Symptomatic

[SkyDekker 1,465]

This to me is symptomatic of the times we live in. No care for anybody but oneself.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ted-cruz-calls-federal-flood-relief-texas-article-1.2238227

editted since I screwed up the clicky....thanks Turtle.

[turtlespeed 226]

SkyDekker

This to me is symptomatic of the times we live in. No care for anybody but oneself.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ted-cruz-calls-federal-flood-relief-texas-article-1.2238227

Hmmm

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[lawrocket 3]

I'm still having issues pulling it up. But from the title it appears that Cruz is seeking federal funds for Texas. Even though the guy speaks out against federal intervention. Maybe he was even one of the clowns who thought the military was going to take over Texas last month.

Yes. This is politics. Where Bernie Sanders talks about the problems of the political establishment. Even though he's been a Congressman for 25 years.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[turtlespeed 226]

SkyDekker

This to me is symptomatic of the times we live in. No care for anybody but oneself.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ted-cruz-calls-federal-flood-relief-texas-article-1.2238227

editted since I screwed up the clicky....thanks Turtle.

I think this is more symptomatic . . .
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/clintons-omit-shell-company-filing-financial-records-article-1.2236364

And you are welcome.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[SkyDekker 1,465]

lawrocket

I'm still having issues pulling it up. But from the title it appears that Cruz is seeking federal funds for Texas. Even though the guy speaks out against federal intervention. Maybe he was even one of the clowns who thought the military was going to take over Texas last month.

Yes. This is politics. Where Bernie Sanders talks about the problems of the political establishment. Even though he's been a Congressman for 25 years.

Yes he voted against providing federal relief after Hurricane Sandy, but is now asking for federal relief for Texas.

[Amazon 7]

lawrocket

I'm still having issues pulling it up. But from the title it appears that Cruz is seeking federal funds for Texas. Even though the guy speaks out against federal intervention. Maybe he was even one of the clowns who thought the military was going to take over Texas last month.

Yes. This is politics. Where Bernie Sanders talks about the problems of the political establishment. Even though he's been a Congressman for 25 years.

And has been a contrarian pretty much the whole time... but his constituents seem to love his stirring up the corrupt politicians there that most of the country have put there to send the pork home to their districts.

[turtlespeed 226]

SkyDekker

***I'm still having issues pulling it up. But from the title it appears that Cruz is seeking federal funds for Texas. Even though the guy speaks out against federal intervention. Maybe he was even one of the clowns who thought the military was going to take over Texas last month.

Yes. This is politics. Where Bernie Sanders talks about the problems of the political establishment. Even though he's been a Congressman for 25 years.

Yes he voted against providing federal relief after Hurricane Sandy, but is now asking for federal relief for Texas.

So do you think maybe those that benefited from the sandy funding will oppose this?

I see no difference in this and what pelosi and Reid and Clinton do, after all, what difference, does it make anyway?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[SkyDekker 1,465]

turtlespeed

******I'm still having issues pulling it up. But from the title it appears that Cruz is seeking federal funds for Texas. Even though the guy speaks out against federal intervention. Maybe he was even one of the clowns who thought the military was going to take over Texas last month.

Yes. This is politics. Where Bernie Sanders talks about the problems of the political establishment. Even though he's been a Congressman for 25 years.

Yes he voted against providing federal relief after Hurricane Sandy, but is now asking for federal relief for Texas.

So do you think maybe those that benefited from the sandy funding will oppose this?

I see no difference in this and what pelosi and Reid and Clinton do, after all, what difference, does it make anyway?

That's why I didn't make any mention of political party etc.

Many decisions these days seem to be made with onle "how does it effect me" in mind. Not with "how can we make this country better".

I am sure some form of thise has always been there, it just seems to me that it is getting more extreme as the years go on.

[turtlespeed 226]

SkyDekker

*********I'm still having issues pulling it up. But from the title it appears that Cruz is seeking federal funds for Texas. Even though the guy speaks out against federal intervention. Maybe he was even one of the clowns who thought the military was going to take over Texas last month.

