What is so evil about requiring id to vote?

[jcd11235 0]

wolfriverjoe

I have been registered in more than one location. I may still be. I found this out when I moved back to my old town (a couple miles down the road) after I split with my then-wife. I went to register and found that I had never been "unregistered" when I moved down the road. Even though I had registered at my new address.

Same here. In principle, I could have voted in both locations. And I could have easily shown a picture ID at each place when doing so. A picture ID requirement won't remedy that potentially exploitable flaw in the system.

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[muff528 3]

jcd11235

***I have been registered in more than one location. I may still be. I found this out when I moved back to my old town (a couple miles down the road) after I split with my then-wife. I went to register and found that I had never been "unregistered" when I moved down the road. Even though I had registered at my new address.

Same here. In principle, I could have voted in both locations. And I could have easily shown a picture ID at each place when doing so. A picture ID requirement won't remedy that potentially exploitable flaw in the system.

Yes, in that case you could have voted in both locations by showing your ID at each polling place. (unless we're talking about completely different states ...like someone who might have residences in NYC and in Palm Beach.) But you now would have knowingly committed a felony and there would now be verifiable documentation identifying you as a committer of voter fraud ...verified by the photo ID. All that's necessary now is an arrest and conviction. Also, the ID should also verify to the poll workers that you are a resident in that particular voting precinct. Otherwise, further verification of residence might be required, i.e., a utility bill or such. The "exploitable flaw" in the system now is actually a way to catch fraudsters.

here's the back of my voter ID card (maybe they only put this on the back of Repub ID cards.) ...

[BartsDaddy 7]

How do we know illegal voting is less then illegal gun purchases. Unless you actually look for it rather then hide your head in the sand and say it ain't happening it ain't happening.

But at the same time the same people will say it is OK for me to have to pass a test have current state I'd and a utility bill from the last 30 days or a car registration in my name to exercise my 2nd amendments right and that is perfectly acceptable huh?
When those laws disenfranchise the same people you are say voter I'd laws disenfranchise.

But I see it is different if you want to vote or provide dinner.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[Stumpy 284]

BartsDaddy

Unless you actually look for it rather then hide your head in the sand and say it ain't happening it ain't happening.

Please cite the study that shows it is a significant problem.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[jcd11235 0]

muff528

But you now would have knowingly committed a felony and there would now be verifiable documentation identifying you as a committer of voter fraud

As is currently the case. As verified by signature, those things that are sufficient for legal contracts.

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Also, the ID should also verify to the poll workers that you are a resident in that particular voting precinct.

No it wouldn't. Lots of people live at an address different from their ID.

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Otherwise, further verification of residence might be required, i.e., a utility bill or such.

Like now? So, nothing changes, except requiring a picture ID, solving nothing, except disenfranchising citizens with no picture ID.

Why aren't you concerned about the people who get utility bills for addresses other than their residence? How will requiring a picture ID prevent them from voting in multiple precincts?

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The "exploitable flaw" in the system now is actually a way to catch fraudsters.

What fraudsters would those be? The imaginary ones of which the Republicans want us to be scared? How about a

If the Republicans were actually concerned about potential voter fraud, they would propose something that closes holes in the system instead of disenfranchising voters. Requiring a picture ID doesn't do that.

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[cvfd1399 0]

Ok I see the situation here, partially my fault for not clarifying.

When I talk about voter ID requirements, its tied to registration. Otherwise why the hell else would you need to show them an ID, its not like they know everyone that is going to show them one by name.

Its sad that I had to point that out to you, but you have extreme tunnel vision when it comes to topics, then use them to exploit your position.

[BartsDaddy 7]

Please define hiding your head in the sand. is no research show me the research nobody wants to research. Absolutely brilliant.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[muff528 3]

jcd11235

***But you now would have knowingly committed a felony and there would now be verifiable documentation identifying you as a committer of voter fraud

As is currently the case. As verified by signature, those things that are sufficient for legal contracts.

You don't provide ID when you are signing legal contracts?

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***Also, the ID should also verify to the poll workers that you are a resident in that particular voting precinct.

No it wouldn't. Lots of people live at an address different from their ID.

State of Florida requires update to ID or DL when address is changed.

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***Otherwise, further verification of residence might be required, i.e., a utility bill or such.

Like now? So, nothing changes, except requiring a picture ID, solving nothing, except disenfranchising citizens with no picture ID.

Why aren't you concerned about the people who get utility bills for addresses other than their residence? How will requiring a picture ID prevent them from voting in multiple precincts?

It won't. But they're more likely to get caught

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***The "exploitable flaw" in the system now is actually a way to catch fraudsters.

