Is $1.99 gallon gas good for the USA?

[rushmc 23]

DanG

Quote

Just out of curiousity, given your point above, what do you think of this?

Sounds like a bad idea, but that's based only on the article you linked. How do you feel about it?

Tend to agree with you
I only know what Bill has shared a while back and what this article says too

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[CanuckInUSA 0]

DanG

Don't be obnoxious. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a "low information voter".

I was not referring to you when I thought about the legion of low information fools who following this complete idiot as the new Messiah and Savior of Humanity who is on record as saying Fracking needs to be banned and never gets called out by his media friends as the uninformed moron that he is. But I got to say I am jealous of his talents for taking a nice selfie. Clearly these days you don't need to know how economies work, you don't have to have any experience running any large organization before you become a world leader. Clearly these days the only skill one needs to be the leader of a G7 nation is the ability to take good selfies.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[billvon 3,063]

>Don't be obnoxious. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a "low information voter".

Everyone likes to think that they are in the know, that other people are uninformed "sheeple" lacking intelligence, initiative or information. It often cushions the pains of the many minor defeats of daily life. Much easier to think "well, I am a victim of ignorance and misinformation, not really my fault." It's something of a staple of Internet postings.

[mirage62 0]

Anyone recall the "living wage" debate? How raising the min wage would do all sorts of wonderful things to the economy?

At the high it cost me $88.00 to fill my car, today it was $37.00. (I do that about once a week) that leaves me $51.00. On a 40 hr work week that's like a $1.27 hr or $204.00 a month.

Now it doesn't matter if your rich or poor that across the board (although I drive a lot) so I got to think that the difference to the economy is significant.

I don't buy the "out of oil" comments, many of us have been around long enough to recall that we should be out BY NOW.

But.

It will run out and it is rough on the environment, it seem to me that we were making real head way toward alternative sources of fuel. I hate to see that stop.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[billvon 3,063]

>Now it doesn't matter if your rich or poor that across the board (although I drive a lot)
>so I got to think that the difference to the economy is significant.

As long as you can afford to drive. The people who can't afford it to begin with don't see much changing.

If we were smart we'd increase gas taxes now, such that we still saw a significant decrease in gas prices. Then when gas prices went back up (which they will once OPEC has decided they've hammered tight oil suppliers enough) we can reduce them and smooth out the shock of the increase. Of course to do that you'd need cooperation to both raise taxes (which one side would never agree with) and then lower them again later (which the other side wouldn't.)

So instead we will do something really stupid but popular, like lowering CAFE standards, so that the next time oil prices go up we are _really_ screwed.

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

>Of course to do that you'd need cooperation to both raise taxes (which one side would never agree with) and then lower them again later (which the other side wouldn't.)

^ what we think happens based on the caricatures


raise taxes (which both sides might agree to - after making a huge production about being against them)
then lower them later (which both sides will disagree with)

^ Reality

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

If we were smart we'd increase gas taxes now, such that we still saw a significant decrease in gas prices. Then when gas prices went back up (which they will once OPEC has decided they've hammered tight oil suppliers enough) we can reduce them and smooth out the shock of the increase. Of course to do that you'd need cooperation to both raise taxes (which one side would never agree with) and then lower them again later (which the other side wouldn't.)

Raising taxes is not the answer, also the taxes would never go away. I think people are still shell shocked over the last 8 years economy, and are glad for the relief. They will take the chance now that gas is lower to shore up their own defenses(pay off debt, save, invest) while they can because we all know its coming again. I would rather Americans free themselves of high interest debt than give more money to the government to WASTE.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[billvon 3,063]

>also the taxes would never go away.

Hence the problem. If we could guarantee that, then we'd provide a buffer against the next market manipulation by OPEC and the like - and they'd have less power to harm us in the future.

>They will take the chance now that gas is lower to shore up their own defenses(pay
>off debt, save, invest) while they can because we all know its coming again.

Unfortunately no; history has shown that this will mostly go to beer, SUV's, big TV's and the like. Look at all the people talking about "stimulating the economy" in the posts above. That economic stimulus doesn't come from people paying off their student loans, that comes from people buying that big TV they've had their eye on.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Well anyone that listens to Dave Ramsey like me better be doing what im doing, and working on those baby steps with that extra gas money! Those other fools gonna be hurting when it comes back around and it goes up.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[billvon 3,063]

>Well anyone that listens to Dave Ramsey like me better be doing what im doing

I think the people who plan well will continue to plan well - and the people with big credit card bills with nothing in the bank will continue to make those choices as well. Unfortunately the latter outnumber the former.

[mirage62 0]

Quote

If we were smart we'd increase gas taxes now, such that we still saw a significant decrease in gas prices. Then when gas prices went back up (which they will once OPEC has decided they've hammered tight oil suppliers enough) we can reduce them and smooth out the shock of the increase. Of course to do that you'd need cooperation to both raise taxes (which one side would never agree with) and then lower them again later (which the other side wouldn't.)

Yep, spot on. We could raise the taxes put some of the
extra money to road repair - hiring people - and drop back when gas goes up. I wouldn't favor a large increase but just a few pennies would add up real fast.

Aaaaaah what am I thinking??

Common sense approach to a problem...never work. One side has to LOSE!

