RonD1120 62 #101 October 22, 2014 Here is a good rule of thumb. If I am writing about my Lord, the Bible, or substance use disorder I am serious. Any other topic is a toss up. When I am asked I will respond honestly. All my life I have taken great pleasure in saying or doing the unexpected. At 72 my main avenues for expression are the internet and my church. You should see the looks I get sometimes with those folks. I encourage holy boldness with my brothers and sisters in Christ. I am becoming involved with some military veteran groups up here. Generally, for me anyways, I have found that military vets in recovery are the most amiable to off the wall humor and/or behavior. This is especially true if they ride motorcycles and like guns. Back in the day, sport parachutists used fit in this group. Sadly, this is not the case any longer. They have become too temperamental. Have a great day. Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #102 October 22, 2014 QuoteIt is easy to understand a source that is ALWAYS truthful or ALWAYS lies. The problem is when a source does some of each and you don't know which is which. The bible is such a source. The Truth contained in the Bible is written in the minds/souls of those it has delivered from self destructive behavior (evil). The Truth has given us the ability to see the goodness of God and a means of healing the ravages caused by sin. The Bible is not a science book, it's Truth is measured by action and effect. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #103 October 22, 2014 QuoteBack to my original point. the omnipotent, omniscient, all-empowering god who created everything, also created the evil I guess, and the disease and the scourge on the earth and the destruction of humanity and the cancer and the earth that allows natural disasters that kill hundreds of thousands of people in a tsunami. Yes I guess that is correct, if He didn't create it directly He created the means where others could create it. What ever the source it is where we find ourselves. One thing I can attest to personally, is that He also gives us the means to escape it, and attempt to live the life He had planned for us. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,499 #104 October 22, 2014 QuoteOne thing I can attest to personally, is that He also gives us the means to escape it, and attempt to live the life He had planned for us. Truism alert. He gives you the means to escape bad things, unless it's something inescapable like dying from ebola, in which case that was just The Plan. God's one clever dude to cover all the bases like that.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #105 October 22, 2014 jakeeQuoteOne thing I can attest to personally, is that He also gives us the means to escape it, and attempt to live the life He had planned for us. Truism alert. He gives you the means to escape bad things, unless it's something inescapable like dying from ebola, in which case that was just The Plan. God's one clever dude to cover all the bases like that. God loves us, which is why he created smallpox, ebola, polio, malaria, typhoid, cholera, cancer, earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis, etc. It's pretty clear.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #106 October 22, 2014 tkhayeswhat Kallend said above.... Science is 'always right'....once it has been tested and becomes established. (i.e. 2+2=4. DNA molecules exist and can be mapped) And when they find the occasional time that it is wrong, or new information arises, they actually correct it, re-examine it, re-issue it and continue on with the 'right stuff'. (i.e. the world was flat, but is no longer flat) Sorry, science is not always right, and your quote marks and a loose description of the scientific method isn't enough to make that statement true. Science can be wrong for long periods of time, even without the affects of religious or government authority. It was only in the 80s that we finally figured out that most ulcers are caused by H. pylori rather than stress. Nutritional science is challenging economics for vagueness and untruths these days. So long as scientists present their best guesses given data as truths (and plenty do this), let's embrace the scientific model for what it is, rather than call it 'right.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #107 October 22, 2014 Well, to be fair to God, if he didn't create all those bad things, there wouldn't be any "miraculous deliverances" from them, now would there? How could we have people "Saved By God's Grace", those who survive impossible situations (being buried by an earthquake for a week, being blown out to sea by a storm and surviving for several days, you know what I mean) if God didn't create those situations in the first place. Nevermind the hundreds or thousands that die in order for these "miracles" to seem so great. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aphid 0 #108 October 22, 2014 Pfffft. All these pale in comparison the number of touchdowns He's(She's) responsible for in American football. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #109 October 22, 2014 QuoteThe Truth contained in the Bible is written in the minds/souls of those it has delivered from self destructive behavior ....etc etc which does not make it true...just makes it 'true' for you. Good for you, but just because you believe does not make it reality....it only possibly makes it YOUR reality. 2+2 is still 4, regardless of what you believe. And if the Bible truth is measured by actions and effects, then history clearly demonstrates what an evil piece it can be. So good for you, again, happy you can find solace or whatever in it. Keep it to yourself/your family and every time someone comes to my govt/school/political/social whatever and tries to say "This is the way...", I will be there to tell them to knock it off, not happening on my watch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #110 October 23, 2014 QuoteTruism alert. He gives you the means to escape bad things, unless it's something inescapable like dying from ebola, in which case that was just The Plan. God's one clever dude to cover all the bases like that. It's not the inevitable physical suffering & death we need to be saved from. None of us make it out of here alive. It is salvation from spiritual depravity and despair that God is offering. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #111 October 23, 2014 Quotewhich does not make it true...just makes it 'true' for you. Good for you, but just because you believe does not make it reality....it only possibly makes it YOUR reality. 2+2 is still 4, regardless of what you believe. And if the Bible truth is measured by actions and effects, then history clearly demonstrates what an evil piece it can be. So good for you, again, happy you can find solace or whatever in it. Keep it to yourself/your family and every time someone comes to my govt/school/political/social whatever and tries to say "This is the way...", I will be there to tell them to knock it off, not happening on my watch. It is imperative that we all genuinely seek the Truth in reality and allow others the freedom to do the same. Government and laws will hopefully be there to protect that right. