"Ten Reasons why People who Support Wind Farms Are Deluded, Criminal or Insane. Which One Are You, Vince Cable?"

[rushmc 23]

Andy9o8

I don't think you realize how beneficial wind turbines are to solar power. That's right - solar. Imagine a line of turbines running for thousands of miles longitudinally - starting at, say, El Paso, and running north along the 106th meridian West all the way to the Canadian border. Stay with me on this. Now, assuming you point all of the turbines them East, and you get them spun up so that they're blowing to the West, that means they'd collectively be generating so much thrust that it would enhance the speed of the Earth's rotation. You'd have successive periods of daylight more frequently, resulting in increased solar power generating capacity.

P.S. I've already got the patent on the idea, so no stealing.

Did you do exesive amounts of drugs in law school?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

You need to trust technology.

[rushmc 23]

Andy9o8

You need to trust technology.

How about starting with the technology of drug testing?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

rushmc

***You need to trust technology.

How about starting with the technology of drug testing?

You mean like peeing in a cup?

Come to think of it, if everyone stood for thousands of miles along a single line of longitude and, in unison, whizzed in a westerly direction, the eastward thrust would be substantial.

[rehmwa 2]

Andy9o8

******You need to trust technology.

How about starting with the technology of drug testing?

You mean like peeing in a cup?

Come to think of it, if everyone stood for thousands of miles along a single line of longitude and, in unison, whizzed in a westerly direction, the eastward thrust would be substantial.

too late - patent application pending

Edit: too late to copyright the concept as a solely owned artistic effort. already done. except they all pee on tightly wrapped blankets while humming Born to be Wild

both Nevada and Minnesota provided state government art grants for the effort

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JerryBaumchen 1,446]

Hi Andy,

Quote

solar power

I saw a nice bumper sticker this morning; it said:

"A huge solar energy spill results in a very nice day."



Jerry Baumchen

PS) Think I could get a patent on solar energy spills?

[billvon 3,080]

>Most of those surveyed do not and will not ever live by them

Polls show that the more wind power there is in a state - and thus more potential people who "live near them" - the higher the support is.

>She does not like those just past her south property line (just under a 1/2 mile
>away They are incredibly noisy
>I had no idea

So you would support the woman who wants Longmont closed down because jump planes are noisy? (which they are)

>And, as Buffett says, wind turbines do not make sense if it were not for the tax
>bennies

>Why? Cause they can not make money and survive on their own

I posted a link that refutes that pretty clearly.

But in any case I would be happy to end all subsidies of energy - INCLUDING oil, gas and coal.

And the annoyance of wind? Fine, we will include externalities with all forms of energy production. Wind decreases someone's property value? The wind company pays for it. Coal plant kills 100 people a year? The CEO goes to jail and the company pays reparations to all the families.

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

But in any case I would be happy to end all subsidies of energy - INCLUDING oil, gas and coal.

Yay!!!

no special subsidies
no special penalties

just let them be businesses and the public will choose who they support by being customers or not

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,108]

rushmc

***>Do you now what nimby means?

"Not in my back yard."

However, in the case of wind, Americans are very much "in my back yard, please." Right wing sources try to lie about this to make the case that they are hated, cause health problems, are unpopular etc. Facts do not support their claims.

From ARS Cleantechnica:

================================
Americans Overwhelmingly Support Wind Power
April 2014
By David Ward

American-made wind power has long enjoyed popular support across the country. There’s even evidence to suggest that the more wind power there is in a state, the more support wind power receives.

It was surprising then to read recently a claim by the anti-clean energy Heartland Institute that wind power and other renewables’ favorability was on the decline. Let’s look at some examples that say the exact opposite:

-In January, a Navigant Research poll found that not only was wind power viewed favorably by 72 percent of Americans but that number was on the rise.

- In December, a USA Today poll found the high favorability rating of wind power translated into policy preferences as 73 percent of Americans supported continuing tax incentives for wind power and other renewables.

-A University of Texas poll in October revealed 89 percent of Americans want the federal government to focus on developing renewable energy technology.

-Kansas obtains nearly 20 percent of its electricity from wind power; a recent poll there found 91 percent of voters there support using wind power.

This continues a trend of a variety of recent polling data from Illinois to North Carolina to Michigan that demonstrate Americans support wind.

It’s not surprising that this is the case. On top of providing clean, homegrown energy, wind power attracts a tremendous amount of economic benefits. Wind power fosters economic development in all 50 states, drives up to $25 billion a year in private investment to our national economy, has recently supported 80,000 good-paying jobs — 25,000 of which help make up a domestic manufacturing supply chain with over 550 facilities across 44 states — and it saves American consumers money. In fact, the states that use the most wind energy have seen their electricity prices decrease while all other states comparatively have seen their electricity prices increase.

Plus, not only is 72 percent of a wind turbine’s value now made in the USA, compared to 25 percent in 2005, the cost of wind energy dropped 43 percent over the last four years.

Wind power is an American success story that both Republicans and Democrats can be proud of.
====================

Sorry Bill
I live next to these things and the people who are closer than I say the same as I
Those renting the land for the turbines rarely live on that land. They are despised by the neighbors and loved by big corp land owner

they double the cost of capital investment per meg generated and cannot be used for base power

They are even shutting these things down overseas as the cost and health issues are now being seen as greater than any supposed benefit

The vast majority of those taking the poll do not live next to them
And that is easy to understand because a very small portion of the population ever will live next to them
I guess those that live by them are disposable

This article (which you again fail to source) was put out by a lobbying group
What do you expect for them?