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[wmw999 2,517]

Well, then we need to spread the word of Dave Ramsey. I'm not down with some of what he believes personally, but for people who want to solve their financial problems, even if they're big and stupid ones, he'll work with you. It's a solid plan that's do-able for many. It starts with getting the family together on the plan, because one person in a family can't do it -- that's one of the best things.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Anvilbrother 0]

Yea I dont believe in any of the god stuff, but his plan is pretty rock solid. Get an emergency fund, make a budget, assign a name to every dollar, and use the envelope system so you know where your money is going. Use a line item budget where you end up with 0, making every dollar work for you. Knock out debt smallest to largest, highest interest to lowest. Cut up credit cards, never take out money for anything but maybe a house, and use cash for everything. 3-6 months expenses, save for college, pay off house, then pay it forward.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

Look at all the people talking about "stimulating the economy" in the posts above. That economic stimulus doesn't come from people paying off their student loans, that comes from people buying that big TV they've had their eye on.

which also stimulates the economy - so your issue is that when people do get more of their own money, they just don't spend it the way you want them to?

(maybe they'd pay off their loans too if the system didn't make it so easy to forgive. maybe they'd have less loans if the system didn't force banks to give bad loans too, etc etc)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

mirage62

Common sense approach to a problem...never work. One side has to LOSE!

yes, but the sides are really

the people
the government

what Bill recommends is interesting, but the only win for the people is when taxes go down. the gov loses when they go down.

gov wins when it goes up, the people lose

unfortunately, the gov decides which way taxes go and the people don't

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,063]

>so your issue is that when people do get more of their own money, they just don't
>spend it the way you want them to?

?? No, they can spend it however they want. Were you answering something else?

[ryoder 1,590]

SkyDekker

Obviously the thouands employed in the oil industry (and secondary industries) who are about to lose their jobs may have a different view on this.

And it has begun: http://news.yahoo.com/schlumberger-cuts-9-000-jobs-due-low-oil-222259643.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[turtlespeed 226]

ryoder

***
Obviously the thouands employed in the oil industry (and secondary industries) who are about to lose their jobs may have a different view on this.

And it has begun: http://news.yahoo.com/schlumberger-cuts-9-000-jobs-due-low-oil-222259643.html

I wonder if they will report the real numbers on the jobless reports.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[cgriff 0]

Anvilbrother

Yea I dont believe in any of the god stuff, but his plan is pretty rock solid. Get an emergency fund, make a budget, assign a name to every dollar, and use the envelope system so you know where your money is going. Use a line item budget where you end up with 0, making every dollar work for you. Knock out debt smallest to largest, highest interest to lowest. Cut up credit cards, never take out money for anything but maybe a house, and use cash for everything. 3-6 months expenses, save for college, pay off house, then pay it forward.

Still astounds me how nearly everyone in the country can agree this is a good plan for a household, and yet, nearly no one in the country can agree this is a good plan for a country...

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

what Bill recommends is interesting, but the only win for the people is when taxes go down. the gov loses when they go down.

You don't think that the government paying down debt, increasing emergency funds, increase allocations for education etc is "good for the people".

Bill's idea to start smoothing out gas price fluctuations makes perfect sense.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

ryoder

***
Obviously the thouands employed in the oil industry (and secondary industries) who are about to lose their jobs may have a different view on this.

And it has begun: http://news.yahoo.com/schlumberger-cuts-9-000-jobs-due-low-oil-222259643.html

That report must be false. Rush keeps telling me that industry in the US is in great shape.

[ryoder 1,590]

gunsmokex

In the upper midwest the Keystone pipeline looks like it will go through bringing Candaian oil to the Texas refineries and there is another one that is proposed from North Dakota to Indiana. Not to mention that they tried to go through with a new refinery up here, it failed but there will be other refineries coming. Hell why not Detroit? Maybe that would save them up and bring them back to the greatness they once were.

Last night's Daily Show skewered *both* sides on the Keystone XL debate, and pointed out that not only will tar sand oil come into the US even w/o the pipeline, it is *already* coming in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHIwyxfQ2j8

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

You don't think that the government paying down debt, increasing emergency funds, increase allocations for education etc is "good for the people".

Bill's idea to start smoothing out gas price fluctuations makes perfect sense.

you note three separate things here

1 - I agree, responsible budgeting is a good idea
2 - increased allocations for an system designed to support a beaurocracy instead of teaching kids is a completely other topic. But it might apply when you are arguing to take away even more money from parents that just might use it for their kid's educations if they had a better option.
3 - artificially mucking with the market and prices is subject for debate (read as hijacking a private market as an excuse to take more money from the citizenry)

let alone the fact that the attitudes inherent in the thinking that gives us the problems behind #2 and #3 is a big symptom of why we have to deal with a system that doesn't get the concept of #1

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rehmwa

***You don't think that the government paying down debt, increasing emergency funds, increase allocations for education etc is "good for the people".

Bill's idea to start smoothing out gas price fluctuations makes perfect sense.

you note three separate things here

1 - I agree, responsible budgeting is a good idea
2 - increased allocations for an system designed to support a beaurocracy instead of teaching kids is a completely other topic. But it might apply when you are arguing to take away even more money from parents that just might use it for their kid's educations if they had a better option.
3 - artificially mucking with the market and prices is subject for debate (read as hijacking a private market as an excuse to take more money from the citizenry)

let alone the fact that the attitudes inherent in the thinking that gives us the problems behind #2 and #3 is a big symptom of why we have to deal with a system that doesn't get the concept of #1

No I was just noting that the concept you touted that increased taxes are never beneficial to "the people" is not something I agree with. Just like reducing taxes isn't always beneficial.

Which leads me to full agreement that responsible budgeting is a good idea.

[rehmwa 2]

Have a good weekend, Dek.

(I was specifically talking about increased taxes used to artificially manipulate the market. Not so much about taxes used to pay for the minimal things necessary to run the government. That might clarify a bit.
You know me, my default is money is better off in the hands of the citizens vs the government, and that the US is on the 'spend too much' side, very much, of the tax/spend pendulum today. YMMV in Canadia)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants