Bakery faces complaint for refusing to write anti-gay message on cake

[BillyVance 34]

What the hell? This, from Colorado of all states?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/baker-faces-complaint-for-refusing-anti-gay-message-on-cake/ar-AA8soQI

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Andy9o8 2]

This story line seems to keep popping up from time to time. I dunno, maybe bakeries and gay people are natural enemies these days.

[BillyVance 34]

Andy9o8

This story line seems to keep popping up from time to time. I dunno, maybe bakeries and gay people are natural enemies these days.

Actually, it was a gay-hating customer that wanted the baker to put an anti-gay message on the cake. She refused, but told him she'd give him the icing and he could put it on there himself. He refused, and made a complaint, claiming discrimination.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Andy9o8 2]

Oh.
Well, anyhow, bakeries sure are fucked up. I'd ban them all if I was boss.

[BillyVance 34]

Andy9o8

Oh.
Well, anyhow, bakeries sure are fucked up. I'd ban them all if I was boss.

Yeah, all they do is make us fat.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[lawrocket 3]

Yep. It's not surprising that this is where it has headed. Require a company to serve people with pro-gay messages, then the same requirement should and will exist for anti-gay messages.

The tactics used against an opponent will inevitably be used by the opponent.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 2]

lawrocket

Yep. It's not surprising that this is where it has headed. Require a company to serve people with pro-gay messages, then the same requirement should and will exist for anti-gay messages.

The tactics used against an opponent will inevitably be used by the opponent.

True.
Of course, discriminating against a suspect classification is not the same as discriminating against discriminators.

[normiss 851]

What if they simply apply the "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?

[rehmwa 2]

lawrocket

The tactics used against an opponent will inevitably be used by the opponent.

I'd put a small side bet that this customer placed the order for the sole purpose of making that point....which is something one can appreciate.

That the customer will now come across as a total pin head is likely a bonus side effect.....which is something one can appreciate even more so.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Remster 30]

normiss

What if they simply apply the "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?

Which is not supportable if it is discrimination.

Remster

[jakee 1,563]

lawrocket

Yep. It's not surprising that this is where it has headed. Require a company to serve people with pro-gay messages, then the same requirement should and will exist for anti-gay messages.

The tactics used against an opponent will inevitably be used by the opponent.

Aahhhhh, no. In fact, the article specifically explains the difference between requiring service and requiring a message, which is the (a) difference between the cases.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,563]

rehmwa

***The tactics used against an opponent will inevitably be used by the opponent.

I'd put a small side bet that this customer placed the order for the sole purpose of making that point....which is something one can appreciate.

Well, we can appreciate that he's an idiot who doesn't understand the point.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[TriGirl 333]

rehmwa

I'd put a small side bet that this customer placed the order for the sole purpose of making that point....which is something one can appreciate.

That the customer will now come across as a total pin head is likely a bonus side effect.....which is something one can appreciate even more so.

Agreed. According to the article, the order for the cake itself was placed well in advance. Only when the pick-up date came close did the patron give the bakery the desired text. Definitely indicates the patron did it on purpose to make the point.

As for the other bakery that refused to make a cake for a gay wedding -- they knew up front what the order was for, and chose not to take the business. If that bakery wanted to sell just the cake and let the patrons write in the names of the couple, perhaps that patron would have accepted the compromise (assuming there was writing requested on that cake). Regardless, that bakery chose not to take the job. Their loss. IIRC, someone else was happy to take the business. Problem solved.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[rehmwa 2]

jakee

******The tactics used against an opponent will inevitably be used by the opponent.

I'd put a small side bet that this customer placed the order for the sole purpose of making that point....which is something one can appreciate.

Well, we can appreciate that he's an idiot who doesn't understand the point.

More likely he understood the point very clearly and wanted to make a statement about equality of customer service.

(it could be possible he's an idiot, etc,,, but this appears to be very staged to Jerry's point. If you have to force a private business to do one thing, then it applies to every message of any kind. Even if we don't like it. It's interesting.)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

TriGirl

***
I'd put a small side bet that this customer placed the order for the sole purpose of making that point....which is something one can appreciate.

That the customer will now come across as a total pin head is likely a bonus side effect.....which is something one can appreciate even more so.

Agreed. According to the article, the order for the cake itself was placed well in advance. Only when the pick-up date came close did the patron give the bakery the desired text. Definitely indicates the patron did it on purpose to make the point.

As for the other bakery that refused to make a cake for a gay wedding -- they knew up front what the order was for, and chose not to take the business. If that bakery wanted to sell just the cake and let the patrons write in the names of the couple, perhaps that patron would have accepted the compromise (assuming there was writing requested on that cake). Regardless, that bakery chose not to take the job. Their loss. IIRC, someone else was happy to take the business. Problem solved.

You get it. Though I do like the idea that if the bakery doesn't like to put a message on, they really should offer to make the cake itself. If that's unsatisfactory, then the customer should take the business elsewhere. Or learn to decorate cakes.


It's gets sticky though if there's only one bakery in town.......

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andy9o8 2]

Remster

***What if they simply apply the "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?

Which is not supportable if it is discrimination.

Yes. That tactic was defeated (mainly in federal courts) during the 1960s Civil Rights battles.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Patrons who are unreasonably rowdy or causing trouble
Patrons that may overfill capacity if let in
Patrons who come in just before closing time or when the kitchen is closed
Patrons accompanied by large groups of non-customers looking to sit in
Patrons lacking adequate hygiene (e.g. excess dirt, extreme body odor, etc.)

He smelled get out.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[jakee 1,563]

rehmwa

***Well, we can appreciate that he's an idiot who doesn't understand the point.

More likely he understood the point very clearly and wanted to make a statement about equality of customer service.

No, he doesn't understand the point at all, and evidently neither do you. Despite the fact that it was clearly stated in the article in the OP.

I'll spell it out once, after that you're on your own. One bakery refused to supply a gay couple with a cake. The court ruled that refusing service altogether was discrimination. It did not rule that the bakery would have had to supply a message on the cake such as "Gay marriage is A-OK!"

The second bakery did not refuse to supply a cake to the homophobe, even after they knew what it's purpose was. They only refused to supply a specific message on the cake. Therefore, the homophobe's only beef is with something that was not part of the scope of the original case.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Bolas 5]

rehmwa

******
I'd put a small side bet that this customer placed the order for the sole purpose of making that point....which is something one can appreciate.

That the customer will now come across as a total pin head is likely a bonus side effect.....which is something one can appreciate even more so.

Agreed. According to the article, the order for the cake itself was placed well in advance. Only when the pick-up date came close did the patron give the bakery the desired text. Definitely indicates the patron did it on purpose to make the point.

As for the other bakery that refused to make a cake for a gay wedding -- they knew up front what the order was for, and chose not to take the business. If that bakery wanted to sell just the cake and let the patrons write in the names of the couple, perhaps that patron would have accepted the compromise (assuming there was writing requested on that cake). Regardless, that bakery chose not to take the job. Their loss. IIRC, someone else was happy to take the business. Problem solved.

You get it. Though I do like the idea that if the bakery doesn't like to put a message on, they really should offer to make the cake itself. If that's unsatisfactory, then the customer should take the business elsewhere. Or learn to decorate cakes.


It's gets sticky though if there's only one bakery in town.......

Per the article, they technically didn't fully refuse service. Of course the request to add the lettering came after the cake was done...

Guess someone in Colorado needs to request a Swastika cake, another hate symbol, or the hateful words actually made out of cake. Or simply the same thing, but the full request made up front.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[normiss 851]

I personally witnessed that use of it in a small farming town in southern Illinois in the late 70's.
Black people came in for gas, "sorry sir" was the typical response at that business.

[Andy9o8 2]

normiss

I personally witnessed that use of it in a small farming town in southern Illinois in the late 70's.
Black people came in for gas, "sorry sir" was the typical response at that business.

Sometimes humans really suck.

[rehmwa 2]

sometimes you just like to just manufacture a reason to argue
it's tiring



the phobe clearly was trying to make some kind of point - whether he did it perfectly to your satisfaction or not, or whether the phobe read the briefs of the other case, or even understood them, that is still one read of the possible list of motivations

it's not impossible to expect that someone like this will have an epic fail in the attempt. yet still some can ascribe the purpose behind the attempt as Jerry postulated. In fact, I'd say it's more likely that since this was his topic, he might be dumb, or a troll in essence by trying to be anti-PC escalatory (like freedom of speech idiots vandalizing private property and thinking it applies - they have a message, they just screwed up while trying to make it)

so a couple options, he might just be an asshole; or, he had a point to make but pretty much failed in practice even if the point would be discussion worthy



regardless - it got a lot of press
I think the courts got it right - they should provide the product (cake) at a minimum without bias.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,563]

No Rehm, I just take statements at face value.

The post of yours I replied to said that 'he understood the point perfectly'. Now you're saying that maybe he is an idiot, maybe his point was an 'epic fail' - yet because I said that I'm just trying to argue? You can't have it both ways.

Especially since logically your final paragraph means that the first bakery was wrong, the second bakery was right, and the homophobe doesn't have a valid point. So what are you arguing with me about?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,070]

This argument seems to be focusing on the wrong issue. Homosexuality isn't the issue here, obscenity is. From the article:

"In both cases, it is the explicit, unmistakable, offensive message that the bakers are asked to put on the cake that gives rise to the bakers' free speech right to refuse"

In other words, they are as free to reject "I want to **** only women in the ***" as they are to reject "I want to **** a man in the ***."

Of course, without careful selection of the message to be a hot-button issue, it never would have made the news. "Cake baker refuses to put obscenity on cake" goes on page 37 right under "politician lies about fundraising."

[Bolas 5]

billvon

This argument seems to be focusing on the wrong issue. Homosexuality isn't the issue here, obscenity is. From the article:

"In both cases, it is the explicit, unmistakable, offensive message that the bakers are asked to put on the cake that gives rise to the bakers' free speech right to refuse"

In other words, they are as free to reject "I want to **** only women in the ***" as they are to reject "I want to **** a man in the ***."

Of course, without careful selection of the message to be a hot-button issue, it never would have made the news. "Cake baker refuses to put obscenity on cake" goes on page 37 right under "politician lies about fundraising."

What if the cake itself is the message?

A Swastika cake, another hate symbol, or the hateful non 4 letter words actually made out of cake.

Also "explicit, unmistakable, offensive" are extremely subjective. A devout Christian bakery owner could use the same argument for not putting the names of a same sex couple on a cake.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.