Measles Outbreak

[kallend 2,027]

Boomerdog

So, you compare $#!T with $#!T. Are you seeking the truth or trying to determine who stinks more?

YOU badmouthed Aljazeera.

Do you have data on Aljazeera's accuracy (or lack thereof)? We certainly know that Fox has a piss-poor record.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ryoder 1,590]

Pediatrician gives his patients an ultimatum:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctor-fed-up-with-measles-outbreak-takes-controversial-stance/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jclalor 12]

Boomerdog

aljazeera?

With apologies to Deniro, the question is begged.

IS THAT ALL YOU GOT?

Could you please cite any particular portion of my source that you take exception with?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

ryoder

Pediatrician gives his patients an ultimatum:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctor-fed-up-with-measles-outbreak-takes-controversial-stance/

Good for him.

I find it rather ironic that the "anti-vaxxers" ignore a very, very important statistic when the make all their claims:

How many doctors refuse to vaccinate their kids.

I can't find a number from a source I trust, but everything indicates it's small. Tiny. Infinitesimal.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Stumpy 284]

wolfriverjoe

***Pediatrician gives his patients an ultimatum:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctor-fed-up-with-measles-outbreak-takes-controversial-stance/

Good for him.

I find it rather ironic that the "anti-vaxxers" ignore a very, very important statistic when the make all their claims:

How many doctors refuse to vaccinate their kids.

I can't find a number from a source I trust, but everything indicates it's small. Tiny. Infinitesimal.

I strongly suspect that even if this was pointed out the anti-vaxxers would come up with something to explain it such as the doctors being brainwashed by big pharma or some other nonsense. They aren't big on logic or reason.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Boomerdog 0]

Quote

YOU badmouthed Aljazeera.

Guilty as charged.

[Boomerdog 0]

First, I think vaccinations are a very good thing.

Second, did Ajazeera poll the other side of the aisle? If they did, they're not reporting it in spite of anything they say public and if they did not, then they're pushing a narrative. But that's OK, they've got a 1st Amendment right to do so. But as far as I'm concerned, the Bee Ess flag has been raised and not by me.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Boomerdog

First, I think vaccinations are a very good thing.

Second, did Ajazeera poll the other side of the aisle? If they did, they're not reporting it in spite of anything they say public and if they did not, then they're pushing a narrative. But that's OK, they've got a 1st Amendment right to do so. But as far as I'm concerned, the Bee Ess flag has been raised and not by me.

Did you actually read the story?

I don't see any "narrative" being pushed. Simply reporting the fact that a huge number of people have been exposed to a dangerous disease by an unvaccinated person. And those people are pissed.

I'm not sure what the "other side of the aisle" would say.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[muff528 3]

wolfriverjoe

***First, I think vaccinations are a very good thing.

Second, did Ajazeera poll the other side of the aisle? If they did, they're not reporting it in spite of anything they say public and if they did not, then they're pushing a narrative. But that's OK, they've got a 1st Amendment right to do so. But as far as I'm concerned, the Bee Ess flag has been raised and not by me.

Did you actually read the story?

I don't see any "narrative" being pushed. Simply reporting the fact that a huge number of unvaccinated people have been exposed to a dangerous disease by an unvaccinated person. And those unvaccinated people are pissed.

I'm not sure what the "other side of the aisle" would say.

FIFY

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

muff528

******First, I think vaccinations are a very good thing.

Second, did Ajazeera poll the other side of the aisle? If they did, they're not reporting it in spite of anything they say public and if they did not, then they're pushing a narrative. But that's OK, they've got a 1st Amendment right to do so. But as far as I'm concerned, the Bee Ess flag has been raised and not by me.

Did you actually read the story?

I don't see any "narrative" being pushed. Simply reporting the fact that a huge number of unvaccinated people have been exposed to a dangerous disease by an unvaccinated person. And those unvaccinated people are pissed.

I'm not sure what the "other side of the aisle" would say.

FIFY

True to a certain degree, but there are some who couldn't be vaccinated (many because they were simply too young).

Quote

It was not possible to have Maggie vaccinated because of her battle with leukemia, and her weak immune system puts her at risk to many diseases. Jack's 10-month-old son, who was too young to be vaccinated, was also possibly exposed to measles at the hospital. Jacks said both of his children would be kept at home for the next three weeks.

And it doesn't go into why the woman was not vaccinated. It's entirely possible that she falls into the "vaccinated when young but not immune" group from the sixties. They were vaccinated with a "killed virus" version of the vaccine that isn't as effective.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[muff528 3]

wolfriverjoe

.....
True to a certain degree, but there are some who couldn't be vaccinated (many because they were simply too young).......

Good point WRT young age and medical conditions. But I don't know how "huge" that number would be.

I am in favor of vaccination, almost to the point of mandating it. I'm especially in favor of returning to immigration policies that require screening and vaccination of ALL incoming immigrants ...like the olden days. It's a little disgusting that we have immigration policies that have allowed a disease that had largely been beaten in this country to again gain a foothold, and then try to place the blame on those who become infected.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

muff528

***.....
True to a certain degree, but there are some who couldn't be vaccinated (many because they were simply too young).......

Good point WRT young age and medical conditions. But I don't know how "huge" that number would be.

I am in favor of vaccination, almost to the point of mandating it. I'm especially in favor of returning to immigration policies that require screening and vaccination of ALL incoming immigrants ...like the olden days. It's a little disgusting that we have immigration policies that have allowed a disease that had largely been beaten in this country to again gain a foothold, and then try to place the blame on those who become infected.

All incoming immigrants?

Including tourists? Or Americans coming back from abroad?

CDC is saying that one of those is probably the source.

Of course the right wing fringe is going nuts about it (I'm not implying that you are part of that). ODS is rampant. Michael Savage is blaming Obama and his immigration policies for the outbreak.

Of course.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[muff528 3]

wolfriverjoe

....

All incoming immigrants?

Including tourists? Or Americans coming back from abroad?

Americans who traveled abroad used to get a litany of inoculations depending on where they were going. Did we stop doing that, too?

Quote

CDC is saying that one of those is probably the source.

I'm sure that the flood of illegal immigrant "children" who recently arrived from Central America has not even crossed their minds.

Quote

Of course the right wing fringe is going nuts about it (I'm not implying that you are part of that). ODS is rampant. Michael Savage is blaming Obama and his immigration policies for the outbreak.

Of course.

Even the right wing fringe is right some of the time (look at Palin, Bachman, and Romney with respect to Russia). Also, any administration with a such an irresponsible immigration policy could be blamed. Don't need ODS to recognize dereliction (or worse).

[Boomerdog 0]

Yea...nothing new in that article that was not already known.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

muff528

***....

All incoming immigrants?

Including tourists? Or Americans coming back from abroad?

Americans who traveled abroad used to get a litany of inoculations depending on where they were going. Did we stop doing that, too?

Quote

CDC is saying that one of those is probably the source.

I'm sure that the flood of illegal immigrant "children" who recently arrived from Central America has not even crossed their minds.

Quote

Of course the right wing fringe is going nuts about it (I'm not implying that you are part of that). ODS is rampant. Michael Savage is blaming Obama and his immigration policies for the outbreak.

Of course.

Even the right wing fringe is right some of the time (look at Palin, Bachman, and Romney with respect to Russia). Also, any administration with a such an irresponsible immigration policy could be blamed. Don't need ODS to recognize dereliction (or worse).

I don't know if any vaccines are required for US citizens travelling abroad. I took a quick look through the CDC site and only found "recommendations."

Considering that the "Flood of illegal immigrant children from Central America" is probably better immunized than US kids, I would guess that the CDC considered and rejected that idea.

WHO reports that neither Guatemala nor Honduras has had a reported case of measles since 1990.

http://www.texasobserver.org/disease-threat-immigrant-children-wildly-overstated/

Not sure what the "Texas Observer" is, but they seem to have good sources on their info.

The Right Wing fringe may or may not be right on rare occasion. About as often as the Left Wing fringe.

And Obama's immigration policy is worth debating separately.

But to imply that it has anything to do with this is ridiculous.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[muff528 3]

That article, written almost 7 months ago, during the height of the influx of the migrant children, was obviously intended to provide support, or at least run interference, for the administration's policy regarding the dumping of these kids. It reads like a hit piece specifically meant to target Fox and its contributors as well as Republican politicians, or anyone else who might dare to speak out against the criminal negligence and abandonment of these kids ...not to mention their abuse by the administration as political footballs.

But, I especially like this:

"Governments concerned about health, and good parents investing in their kids, have made Central American kids better-vaccinated than Texan kids." ~Rachel Pearson, Texas Observer Contributor.