Yes. This is politics. Where Bernie Sanders talks about the problems of the political establishment. Even though he's been a Congressman for 25 years.

Yes he voted against providing federal relief after Hurricane Sandy, but is now asking for federal relief for Texas.

So do you think maybe those that benefited from the sandy funding will oppose this?

I see no difference in this and what pelosi and Reid and Clinton do, after all, what difference, does it make anyway?

That's why I didn't make any mention of political party etc.

Many decisions these days seem to be made with onle "how does it effect me" in mind. Not with "how can we make this country better".

I am sure some form of thise has always been there, it just seems to me that it is getting more extreme as the years go on.

I have never once voted for any representative, or senator, hoping they would be improving things in florida, or Michigan, or Hawaii.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I have voted for federal politicians hoping they would make things better for Canada and not just the province I live in.
I have voted for provincial politicians hoping they would make things better for Ontario and not just the town I live in.
I have voted for municipal politicians hoping they would make things better for the town I live in, not only my neighbourhood.

[billvon 3,067]

>I have never once voted for any representative, or senator, hoping they would be
>improving things in florida, or Michigan, or Hawaii.

Hmm, I have. It always impresses me when a representative or senator realizes that every state relies on every other, and that problems don't respect state boundaries. Texas relies on our food; we rely on Colorado's water. And so on and so on.

[champu 1]

SkyDekker

Many decisions these days seem to be made with only "how does it effect me" in mind. Not with "how can we make this country better".

I am sure some form of this has always been there, it just seems to me that it is getting more extreme as the years go on.

First off, everything seems more extreme these days. Louis CK had a couple bits related to that which were pretty funny. One was about foods and how so many snack foods are so packed full of flavoring that if you give a kid an apple they have a hard time enjoying it. The other was about going to the top shelf with words and describing everything with superlatives. The information age has reached a point where you can take essentially any topic and find articles, studies, and materials on the internet to convince yourself, and perhaps at least a few others, that it constitutes a MAJOR problem and that "there oughta be a law." This naturally creates a fair amount of conflict.

Regarding how things affect individuals vs. society and how that drives people's voting, I've commented on that before but in the other direction. People voting for things that they believe (for whatever reason, substantiated or otherwise) will help make the country better and that they think won't affect them is that road to hell paved with good intentions you've probably heard of. It's no more selfish to say, "this sounds great but it screws me over personally, so I vote no" than it is to say, "This sounds great and I personally don't have to do anything, so I vote yes."

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

First off, everything seems more extreme these days.

Quote

The information age has reached a point where you can take essentially any topic and find articles, studies, and materials on the internet to convince yourself, and perhaps at least a few others, that it constitutes a MAJOR problem and that "there oughta be a law." This naturally creates a fair amount of conflict.

Those two quotes are at odds with eachother. You first indicate that there is no change, then you outline what has changed.

Quote

It's no more selfish to say, "this sounds great but it screws me over personally, so I vote no" than it is to say, "This sounds great and I personally don't have to do anything, so I vote yes."

There are more options than those two. I think they call this a strawman.

[champu 1]

SkyDekker

Quote

First off, everything seems more extreme these days.

***The information age has reached a point where you can take essentially any topic and find articles, studies, and materials on the internet to convince yourself, and perhaps at least a few others, that it constitutes a MAJOR problem and that "there oughta be a law." This naturally creates a fair amount of conflict.

Those two quotes are at odds with each other. You first indicate that there is no change, then you outline what has changed.

The latter is a contributing factor to the former. I'm saying everything seems more extreme because it's simply easier to find people who are interested in telling you how extreme all situations are.

SkyDekker

Quote

It's no more selfish to say, "this sounds great but it screws me over personally, so I vote no" than it is to say, "This sounds great and I personally don't have to do anything, so I vote yes."

There are more options than those two. I think they call this a strawman.

My post in no way suggests those are the only two things that can happen. You lamented the way people put their own interests over those of society, I was emphasizing that it is a balance and that there's more than one way in which it can go awry.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

I'm saying everything seems more extreme because it's simply easier to find people who are interested in telling you how extreme all situations are.

So there is not a greater political divide, there is just more information available to show there is a greater political divide?

Quote

My post in no way suggests those are the only two things that can happen. You lamented the way people put their own interests over those of society, I was emphasizing that it is a balance and that there's more than one way in which it can go awry.

I say that the scales are tipping in one directions and your response is that it could also tip in the other direction? Don't think I am grasping your point.

[champu 1]

It's somewhat ironic that we're in a thread talking about symptoms of problems, polarization of ideologies, etc. and you are hell-bent on being in disagreement with me.

Please try re-reading my posts and pretend that I'm not disagreeing with you, but rather trying to offer an explanation and temperance.

[wmw999 2,532]

Quote

I have never once voted for any representative, or senator, hoping they would be improving things in Florida, or Michigan, or Hawaii.

I always do. They're all Americans, and that whole United we stand, divided we fall thing applies. I expect them to make sure that Texas isn't untowardly damaged in the process. I also expect them to see and advocate and politic for what Texas needs. Not every transaction is a zero-sum game.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Champu, my last sentence is:

Quote

Don't think I am grasping your point.

I am not trying to disagree with you, I am not getting what you are saying.

[turtlespeed 226]

wmw999

Quote

I have never once voted for any representative, or senator, hoping they would be improving things in Florida, or Michigan, or Hawaii.

I always do. They're all Americans, and that whole United we stand, divided we fall thing applies. I expect them to make sure that Texas isn't untowardly damaged in the process. I also expect them to see and advocate and politic for what Texas needs. Not every transaction is a zero-sum game.

Wendy P.

So, say if, (big big "if") you voted for Bill Flores, you would have considered specifically what his leadership and influence and ability to do his job would impact Hawaii.

I ask this, because I looked at his policies regarding immigration, but knowing that he couldn't directly affect Arizonans immigration issues, didn't consider that as important.

Just one example. Another was his position on the Texas budget surplus. I gave no thought how the Texas budget surplus is going to affect Alaska.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Coreeece 2]

wmw999

Quote

I have never once voted for any representative, or senator, hoping they would be improving things in Florida, or Michigan, or Hawaii.

I always do. They're all Americans, and that whole United we stand, divided we fall thing applies.

Ya, and we're all divided and the politicians still stand more powerful than ever.

In the politicians mind - United we fall, divided we stand...

We have been divided on the issues of Gay marriage, abortion, guns, and racism....these are the issues on which elections are decided, and they arguably have the least effect on society overall...

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[wmw999 2,532]

No, I think about Texas specifically, but I don't want to screw over others for my benefit. If that means thinking about Hawaii, or Hurricane Sandy victims, then so be it. And if I think that federal aid should not be provided to Other states in the case of emergencies, then that applies to Texas as well.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[champu 1]

SkyDekker

Champu, my last sentence is:

Quote

Don't think I am grasping your point.

I am not trying to disagree with you, I am not getting what you are saying.

Fair enough... My two points were simply that a) selfish/anti-social behavior in its various forms is probably not getting any more extreme in recent years. It may seem that way but, like most things, it's probably just you're hearing about more examples and hearing about more extreme examples these days. Previously they would have just happened and you'd be none the wiser.

And b) selfish behavior is not limited to behavior that shouts, "screw everyone else, I got mine." Sometimes people can do or recommend things that sound altruistic on their face, but when you dig a little deeper you realize what they really support is changing other peoples' behavior or using other peoples' time and money to do the things they recommend to make the country better.

Mind you, this second point is not incompatible with what you wrote...

SkyDekker

Many decisions these days seem to be made with only "how does it effect me" in mind. Not with "how can we make this country better".

...it's just to say that having an underlying motivation of making the country better doesn't mean the person isn't being selfish.