If you've done nothing wrong...

[kallend 2,027]

How do you feel about these developments?
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/01/the-future-of-getting-arrested/383507/?google_editors_picks=true

Excerpt:
Devices designed to detect questionable activity are proliferating. Several cities have recently put in place networks of microphone-based gunshot sensors, and others are likely to adopt similar systems. When a sensor picks up a suspicious noise, a computer program analyzes the sound and, if it resembles gunfire, determines its point of origin to within a few yards. A human reviews the report and, if warranted, dispatches officers to the scene—all within about 40 seconds of the gunshot. Meanwhile, a Vancouver company is testing marijuana breathalyzers that can approximate the amount of THC in a person’s system; Guohua Li, an epidemiologist at Columbia University, thinks they will probably be in routine use within five years. Police may also start making use of intelligent surveillance cameras equipped with sensors that can identify abnormal or suspicious behavior. According to Jennifer Lynch of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, such technology is being tested in several American cities and is already sophisticated enough to “notice” when someone leaves a bag unattended, or when a car repeatedly circles the same block.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Croc 0]

More evidence that the "Wars on Terror, Drugs, etc." (others, TBA) are simply wars on ordinary citizens.

Soma anyone?

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[D22369 0]

microphones to detect gunshots - I like - if there is a gunshot in the city its either an illegal offensive use or a defensive use of a weapon and the faster the police can get there the better.

THC breathalyzer - I like - driving while impaired by anything is not good, I watched a man die when I was age 6 in front of our truck who was impaired, if the turn light would have changed at the wrong moment and we pulled out he would have killed all of us instead of just himself, the telephone pole, tree, and the house he came to rest in.
I am very against driving while impaired by anything.

Intelligent surveillance camera's... not so much - imagine shopping or just living in a big city and circling the block to find parking to go into your apartment, or dropping a package off at a friends house or shop at the door - could get you a very hostile visit from some very well armed men.

although I don't really like the idea of the surveillance camera's I could see how they would be good for area's where large crowds gather like times square, statue of liberty - things like that where detecting a package bomb could mean life or death.
Brrrrrr..... How Orwellien we are becoming


Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[masterrig 1]

Our government's best jokes!


Chuck

[grue 1]

anyone who says "I have nothing to hide" or "I've done nothing wrong" is either naive or stupid.

Edit: Or malicious.

cavete terrae.

[Anvilbrother 0]

grue

anyone who says "I have nothing to hide" or "I've done nothing wrong" is either naive or stupid.

Edit: Or malicious.

I think that people who state what you have stated wish to hide things, and do not want others to say it for fear that it will be the more popular opinion and will hinder your ability to carry out illegal or shady things.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Andy9o8 2]

D22369

microphones to detect gunshots - I like - if there is a gunshot in the city its either an illegal offensive use or a defensive use of a weapon and the faster the police can get there the better.

THC breathalyzer - I like - driving while impaired by anything is not good, I watched a man die when I was age 6 in front of our truck who was impaired, if the turn light would have changed at the wrong moment and we pulled out he would have killed all of us instead of just himself, the telephone pole, tree, and the house he came to rest in.
I am very against driving while impaired by anything.

Intelligent surveillance camera's... not so much - imagine shopping or just living in a big city and circling the block to find parking to go into your apartment, or dropping a package off at a friends house or shop at the door - could get you a very hostile visit from some very well armed men.

although I don't really like the idea of the surveillance camera's I could see how they would be good for area's where large crowds gather like times square, statue of liberty - things like that where detecting a package bomb could mean life or death.
Brrrrrr..... How Orwellien we are becoming

Agreed on all points, especially #1-3, for the reasons you state.

Re: #4, mostly agree. While I agree that you don't really have an expectation of privacy (especially visual privacy) when you're out in a public place, the Orwellian aspect gives me the willies. I don't like the idea of technology eavesdropping on phone calls without a warrant, or being able to listen to or lip-read my private conversations with people, even in a public place.

FWIW, surveillance cameras are how police ID'd & apprehended the (alleged) Boston Marathon bombers so quickly; and they also provided key evidence to help convict Timothy McVeigh of the Oklahoma City bombing.

[normiss 803]

Why would you not support our constitutional rights?

[wmw999 2,452]

That's a pretty suspicious mindset there. The vast majority of people I know have done or said things they're glad aren't in the newspaper or on Facebook or something like that. Do you really know that many people who have never erred in an embarrassing way?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Andy9o8 2]

Anvilbrother

***anyone who says "I have nothing to hide" or "I've done nothing wrong" is either naive or stupid.

Edit: Or malicious.

I think that people who state what you have stated wish to hide things, and do not want others to say it for fear that it will be the more popular opinion and will hinder your ability to carry out illegal or shady things.

Don't be naive. If surveillance inhibits my right to protest against the government using the military to war-monger and torture, it also inhibits your right to protest against government over-taxation and anemic policies on immigration. The government that wants to monitor my First Amendment-protected phone calls and e-mails is the same one that wants to keep close track of your Second Amendment-protected firearms so they can easily seize them after a natural disaster when you need them to guard against looters.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Why would you not support our constitutional rights?

What part of the constitution is gunshot detectors, and traffic cameras breaking?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

That's a pretty suspicious mindset there. The vast majority of people I know have done or said things they're glad aren't in the newspaper or on Facebook or something like that. Do you really know that many people who have never erred in an embarrassing way?

Embarassing or illegal? Do you really think that the NSA is out to find out wendys deepest darkest secret and tell her boss or put it on facebook?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[normiss 803]

"I think that people who state what you have stated wish to hide things, and do not want others to say it for fear that it will be the more popular opinion and will hinder your ability to carry out illegal or shady things. "

I didn't notice you say anything in there about those, so I'm not sure what you mean.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Don't be naive. If surveillance inhibits my right to protest against the government using the military to war-monger and torture, it also inhibits your right to protest against government over-taxation and anemic policies on immigration. The government that wants to monitor my First Amendment-protected phone calls and e-mails is the same one that wants to keep close track of your Second Amendment-protected firearms so they can easily seize them after a natural disaster when you need them to guard against looters.

So when a "prepper" prepares for social breakdown caused by the government(by doing things like exactly like you just suggested) people like you, TK, and Kallend call them paranoid idots. But you spew the same bullshit from this "you've done nothing wrong angle", and now that same government awareness and preparation for their overreach mindset is what everyone should be doing? Can you see the hypocritical writing on the wall?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Anvilbrother 0]

Stick to your own reply, and tell me what constitution the gun shot detectors are breaking? Your the one who stated the constitution thing. You cant back up the bullshit one liner you spewed. Thought so.....

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Andy9o8 2]

Anvilbrother

Quote

Don't be naive. If surveillance inhibits my right to protest against the government using the military to war-monger and torture, it also inhibits your right to protest against government over-taxation and anemic policies on immigration. The government that wants to monitor my First Amendment-protected phone calls and e-mails is the same one that wants to keep close track of your Second Amendment-protected firearms so they can easily seize them after a natural disaster when you need them to guard against looters.

So when a "prepper" prepares for social breakdown caused by the government(by doing things like exactly like you just suggested) people like you, TK, and Kallend call them paranoid idots. But you spew the same bullshit from this "you've done nothing wrong angle", and now that same government awareness and preparation for their overreach mindset is what everyone should be doing? Can you see the hypocritical writing on the wall?

No.
And I have nothing against preppers. Sometimes I even wear khakis and golf shirts. I don't wear penny loafers, though - no arch support.

But let's get back into the spirit of things. You're paranoid, and have anger issues. Oh, and I'll let TK and John speak for themselves, but you're totally making shit up to mischaracterize me.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

You're paranoid, and have anger issues.

How am I being paranoid by telling you to chill out, that your fear of a secret government agency taking over your life by spying isnt going to happen? Isnt that the OPPOSITE of being paranoid???

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[grue 1]

Anvilbrother

***anyone who says "I have nothing to hide" or "I've done nothing wrong" is either naive or stupid.

Edit: Or malicious.

I think that people who state what you have stated wish to hide things, and do not want others to say it for fear that it will be the more popular opinion and will hinder your ability to carry out illegal or shady things.

If you've got nothing to hide, go ahead and post your login details for all of your social media accounts, your email accounts, your banks, and so forth.

Then we can check against the hundreds of thousands of pages of laws to see which you've broken, because rest assured, you have broken some.

cavete terrae.

[champu 1]

The problem with any of these things is the old saying that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Law enforcement finds technology attractive when they determine it makes their job easier to perform, who wouldn't? Only trouble is, this is orthogonal to whether it accurately performs as advertised. Google "Iraqi Police Bomb Detector" if you don't believe me.

