it was going to be OK.

I'm sure that's exactly what someone who's contracted ebola needs - 'feeling' like it's going to be OK.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

Thanks for your responses!

I think quarantine will be hard to do now.....but that ship has sailed.

I see what you did there

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Rick 67]

rehmwa

***Thanks for your responses!

I think quarantine will be hard to do now.....but that ship has sailed.

I see what you did there


hopefully something can be learned for any future incidents like this

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[jcd11235 0]

lawrocket

I can see the need for quarantine, but only so long as there is some form of judicial process associated with it. Want to quarantine someone? Get a warrant and provide some ability for judicial review.

That's all well and good when there is a significant time lapse between the time one is exposed until they are contagious, such as with ebola. What happens when that time lapse is significantly reduced or nearly eliminated? Or when time of exposure is unknown (e.g., transmitted via common insect), and death follows within a day of the first symptom presenting itself?

I understand and agree that there needs to be some judicial oversight of the quarantine process. But I think your suggestion works only with a subset of diseases that have the potential to result in deadly epidemics.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Bolas 5]

rehmwa

***Fair enough. So as a libertarian yourself:

Should there be a CDC?
Does the CDC bear any responsibility?

yes and yes



One has to wonder if the CDC treated the original infected US citizens in Africa and enforced quarantine if Dallas would have even happened.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]Except that to get that response you need a rather large and well funded organization who is tasked full time with preparing for and organizing these responses.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

A natural limitation of the CDC is that it doesn't provide point of care.

In fairness to the perfection of hindsight, I don't see why a CDC expert couldn't have hopped a plane and gotten the hell over to Dallas ASAP to provide on-site guidance.

[lawrocket 3]

Andy9o8

Quote

A natural limitation of the CDC is that it doesn't provide point of care.

In fairness to the perfection of hindsight, I don't see why a CDC expert couldn't have hopped a plane and gotten the hell over to Dallas ASAP to provide on-site guidance.

Because the CDC expert knew enough to stay the hell away?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

The CDC can provide suggested protective protocols. Issue is whether or not the protocols will work because they haven't been tested.

Or if they are being implemented and followed correctly.

[airdvr 210]

Absolute bullshit. Half the fuckups occured before anyone even knew there was a situation to be fucked up.

Quote

Call him what you like but he was a leader...he made people feel like it was going to be OK.

Quote

I'm sure that's exactly what someone who's contracted ebola needs - 'feeling' like it's going to be OK.

Really? You have a health care worker in direct contact with an ebola patient, THE ONLY PATIENT. She calls the CDC and says she would like to get on a commercial flight but she has a temperature...she feels like she is getting sick. You're going to have to supply me with a timeline if you think half the fuckups occurred before this one or that we didn't know that might present a problem. Of course, had you prevented anyone with a Western Africa Passport from entering the country you could have avoided all of it. So I guess perhaps that qualifies as the first fuckup.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[jakee 1,563]

Quote

She calls the CDC and says she would like to get on a commercial flight but she has a temperature...she feels like she is getting sick.

When i say that half the fuck-ups occurred before the logical conclusion is that there were fuckups afterwards as well. Half of them, in fact.

Secondly, what's that got to do with Obama directly? What's happening is not a situation that any president should be micromanaging.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,563]

Bolas

One has to wonder if the CDC treated the original infected US citizens in Africa and enforced quarantine if Dallas would have even happened.

Well, he wasn't a US citizen and no-one knew he was infected until he was in Dallas so... yes?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jcd11235 0]

airdvr

You have a health care worker in direct contact with an ebola patient, THE ONLY PATIENT. She calls the CDC and says she would like to get on a commercial flight but she has a temperature...

The temperature was 99.5, within the normal range.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!