What fraudsters would those be? The imaginary ones of which the Republicans want us to be scared?

The ones like your example in post #76.

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If the Republicans were actually concerned about potential voter fraud, they would propose something that closes holes in the system instead of disenfranchising voters. Requiring a picture ID doesn't do that.

I'm suggesting state-issued photo IDs. Free if necessary. What is your suggestion?

[Stumpy 284]

BartsDaddy

Please define hiding your head in the sand. is no research show me the research nobody wants to research. Absolutely brilliant.

Apart from your post not making any sense, if there was a genuine, statistically significant problem I am sure the GOP would have had a study commissioned by an independent body to prove it beyond doubt.

Saying "you are hiding your head in the sand" is a conspiracy theorists tactic when they have no evidence of something. Seems appropriate.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[cvfd1399 0]

http://www.nhregister.com/government-and-politics/20140926/bridgeport-state-rep-christina-ayala-arrested-on-19-voting-fraud-charges

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State Rep. Christina “Tita” Ayala, D-Bridgeport, was arrested Friday on 19 voting fraud charges.

Ayala, 31, is accused of voting in local and state elections in districts she did not live, the Chief State’s Attorney’s Office said in a press release.

Honestly just google "arrest voter fraud". It highlights the need to secure the integrity of the voting process.

[Stumpy 284]

It appears you don't know the meaning of the words "statistically significant".
But good to know you support increased government legislation and regulation where there is not a proven problem.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[cvfd1399 0]

Ooh I know the meaning, what do you expect us to do post every Google result, then have a seperate debate on how much exactly equals a significant ammount?

Usually one offender is enough for you guys to say that's too much, but I guess that only applies to bad cops.

[Stumpy 284]

cvfd1399

Ooh I know the meaning, what do you expect us to do post every Google result, then have a seperate debate on how much exactly equals a significant ammount?

Usually one offender is enough for you guys to say that's too much, but I guess that only applies to bad cops.

So no evidence then? Thought not.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[cvfd1399 0]

I posted you a good example for voter fraud that had plenty of evidence. Also suggested you search for more yourself, it's there plain as day. I agree it's not rampant voter fraud, but what exactly is the tipping point before you decide to close the door? You choose to ignore it.

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So no evidence then? Thought not

What a childish reply

[jcd11235 0]

cvfd1399

When I talk about voter ID requirements, its tied to registration. Otherwise why the hell else would you need to show them an ID, its not like they know everyone that is going to show them one by name.

That isn't what most picture ID to vote proposals do. They don't require everyone to re-register to vote.

For argument's sake, your proposal changes nothing except disenfranchising citizens without a picture ID. It wouldn't prevent people from registering and voting in multiple precincts.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[muff528 3]

Stumpy

***Ooh I know the meaning, what do you expect us to do post every Google result, then have a seperate debate on how much exactly equals a significant ammount?

Usually one offender is enough for you guys to say that's too much, but I guess that only applies to bad cops.

So no evidence then? Thought not.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/news/2014/voter-fraud-investigation.htm

http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/21/investigations-underway-suspected-voter-fraud-in-virginia-and-maryland/

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/state-launches-fraud-investigation-voter-registrat/nhJxg/

http://kstp.com/news/stories/S3488477.shtml?cat=1

http://www.krgv.com/news/judge-orders-new-election-in-weslaco-city-commission-race/#.U58WvS4LWeY.twitter

http://www.tauntongazette.com/article/20140610/NEWS/306119992/11158/NEWS

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2014/05/12/election-officials-weigh-double-voting/9013815/

http://www.loscerritosnews.net/2014/04/21/complaint-against-robert-garcia-suggests-voter-fraud-in-lb-mayor-campaign/

http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/Woman-Arrested-In-NV-On-Voter-Fraud-256054321.html

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-politics/2014/05/08/iowa-secretary-of-state-voter-fraud-report-matt-schultz/8858595/

http://www.wtvy.com/home/headlines/Three-Houston-County-Women-Accused-of-Felony-Voter-Fraud-258675191.html

http://wvxu.org/post/two-more-indicted-vote-fraud-hamilton-county

http://www.northjersey.com/news/arraignment-postponed-for-paterson-councilman-wife-in-election-fraud-indictment-1.1012557

http://wiat.com/2014/05/01/alabama-supreme-court-look-voter-fraud-allegations/

[Stumpy 284]

The tipping point for me would be if the voter fraud has the ability to affect the election result, then there needs to be something done. Currently, this does not appear to be the case however the measures being put forward to "combat" this fraud MAY WELL affect the election result, having a much larger affect than the problem itself. (Which, if you are honest with yourself you will admit. The GOP wins when turnout is low, the Dems win when turnout is high therefore it makes sense for the GOP to restrict turnout.)

If you are going to do it, do it properly. Found this on a comment thread when reading up about this:

1. Federal elections should be under federal, not state, purview.
2. House Districts should be parsed by a federal civil service commission, not politicians.
3. All citizens should have a national ID based on either a state birth certificate delivered under seal or naturalization papers. They show the ID when they vote.

Also - make it free, and make a real effort to help as many people as possible in all areas to get registered. Give it a couple of presidential terms to make sure there is plenty of time for those who have issues with documentation to sort things out.
It probably only needs the constitution changed a couple of times but hey if it stops those handful of people committing voter fraud it'll be worth it - right?

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

It wouldn't prevent people from registering and voting in multiple precincts.

No joke that's why I assumed we were all talking about voter id being required to compare to the name on the polling place books that were compiled through voter registration. They go hand in hand..or else what are they going to compare the id to? I even specified how they do it in my state and how it would prevent all this as a model to follow.

[cvfd1399 0]

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Which, if you are honest with yourself you will admit. The GOP wins when turnout is low, the Dems win when turnout is high therefore it makes sense for the GOP to restrict turnout.)

I will go along with that as long as you agree that it benefits the dems to lax border security and voter security to allow illegal immigrants to vote for them while promising benefits.

[jcd11235 0]

cvfd1399

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It wouldn't prevent people from registering and voting in multiple precincts.

I assumed we were all talking about voter id being required to compare to the name on the polling place books that were compiled through voter registration.

That already happens. No photo ID required.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Stumpy 284]

cvfd1399

I will go along with that as long as you agree that it benefits the dems to lax border security and voter security to allow illegal immigrants to vote for them while promising benefits.

Who is trying to relax border security?

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[turtlespeed 220]

kallend

***I call shenanigans. Remove your ID from your wallet and try to function in society for a few weeks and let me know how that works out for you: getting money, getting alcohol or cigarettes, using a check, using your credit card, jumping at a new drop zone, buying a car, buying a house, walking down the street when some cop randomly wants to know who your are (Which tons of people ironically support forcing people to identify themselves even though there is no legal requirement for people to identify themselves when simply moving about in society), selling anything to a scrap yard or pawn shop, visiting a doctors office, receiving a package from a shipper, getting a new job, getting any kind of hunting or fishing license, buying super glue at wal-mart, buying cold/flue OTC meds when you are obviously sick at walgreens, purchasing spray paint at wal-mart to cover the winter rust on our trailer hitchm, getting on an airplane, getting a new library card, receiving your college transcripts ......and these are just a few of the things I can think of off the top of my head without much thought that I have recently been required to show my ID for.

Nonsense. The only time I get asked for my drivers license is when boarding a domestic flight.

Try buying pseudofed for cold symptoms. Try buying pain meds the doctor prescribed to you.

Besides, when could you vote anyway?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jcd11235 0]

turtlespeed

Try buying pseudofed for cold symptoms. Try buying pain meds the doctor prescribed to you.

Try going to a pharmacy where employees know you.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[turtlespeed 220]

jakee

***I call shenanigans. Remove your ID from your wallet and try to function in society for a few weeks and let me know how that works out for you: getting money, getting alcohol or cigarettes, using a check, using your credit card, jumping at a new drop zone, buying a car, buying a house, walking down the street when some cop randomly wants to know who your are (Which tons of people ironically support forcing people to identify themselves even though there is no legal requirement for people to identify themselves when simply moving about in society), selling anything to a scrap yard or pawn shop, visiting a doctors office, receiving a package from a shipper, getting a new job, getting any kind of hunting or fishing license, buying super glue at wal-mart, buying cold/flue OTC meds when you are obviously sick at walgreens, purchasing spray paint at wal-mart to cover the winter rust on our trailer hitchm, getting on an airplane, getting a new library card, receiving your college transcripts ......and these are just a few of the things I can think of off the top of my head without much thought that I have recently been required to show my ID for.

You must be a) one seriously sketchy looking motherfucker or b) resemble a 16yo if you're being asked for ID for all of that!

I can't remember the last time I needed ID for anything except airports.

Here, they ask you to verify your identity, to see if it matches the name on the credit card you are trying to use.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jcd11235 0]

turtlespeed

Here, they ask you to verify your identity, to see if it matches the name on the credit card you are trying to use.

That's pretty unusual. I rarely even have to hand the clerk my card these days.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!