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #112 October 23, 2014 While we're at it... 2+2=4 is not science. He used i.e. when he meant e.g. (Unless he really did mean i.e. in which case that was a really bizarre clarification.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #113 October 23, 2014 QuoteIt's not the inevitable physical suffering & death we need to be saved from. None of us make it out of here alive. It is salvation from spiritual depravity and despair that God is offering. ...in your interpretation, which is only one of millions and millions of interpretations of the exact same religion made over centuries. I was raised a Christian, studied for years, but your particular interpretation stated here was never taught to me. again, YOUR thoughts, YOUR interpretation, YOUR salvation, YOUR whatever...not based in any reality except YOURS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #114 October 23, 2014 math·e·mat·ics maTH(ə)ˈmadiks/ noun noun: mathematics; noun: applied mathematics; noun: pure mathematics the abstract science of number, quantity, and space. Mathematics may be studied in its own right ( pure mathematics ), or as it is applied to other disciplines such as physics and engineering ( applied mathematics ). the mathematical aspects of something. plural noun: mathematics "the mathematics of general relativity" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 803 #115 October 23, 2014 What if one doesn't have "spiritual depravity and despair"? I don't need salvation from something made up that I don't have, feel, or imagine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #116 October 23, 2014 Certain branches of mathematics may be considered science when studied in certain ways but I would argue arithmetic (and more specifically a single arithmatic statement) is not one of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #117 October 23, 2014 champuCertain branches of mathematics may be considered science when studied in certain ways but I would argue arithmetic (and more specifically a single arithmatic statement) is not one of them. That's a very COMPLEX arithmetic statement. It took Russell and Whitehead over 300 pages to conclude that 1+1 = 2... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #118 October 23, 2014 kallend***Certain branches of mathematics may be considered science when studied in certain ways but I would argue arithmetic (and more specifically a single arithmatic statement) is not one of them. That's a very COMPLEX arithmetic statement. It took Russell and Whitehead over 300 pages to conclude that 1+1 = 2 I didn't say arithmetic couldn't get complex very quickly (reading Gödel's work makes me sleepy) I just suggested it wasn't science. I think the distinction between science and logic is important. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,499 #119 October 23, 2014 champu I didn't say arithmetic couldn't get complex very quickly (reading Gödel's work makes me sleepy) I just suggested it wasn't science. I think the distinction between science and logic is important. Another way to look at it...My passing view is that maths is maths and science is maths applied to reality (and engineering is science fudged until it fits). Not ready to get bent out of shape over it though.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #120 October 23, 2014 my example is one of possibly tens of thousands of simple scientific statements that would be given as fact that never change. I chose 2+2=4. Just because you disagree with that one particular example does not in any way demise the basis of the argument I made. My argument stands, and you know EXACTLY what I meant by it and you chose to nit-pick basically. religion has millions of interpretations. There are no such interpretations when it comes to 2+2.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #121 October 23, 2014 tkhayes religion has millions of interpretations. There are no such interpretations when it comes to 2+2.... sort of - because 2+2 is closer to a tautology. It is a part of the definition of the base 10 counting system. Now if you had wrote 1+1=2, I could have replied that it really is 1+1=10 to more entities on earth than humans. And avoiding the nicpicks (you responding to Champu rather than me), science != truth. That's as religious an argument as the ones you're trying to decry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #122 October 23, 2014 normissWhat if one doesn't have "spiritual depravity and despair"? I don't need salvation from something made up that I don't have, feel, or imagine. If that is indeed true then you owe it to the world to share your secret. But keep in mind there is nothing more difficult to see than one's own evil. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 803 #123 October 23, 2014 It's troubling that someone that doesn't know me views me as evil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #124 October 23, 2014 QuoteI was raised a Christian, studied for years, but your particular interpretation stated here was never taught to me. again, YOUR thoughts, YOUR interpretation, YOUR salvation, YOUR whatever...not based in any reality except YOURS. Interesting, sounds like you might have been schooled in christian religion, which I also reject. And yes, the reality of the Bible is not on the page but in the individual minds of those that hear it. Each one being unique. By a persons actions you can know if the Truth of God resides in him or her. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #125 October 23, 2014 kelpdiver***what Kallend said above.... Science is 'always right'....once it has been tested and becomes established. (i.e. 2+2=4. DNA molecules exist and can be mapped) And when they find the occasional time that it is wrong, or new information arises, they actually correct it, re-examine it, re-issue it and continue on with the 'right stuff'. (i.e. the world was flat, but is no longer flat) Sorry, science is not always right, and your quote marks and a loose description of the scientific method isn't enough to make that statement true. Science can be wrong for long periods of time, even without the affects of religious or government authority. It was only in the 80s that we finally figured out that most ulcers are caused by H. pylori rather than stress. Nutritional science is challenging economics for vagueness and untruths these days. So long as scientists present their best guesses given data as truths (and plenty do this), let's embrace the scientific model for what it is, rather than call it 'right.' And it's always entertaining to see how suddenly humble and unwilling to debate genomics one becomes when speaking to their cancer doctor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
