Anvilbrother 0 #26 February 5, 2015 To build what a pistol, or SBR? To do a pistol you HAVE to start with a lower that was bought and registered as a pistol lower OR AOW lower. For SBR you have to start with the lower because you need that serial number to APPLY for your SBR tax stamp before you buy anything else. Once you get your tax stamp then you can buy the rest and assemble it. For SBR I believe you definitely can start with a pistol or AOW registered receiver but not a rifle. You might because it is being registered with NFA, so they might reclassify that for you. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #27 February 5, 2015 All of my stripped lowers don't have any sort of data indicating weather they are pistol or rifle. And the former I've filled out on all of them doesn't tell you either. Just says "lower receiver stripped".Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #28 February 6, 2015 Section B number 18 of form 4473. You will see the "other" box. I was using "Any Other Weapon" in the wrong context, most people just say other. Thats the only place you will find that, its not on the gun, its done when you buy the receiver. Google form 4473 to see the box. If you want to build an ar pistol you must buy the stripped receiver and transfer it as a pistol, or other. It can never have been registered as rifle. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #29 February 6, 2015 Well since I need to pick up a 50 bmg reloading press tomorrow I'll ask them how they usually fill out the forms for stripped lowers. Thanks for the info. Wouldn't want some eager beaver cop to start asking for paperwork next time I'm at the range.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #30 February 6, 2015 99% of the time stripped lowers are marked as a receiver in the other box as the seller has no clue what it is going to be once built and mated to an upper later on by the buyer. Just remember this. Once a rifle always a rifle, pistols can go rifle to pistol and back no problem as long as you make damn sure you got the right stock on with the right upper. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 7 #31 February 6, 2015 Anvilbrother 99% of the time stripped lowers are marked as a receiver in the other box as the seller has no clue what it is going to be once built and mated to an upper later on by the buyer. Just remember this. Once a rifle always a rifle, pistols can go rifle to pistol and back no problem as long as you make damn sure you got the right stock on with the right upper. You correctly stated that once a rifle always a rifle. Then in the same sentence contradicted yourself. You said it can become a rifle and then go back to a pistol this is false.. I live in California so to have an AR pistol here. You have had to make it from an 80% receiver or do a SSE. SSE's are gone now so that only leaves 80%'s. And you can have as many pistol uppers as you want without having a pistol or wow lower, you just can't have any rifle lowers at that time. As far as full auto sears and triggers and such. Not illegal I buy 1919-a4 full auto gun kits. The full auto parts get given away to someone in a free state that can use them and the gun is remanufactured into semi auto mode only. Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #32 February 6, 2015 No I correctly stated once a rifle always a rifle, meaning if its registration at the time of sale is rifle that is all it can ever be. A pistol or other registered lower can be built either way as many times as you want. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #33 February 6, 2015 wolfriverjoe ***Why are SBR's a NFA item anyway? I never really understood this. Same as shotguns. It takes a fairly powerful firearm and makes it concealable. Keep in mind that the 38 Super was considered a very powerful pistol at the time. NFA 1934 was a result of the "gangster era" of Prohibition and the early depression era. (think Al Capone, Dillinger and Bonnie & Clyde). Clyde Barrow had a BAR (yes, he stole it from a National Guard armory) that he cut down and could hide under a long coat. He also had a shotgun (Rem 1100 IIRC) that he cut way down and would wear under a coat. He had it on a short sling around his shoulder and could swing it up to his shoulder and fire very fast. And he'd shoot it from the shoulder so that he'd hit what he was aiming for. The St Valentine's Day massacre in Chicago was one of the triggers for the NFA (kinda like Sandy Hook or similar). The good old "Let's ban them and keep them out of the hands of the criminals" mindset. ................................................................................. This confusion is the result of keeping a 1934 law on the books long after technology has made the legal terminology obsolete. Back in 1942, those nasty Nazis introduced the Sturmgwehr 43 with a two-piece receiver. That two-piece receiver made all the old laws obsolete. Armalite, Fabrique Nationale, Kalashnikov, etc. just perpetuated the problem. A modern law would tightly control "automatic components" while easing restrictions on "semi-automatic" fire-arms. As for short-barrelled rifles ... they are great for converting ammo to noise, but of limited tactical use. Why carry a rifle that does not allow you to extract all the energy from a given cartridge????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #34 February 6, 2015 Someone gave the shortened BAR excuse earlier as the reason for the SBR being an NFA item, I say if you can conceal a BAR and swing it out like a 6 shooter cowboy hip style your a BEAST! Also all of these "rules" are ignored by criminals, it only ends up affecting law abiding people who get caught up in the bullshit laws, exemptions, updated opinions etc. Look here we have been talking about 1 item thats not even a NFA item and see all the confusion. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 7 #35 February 6, 2015 Anvilbrother No I correctly stated once a rifle always a rifle, meaning if its registration at the time of sale is rifle that is all it can ever be. A pistol or other registered lower can be built either way as many times as you want. I did not realize Louisiana required registration at time of purchase. Welcome to California's laws. He'll we just now,this year was required to register New purchased long guns. Before it was only pistols or the evil ones. But some of the best California gun rights lawyers will say your interpretation is wrong. At least in California. Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #36 February 6, 2015 Im talking federal form 4473. When you buy that gun NEW your name is tied to that gun, and its use(pistol,rifle, other) is created. After that in Louisiana we dont have to do anything, it can be sold to 10 different people. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 7 #37 February 6, 2015 But the federal,form 4473 is not registration. That is just for the background check. That form is kept by the FFL for twenty years and then can be destroyed without the feds having a copy. Unless the FFL goes out of business before twenty years, then he has to hand choose over to the DoJ. Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #38 February 6, 2015 Agreed! The last political shooting - in Canada - was done with a lever-action cowboy-gun. Meanwhile small-time dope-dealers brag that they can get their hands on any machine-gun or rocket-launcher they want. Law-makers in Ottawa are so far from the criminal classes......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #39 February 6, 2015 Quote Meanwhile small-time dope-dealers brag that they can get their hands on any machine-gun or rocket-launcher they want. They may brag about it....but it isn't true. And often even if they can, ammunition is hard to come by for them. It isn't as easy to procure an illegal firearm and ammunition in Canada as it is in the US. Simply because there are far less guns and ammunition in circulation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #40 February 6, 2015 wolfriverjoe Smoothbore (shotguns) have no "pistol" provisions (so Mad Max's side-by-side is NOT legal in the US). I have a question . . . 1) This is a shotgun pistol . . . where does this fall in your "pretty simple"I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #41 February 6, 2015 In Canada that would count as a "prohibited" short-barrelled, double-barrelled shotgun. Canadian laws also specify which calibres and which models are "restricted" (pistols) or "prohibited" (full automatic). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 7 #42 February 6, 2015 turtlespeed *** Smoothbore (shotguns) have no "pistol" provisions (so Mad Max's side-by-side is NOT legal in the US). I have a question . . . 1) This is a shotgun pistol . . . where does this fall in your "pretty simple" AOW transfered with a 5 dollar tax stamp. Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #43 February 7, 2015 Stripped lowers are "other". "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 7 #44 February 7, 2015 1969912 Stripped lowers are "other". Maybe some places, in California they are DROSed as a rifle. Being as there are no AR handguns on the safe handgun roster. Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propblast 0 #45 February 11, 2015 SkyDekker Quote Meanwhile small-time dope-dealers brag that they can get their hands on any machine-gun or rocket-launcher they want. They may brag about it....but it isn't true. And often even if they can, ammunition is hard to come by for them. It isn't as easy to procure an illegal firearm and ammunition in Canada as it is in the US. Simply because there are far less guns and ammunition in circulation. Ha ha ha. Funny. I'd love to know what you base this 'fact' on.Propblast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propblast 0 #46 February 11, 2015 turtlespeed *** Smoothbore (shotguns) have no "pistol" provisions (so Mad Max's side-by-side is NOT legal in the US). I have a question . . . 1) This is a shotgun pistol . . . where does this fall in your "pretty simple" Turtle, are the barrels "rifled" in anyway? If so it isn't a shotgun...Propblast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #47 February 12, 2015 propblast ****** Smoothbore (shotguns) have no "pistol" provisions (so Mad Max's side-by-side is NOT legal in the US). I have a question . . . 1) This is a shotgun pistol . . . where does this fall in your "pretty simple" Turtle, are the barrels "rifled" in anyway? If so it isn't a shotgun... No. It was a smoothbore pistol, I was wrong about that. It seems to be that if it was originally made as a pistol, it is classed as an "AOW", as was posted above. If it was originally made with a shoulder stock, then it would be a "short barreled shotgun." The argument about AR pistols and how the lower was originally sold illustrates this well. Max's shotgun was originally a full length side-by-side, so it would be classed as a SBS, not AOW."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #48 February 13, 2015 propblast ****** Smoothbore (shotguns) have no "pistol" provisions (so Mad Max's side-by-side is NOT legal in the US). I have a question . . . 1) This is a shotgun pistol . . . where does this fall in your "pretty simple" Turtle, are the barrels "rifled" in anyway? If so it isn't a shotgun... No rifling.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 7 #49 February 13, 2015 Hint look up a super shorty made by serbu. It is an AOW. And legal in the USA. Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #50 February 15, 2015 More grief over AR pistols from the BATFE... http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Library/Notices/atf_framework_for_determining_whether_certain_projectiles_are_primarily_intended_for_sporting_purposes.pdf Due to the existence of AR pistol receivers, any ammunition that can be fired from an AR (basically everything if you include AR-10s) that contains tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium is banned from sale to the public. Finally this will bring an end to the zeros of police officers killed by AP rounds defeating their body armor*. *I'm genuinely interested in someone proving me wrong here. Has M855 ammunition (the primary focus of this ATF letter) ever been used to murder anyone, police or otherwise, body armor or otherwise, in the United States? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