This all sounds great at first blush, until a the THC breathalyzer hits on anyone who has even been around pot in the last month and the pattern cameras hit on someone really stubborn about parking spaces and now both people are sitting on the side of the road with door panels being taken off their car. Or "sorry buddy, the gunshot detector sent us, so we're tossing your apartment. These things are very accurate, don'cha know."

If police had a magic eight-ball where 7/8 possible sides just said "probable cause!" and a judge who would admit it they would be using that thing constantly.

[normiss 803]

I don't think you understand how conversations work.

I was replying to your statement regarding your paranoia.

Oh, and it's "you're".

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

If you've got nothing to hide, go ahead and post your login details for all of your social media accounts, your email accounts, your banks, and so forth.

Then we can check against the hundreds of thousands of pages of laws to see which you've broken, because rest assured, you have broken some.

You seriously think via social media the government isnt already monitoring us? You dont think banks already monitor trends and deposits for illegal activities? Same goes for email. I also have broken no laws via a computer I can GUARANTEE you.


I love how quick people are to jump on those with my mindset. I never stated I OPENLY welcome billions of dollars to be poured into a NSA type agency, nor have I stated that I OPENLY welcome free and unchecked powers by such an agency.

At this point in time the official use of these tools by the government is for purposes of good. Sure some asshole somewhere is monitoring emails to blackmail some girlfriend, you have private IT people that do it every day. Its paranoid and very tin foil hat to start freaking out about gunshot monitors, traffic cameras, and wire taps at this point. When the time comes that it is the MO of the gov to use these things for bad, and its easily and commonly agreed upon by all that it has gotten out of hand, then I will stand with you. But for now its "sky is falling" prepper mentality that I am seeing.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

your paranoia.

You keep using this word but I dont think you know what it means....

Quote

Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.[1] Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat towards oneself

You are the ones that are paranoid of the government spying I am stating the EXACT opposite and stating to chill out its not that big of a deal. Please dont talk to me about your, and you're if you cant even get that basic shit.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[grue 1]

Anvilbrother

Quote

If you've got nothing to hide, go ahead and post your login details for all of your social media accounts, your email accounts, your banks, and so forth.

Then we can check against the hundreds of thousands of pages of laws to see which you've broken, because rest assured, you have broken some.

You seriously think via social media the government isnt already monitoring us? You dont think banks already monitor trends and deposits for illegal activities? Same goes for email. I also have broken no laws via a computer I can GUARANTEE you.


I love how quick people are to jump on those with my mindset. I never stated I OPENLY welcome billions of dollars to be poured into a NSA type agency, nor have I stated that I OPENLY welcome free and unchecked powers by such an agency.

At this point in time the official use of these tools by the government is for purposes of good. Sure some asshole somewhere is monitoring emails to blackmail some girlfriend, you have private IT people that do it every day. Its paranoid and very tin foil hat to start freaking out about gunshot monitors, traffic cameras, and wire taps at this point. When the time comes that it is the MO of the gov to use these things for bad, and its easily and commonly agreed upon by all that it has gotten out of hand, then I will stand with you. But for now its "sky is falling" prepper mentality that I am seeing.

"A stitch in time saves nine" would be the proverb of choice here.

Also if you can "GUARANTEE" me that you've broken no laws via computer, please post all laws that you have not broken, with your initials on each for verification.

I very much doubt the government is actively spying on me. My issue is that if they decide to fuck ANYONE over, they can. It's trivial because our system is so fundamentally broken, with so many laws that it's impossible to be sure at any moment you aren't breaking one of them.

cavete terrae.

[normiss 803]

That was actually my first use of that word in this thread.
You really need to work on your conversation skills.

I'm not paranoid, I just believe we have rights. I stand by them. You think we've done all these bad and shady things we are hiding from you...get a warrant.
Until then, leave me be.
That's how some rights work.

[champu 1]

Anvilbrother

Its paranoid and very tin foil hat to start freaking out about gunshot monitors, traffic cameras, and wire taps at this point. When the time comes that it is the MO of the gov to use these things for bad, and its easily and commonly agreed upon by all that it has gotten out of hand, then I will stand with you. But for now its "sky is falling" prepper mentality that I am seeing.

The reason for the aversion to the "If you've done nothing wrong..." attitude is because the above statements are made under the (often incorrect) assumption that the speaker is immune to any issues that may come up.

The phrase "easily and commonly agreed upon by all..." is 200 proof bullshit. What I think you meant to say was "when this negatively affects me me me me MEEEEEEEEE"