First Ebola Diagnosis in US

[Andy9o8 2]

jcd11235

***How about if you knew that you would be quarantined for three weeks in Somalia if you said "yes" or "I am not sure?"

Exactly the point I made. That he intentionally lied in the interest of self preservation is the most plausible and likely explanation.

I agree.

Quote

There's no honor in that.

Honor and dead is still dead.
Dishonor and alive is still alive.
There are no friends below 2,000 feet.

[jcd11235 0]

kelpdiver

******How about if you knew that you would be quarantined for three weeks in Somalia if you said "yes" or "I am not sure?"

Exactly the point I made. That he intentionally lied in the interest of self preservation is the most plausible and likely explanation. There's no honor in that.

eh, I see little dishonorable in skipping an unnecessary 3 week jail sentence.

You're claiming that risking the transfer of ebola to yet another country in order to save one's own life is honorable? We have two radically different definitions of honorable behavior.

Considering he had not only been exposed, but had actually been infected, the three week quarantine can hardly be considered unnecessary.

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[Bolas 5]

Andy9o8

Honor and dead is still dead.
Dishonor and alive is still alive.
There are no friends below 2,000 feet.

What about family members?

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Andy9o8 2]

I'm not advocating, I'm explaining. As I said upthread, I think the guy rationalized that it would turn out ok in the end, for everyone.

[Bolas 5]

Andy9o8

I'm not advocating, I'm explaining. As I said upthread, I think the guy rationalized that it would turn out ok in the end, for everyone.

Replaced rationalized with hoped. Don't think he cared though.

Still haven't heard of any actions he took after exposure to support anything other than self preservation only.

Hence my interest in his relationship to the pregnant woman and when the ticket was purchased.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[jakee 1,561]

Bolas

***I'm not advocating, I'm explaining. As I said upthread, I think the guy rationalized that it would turn out ok in the end, for everyone.

Replaced rationalized with hoped.

And how's it going so far?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,067]

>That he intentionally lied in the interest of self preservation is the most plausible
>and likely explanation.

The idea that he knew he was exposed and lied specifically to come back to the US to be treated rather than dying is somewhat undermined by the fact that he got back and waited a week before being treated - then was content to NOT be treated until he got much worse. Someone who really thought they were exposed, and wanted lifesaving treatment in the US, would have been in the ER saying "I have EBOLA people because I was in WEST AFRICA! Hello!" at the first sign of sickness.

(Unless, of course, he didn't think he had been exposed, or wasn't sure, or was just plain clueless - which brings us back to Hanlon.)

[jcd11235 0]

billvon

>That he intentionally lied in the interest of self preservation is the most plausible
>and likely explanation.

The idea that he knew he was exposed and lied specifically to come back to the US to be treated rather than dying is somewhat undermined by the fact that he got back and waited a week before being treated - then was content to NOT be treated until he got much worse.

No, it isn't. Knowing he was exposed isn't the same as knowing he was infected. And if he knew he was exposed and lied to return to the US, it's quite plausible that he'd keep the knowledge of his exposure to himself until symptoms appeared.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[billvon 3,067]

>And if he knew he was exposed and lied to return to the US, it's quite plausible
>that he'd keep the knowledge of his exposure to himself until symptoms
>appeared.

But not so plausible that he'd continue to do so even after symptoms appeared, to the extent that he'd be OK with the modern equivalent of "take two aspirin and call me in the morning." Keep in mind that he waited two days after symptoms appeared before he went to the ER, and then waited another two days after they sent him home to return to the ER. Also recall that although he mentioned he had been in West Africa when the nurse asked him about recent travel, he did not mention this to the doctor he saw. That is unlike the behavior you would expect from someone who returned specifically to be treated for a possible Ebola infection.

Of course it is unlikely we will ever know for sure.

[lawrocket 3]

MSNBC's Krystal Ball says that the NRA is to blame for the Ebola in the US.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jcd11235 0]

billvon

But not so plausible that he'd continue to do so even after symptoms appeared, to the extent that he'd be OK with the modern equivalent of "take two aspirin and call me in the morning."

Sure it is. He had no way of knowing the hospital screwed up. He likely thought the hospital saw something in his symptoms to rule out ebola.

As far as waiting to see a doctor, it's not unusual for people to put off seeing a doctor because they fear bad news.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kelpdiver 2]

jcd11235

*********How about if you knew that you would be quarantined for three weeks in Somalia if you said "yes" or "I am not sure?"

Exactly the point I made. That he intentionally lied in the interest of self preservation is the most plausible and likely explanation. There's no honor in that.

eh, I see little dishonorable in skipping an unnecessary 3 week jail sentence.

You're claiming that risking the transfer of ebola to yet another country in order to save one's own life is honorable? We have two radically different definitions of honorable behavior.

Considering he had not only been exposed, but had actually been infected, the three week quarantine can hardly be considered unnecessary.

well, we probably also have radically differing notions of how much of a drama queen you're being here.

Being reluctant to check "I am not sure", knowing it will give you a 3 week timeout in Africa, when you are not actually sure, is not remotely equivalent to "risking the transfer of ebola to another country." Particularly in advance of getting off the plane - there is still plenty of time for exposure.

If we want to talk about this single individual, he did not know he was infected either. Exposed, yes. And if we acknowledge that he wasn't a transfer risk for days, WTF wouldn't he (or you or I) get ourselves to home where decent medical care exists? Are Africans less important than Americans? They'd be at greater risk to transmission anyway.

Many zombie movies feature strongholds where people form a safety zone with the use of strict exclusion protocols. When they fail, they fail hard. Those may all be movies, but the situation is no different. Taking drastic panic driven steps because we've seen 5 cases is counterproductive.

[jcd11235 0]

kelpdiver

well, we probably also have radically differing notions of how much of a drama queen you're being here.

If you change your mind and decide to discuss the topic like an adult, instead of name calling when your points are refuted, let me know.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kelpdiver 2]

jcd11235

***well, we probably also have radically differing notions of how much of a drama queen you're being here.

If you change your mind and decide to discuss the topic like an adult, instead of name calling when your points are refuted, let me know.

nah....that went out the door once you starting throwing around bullshit honor cards.

It's easy to be a monday morning QB with other people's lives while ignoring facts and sticking to fear. It seems out of character for you.

[billvon 3,067]

>As far as waiting to see a doctor, it's not unusual for people to put off seeing a
>doctor because they fear bad news.

But again, that doesn't really make a lot of sense. He went to the US so he could get medical care for a possible deadly illness, then initially didn't want ti get medical care when he became ill?

And to go with the opposite argument, he could have just forgotten that he was exposed to Ebola. He may have not suspected it was Ebola, or what the symptoms were, or he may have been afraid of doctors. He may not have known that antibiotics didn't work. He may not have understood that Ebola makes you sick. He may have thought that sitting on an ER exam table for 15 minutes was a cure. He may have not thought it was important to mention to the doctor that he was in Liberia. But again, all that supposition to explain his behavior is an argument that incompetence, rather than malice, was the primary cause of his behavior. It's hard to argue that he was wily enough to lie on the form (with intentional understanding of, and disregard for, the risk he posed) yet was not competent enough to understand that an onset of sickness a week after he got back was likely the disease he feared.

We don't know what his motivations were - and will likely never know.

[Andy9o8 2]

lawrocket

MSNBC's Krystal Ball says that the NRA is to blame for the Ebola in the US.

Google "blames obama for ebola". Then marvel at how many hits you get. And you'll recognize some names.
Don't take my word for it, see for yourself.

[jcd11235 0]

billvon

But again, that doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Sure it does. It's not rational behavior, but people are often not rational in their behavior.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Many zombie movies...

Check please.

[turtlespeed 226]

Bolas

***>Again, his actions after the exposure show that he was only thinking of himself,
>not even his family as by coming to the U.S., he put them all at risk along with
>countless others.

Or not thinking at all, which is more often the case (and of course just as dangerous.)

A non thinking person wouldn't have lied to Liberian customs.

Yep.

A person that cares only about his self and nothing about the others he could put in same situation he is in . . . criminal.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[muff528 3]

jcd11235

.... put off seeing a doctor, ....

Maybe he wasn't putting it off. Maybe he was just having a little trouble with the healthcare exchange website for a couple of days.

[kallend 2,106]

Andy9o8

***MSNBC's Krystal Ball says that the NRA is to blame for the Ebola in the US.

Google "blames obama for ebola". Then marvel at how many hits you get. And you'll recognize some names.
Don't take my word for it, see for yourself.

I got 32,900,000.

But the GOP says we have to "do whatever it takes to save American lives." Excluding health care reform, gun law rationalization, dietary education, pollution controls, and OSHA laws, of course.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[cvfd1399 0]

Obama did away with a travel restriction in 2011 that would lock down entry points to travel from people in such places. Look it up it was one of his executive orders. It was bundled together with a bunch of other stuff that he wanted to get rid of to ease Mexican border entry requirements, but now seems to have bitten us in the ass.

[lawrocket 3]

Andy9o8

***MSNBC's Krystal Ball says that the NRA is to blame for the Ebola in the US.

Google "blames obama for ebola". Then marvel at how many hits you get. And you'll recognize some names.
Don't take my word for it, see for yourself.

So blaming the head of the government is equated with blaming a lobbying organization completely unrelated to the issue. I just rather enjoy the whole, "If only we had a surgeon general everything would be okay" point.

It's not like Weaver or Benjamin took the bully pulpit when Biden told us all to stay off buses. Think of surgeons general. I can name Koop and Elders and that's it.

I can see reasons why people would look to a president regarding an infectious disease. The NRA? That's like blaming Planned Parenthood for the ozone hole.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,067]

>Obama did away with a travel restriction in 2011 that would lock down entry
>points to travel from people in such places.

That loosened restrictions to and from Cuba. Are you claiming this guy came from Cuba?

[Andy9o8 2]

Yes, they do equate. Dumb is just dumb.