These "concerned " governments and the so-called "good parents" sent thousands of their children, riding unaccompanied on top of chicken trains across hostile, lawless land in foreign countries to an unknown fate. Maybe the good parents, the ones with the "better-vaccinated" kids cared enough to keep their children home.

[richravizza 28]

lawrocket

***Here is a map of state compliance with the full complement of CDC-recommended vaccinations.
Really not much correlation with red/blue:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/01/29/which-states-are-the-best-and-worst-at-vaccinating-their-kids/

This is an any reason map. The one I was focused on was the lack of vaccinations for "personal belief." Those are the ones I thought told the story. There are some other reasons for not receiving vaccinations.

Which ones are not going to vaccinate kids due to personal belief is what this is mainly about. And in that category there is a bit of a riot toward the blue areas. There Are exceptions but I saw a fairly identifiable correlation.
I'm buzzed after the super bowl, But this Is interesting.
Freedom to chose is so important, Loook the only ones' with meassels are the one that choose to take that risk ,this is OUR Right, and as assinine as it sounda it is OUR LIBERTY.
I love America, and yes my childern were Vaxed.

[billvon 2,998]

>You or your child want to do something others may consider stupid but is minimal to
>no risk to others not involved? Go for it . . .

Really? Beating your kids and sending them to the hospital? "Go for it" as long as no one else is involved?

Society has a higher duty of responsibility towards children than they have towards adults - and that includes overriding parents when they make decisions that stand to harm or kill their children.

[wmw999 2,452]

No, the people with measles also included babies too young for vaccinations, those who had them but the vaccine didn't take, and people who legitimately can't take them for allergy reasons. They were previously protected by herd immunity

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

muff528

That article, written almost 7 months ago, during the height of the influx of the migrant children, was obviously intended to provide support, or at least run interference, for the administration's policy regarding the dumping of these kids. It reads like a hit piece specifically meant to target Fox and its contributors as well as Republican politicians, or anyone else who might dare to speak out against the criminal negligence and abandonment of these kids ...not to mention their abuse by the administration as political footballs.

But, I especially like this:

"Governments concerned about health, and good parents investing in their kids, have made Central American kids better-vaccinated than Texan kids." ~Rachel Pearson, Texas Observer Contributor.

These "concerned " governments and the so-called "good parents" sent thousands of their children, riding unaccompanied on top of chicken trains across hostile, lawless land in foreign countries to an unknown fate. Maybe the good parents, the ones with the "better-vaccinated" kids cared enough to keep their children home.

Ok, then why did measles show up at a huge tourist destination, instead of where all these "immigrant children" are?

And you criticize it as a "hit piece", yet can you refute any of it's facts about immunization rates? Or the fact that there's been zero cases of measles in Guatemala and Honduras in the past 25 years?

The piece also does a pretty good job of pointing out that incorrectly placing blame for disease outbreaks on the "dirty immigrants" is common throughout history.

To repeat: Obama's immigration policies are worthy of discussion and debate. I'm not really pleased with them.

But to blame the measles on that is to completely miss the point.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[kallend 2,027]

wolfriverjoe

***That article, written almost 7 months ago, during the height of the influx of the migrant children, was obviously intended to provide support, or at least run interference, for the administration's policy regarding the dumping of these kids. It reads like a hit piece specifically meant to target Fox and its contributors as well as Republican politicians, or anyone else who might dare to speak out against the criminal negligence and abandonment of these kids ...not to mention their abuse by the administration as political footballs.

But, I especially like this:

"Governments concerned about health, and good parents investing in their kids, have made Central American kids better-vaccinated than Texan kids." ~Rachel Pearson, Texas Observer Contributor.

These "concerned " governments and the so-called "good parents" sent thousands of their children, riding unaccompanied on top of chicken trains across hostile, lawless land in foreign countries to an unknown fate. Maybe the good parents, the ones with the "better-vaccinated" kids cared enough to keep their children home.

Ok, then why did measles show up at a huge tourist destination, instead of where all these "immigrant children" are?

And you criticize it as a "hit piece", yet can you refute any of it's facts about immunization rates? Or the fact that there's been zero cases of measles in Guatemala and Honduras in the past 25 years?

The piece also does a pretty good job of pointing out that incorrectly placing blame for disease outbreaks on the "dirty immigrants" is common throughout history.

To repeat: Obama's immigration policies are worthy of discussion and debate. I'm not really pleased with them.

But to blame the measles on that is to completely miss the point.

C'mon Joe. You know perfectly well that the very first thing the illegals do after wading across the Rio Grande is head straight to Disneyland.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

kallend

C'mon Joe. You know perfectly well that the very first thing the illegals do after wading across the Rio Grande is head straight to Disneyland.

I find that difficult to believe Professor.

Do you know how much Disneyland costs?

It's the second thing they do. They have to steal the good jobs first to make the money to pay for it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Andy9o8 2]

wolfriverjoe

***

C'mon Joe. You know perfectly well that the very first thing the illegals do after wading across the Rio Grande is head straight to Disneyland.

I find that difficult to believe Professor.

Do you know how much Disneyland costs?

It's the second thing they do. They have to steal the good jobs first to make the money to pay for it.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/54944397.jpg

[muff528 3]

FIrst, I am not specifically blaming the current measles outbreak on the recent flood of illegal immigrant children. I am blaming the outbreak on moronic (with regard to public health, among other things) immigration policy and using the unchecked mass influx of undocumented migrants as an example of that idiotic policy. But, the fact that they are "undocumented" allows me to call "BS" on the notion that we can be sure that they are all healthy because of some claim from the WHO, etc. They rely on cases which are reported to hospitals, clinics, etc. Not necessarily just referring to measles, but any infectious disease.

To clarify, the specific points I was making are:

1. While I believe that vaccination should be universal, I think it is disingenuous and self-serving to blame the folks who actually contract these mostly-eradicated diseases in their own countries for their own infections rather than blame piss-poor, irresponsible immigration policy.

2. These days, immigrants (and visitors) are mostly allowed into the country with very little, if any, screening for disease. And folks travelling to other countries from the US seem to no longer be required to vaccinate against various local or regional diseases. (I don't know if that is correct ...that was really presented more as a question.)

3. Even now, we don't know (or won't reveal) from what region of the globe the US outbreaks originated ...even though we do have the ability to identify, with a reasonable degree of certainty, which strains are involved in the infections and where in the world each of these strains are prevalent. Maybe this is some big secret or maybe they just don't know. I'm going with "secret" since they, very adamantly, do seem to know that they did not come from Central America.

4. The article linked by Joe was written during the mass evacuation of child refugees from Central America ...before anything regarding the health and well-being of those kids could have been known on an individual basis. As such, it was obviously written to provide cover for the administration's immigration policy during the migration period. Also, the statement, "The narrative that foreigners bring disease has long been used to stir up anti-immigrant sentiment." ~ Rachel Pearson, Texas Observer Contributor, is pretty much equivalent to "If you are against Obama's policies you must be a racist". Typical lefty deflection tactics. The fact is that foreigners do bring disease. We've learned that throughout history Europeans have wiped out entire populations of people through the transmission of diseases. Fortunately, we have learned how to control and mitigate that sort of thing ....and then we forgot.

5. How can such a "concerned" government (one that is flush enough to provide "universal health care" and "100 percent funded" vaccines. ~ Rachel Pearson, Texas Observer Contributor) allow other conditions in the country to deteriorate to the point that "good parents" across their nation round up their children and send them packing en masse on such a dangerous 1200-mile trek into uncertainty. Maybe that trip is like Disneyland compared to conditions in their own countries. Again, I'm calling "BS".

[billvon 2,998]

> I am blaming the outbreak on moronic (with regard to public health, among other
>things) immigration policy and using the unchecked mass influx of undocumented
>migrants as an example of that idiotic policy.

Do you have even the slightest shred of evidence that this measles outbreak was caused by illegal immigrants? Even a tiny _hint_ of evidence? Or is it complete BS?

>While I believe that vaccination should be universal, I think it is disingenuous and
>self-serving to blame the folks who actually contract these mostly-eradicated diseases
>in their own countries for their own infections rather than blame piss-poor, irresponsible
>immigration policy.

So rather than blame the people who could stop the disease in its tracks (but just don't want to) you blame something that, as far as anyone can tell, has nothing to do with the issue. Well, I blame creationism. So there.

> Even now, we don't know (or won't reveal) from what region of the globe the US
>outbreaks originated ...

We do know. Anaheim, California.