Now, I do not care about the gov helping explore new techs that may be cleaner but, it is time to stop the wind subsidies. We know what we have and if they are viable they should be able to survive on their own (which they will not)
As of today, no large wind farm has made money

I would say the same for coal and gas subsidies

All things considered, given the choice between a coal fired power plant, a coal mine, an oil refinery, a fracking operation or a wind farm in my back yard, I'd choose the wind farm.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,548]

Remember that the cost of cleanup and/or waste disposal needs to be included in the cost of each energy type. Downstream costs are just as valid as upstream costs.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

wmw999

Remember that the cost of cleanup and/or waste disposal needs to be included in the cost of each energy type. Downstream costs are just as valid as upstream costs.

Wendy P.

these issues have been addressed for the most part
dragging them back up is just an attempt at changing the talking points

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,108]

rushmc

***Remember that the cost of cleanup and/or waste disposal needs to be included in the cost of each energy type. Downstream costs are just as valid as upstream costs.

Wendy P.

these issues have been addressed for the most part
dragging them back up is just an attempt at changing the talking points

Suppressing them is just an attempt to conceal pertinent facts.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

kallend

******Remember that the cost of cleanup and/or waste disposal needs to be included in the cost of each energy type. Downstream costs are just as valid as upstream costs.

Wendy P.

these issues have been addressed for the most part
dragging them back up is just an attempt at changing the talking points

Suppressing them is just an attempt to conceal pertinent facts.

I agree
But everyone here knows it is you here doing the suppressing

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

I live next to these things

Fair enough, let me ask you this then:

Would yo rather live next to that, or next to:
*oil refinery
*coal mine
*coal fired plant
*nuclear reactor
*oil platform
*fracking operation

?

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

Quote

I live next to these things

Fair enough, let me ask you this then:

Would yo rather live next to that, or next to:
*oil refinery
*coal mine
*coal fired plant
*nuclear reactor
*oil platform
*fracking operation

?

None of them really
The same anyone would say
In order best to worse (for me)
Nuke plant
fracking operation
oil platform
wind generator
coal fired plant
oil refinery
coal mine


How about you?

Of course I will assume you have been around a large wind generator enough to have an experienced opinion about them
Oh
And I have live within a couple of miles of a coal plant and and nuke plant

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

That's quite the nimby you are. You want the coal fired plants, and all the oil you can gorge yourself on….just as long as it isn't in your back yard.

I don't like the view of wind turbines…but I would take that over any of the other options in my back yard.

We have a wind turbine right downtown Toronto. Maybe that's why we are all sick….

[cvfd1399 0]

Where did he say he WANTED coal fired plants, and all the "oil he can gorge himself on"? He made a list of what he thought was best to worst to live by....

[SkyDekker 1,465]

cvfd1399

Where did he say he WANTED coal fired plants, and all the "oil he can gorge himself on"? He made a list of what he thought was best to worst to live by....

His posting history Anvil.

[jakee 1,564]

cvfd1399

Where did he say he WANTED coal fired plants, and all the "oil he can gorge himself on"?

All over this forum.

I think he works for a coal fired energy company as well.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[cvfd1399 0]

I'm not anvil please focus and not divert attention from your previous reply. Please post proof where he has stated this. If not its you words not his.

[cvfd1399 0]

If it's all over this forum that he wants coal fired plants, and all the oil he can gorge himself on please post the proof.

[rehmwa 2]

wmw999

Remember that the cost of cleanup and/or waste disposal needs to be included in the cost of each energy type. Downstream costs are just as valid as upstream costs.

Wendy P.

I find that weak if it's attempted to be forced on the business up front rather than as a consequence of doing business where the customers themselves assess that impact and respond via demand/supply.

Either party in charge could use that excuse to create any level of penal or supportive costing to try and 'level' out the 'fairness'. In no way would it be realistic or driven by real world concerns, only politics. (pretty much what is happening today and where the true fanatics are trying to push even farther - note we have advocates on this forum alone that 'feel' that gasoline should be taxed to push the price up over $10/gallon - and this is their convenient rationalization).

For example - if the actual costs of these 'downstream' penalties were about $3 per unit of energy, in reality, environmentalists will claim it's $50 and the world will end. the manufacturers would claim it's under $1 and that the fields will grow roses and golf courses and chipmunks will live healthy fun lives.

then - whoever was in charge would do whatever the hell they want based on payoffs and potential for a lot of votes.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

Quote

I live next to these things

Fair enough, let me ask you this then:

Would yo rather live next to that, or next to:
*oil refinery
*coal mine
*coal fired plant
*nuclear reactor
*oil platform
*fracking operation

?

duh - bikini model oiling staion


(the nuke seems like it has the potential to be done in the least intrusive fashion

alternatively, if I lived next to an oil platform, then it would depend on the quality of the yacht or rowboat that I own - living on the water would be cool or miserable depending on accommodations)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DanG 1]

Quote

I find that weak if it's attempted to be forced on the business up front rather than as a consequence of doing business where the customers themselves assess that impact and respond via demand/supply.

How are the customers supposed to assess econsystem damage that happens 100s of miles downstream?

That's what governments are for. To keep the rights of some from infringing on the rights of others.

- Dan G

[rehmwa 2]

DanG

That's what governments are for. To keep the rights of some from infringing on the rights of others.

sure sounds nice doesn't it? but that's just the very poorly hidden mask they wear

in practice it is really ensuring targetted infringement of others for the subjective benefit of select group or groups -

and yet we keep asking for more

"econsystem damage" - did you do that on purpose? if so, it's pretty clever and I like it. If not, it's still pretty clever.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants