DanG 1 #251 July 7, 2015 The people of South Carloina have every right to honor the soldiers that fought for the state. No one is asking that the monument be taken down, only that the flag (which has been appropriated as a racist symbol) be removed. QuoteNow what about the African American History Monument that was placed on state house grounds at the same time as the confederate memorial was placed there. Go or stay? Is there some aspect of that monument that is offensive to people? Or is it just that you need "your side" to get some concessions from "them"? If we stop looking at it as "us vs them" we might make some progress. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #252 July 7, 2015 DanGThe people of South Carloina have every right to honor the soldiers that fought for the state. No one is asking that the monument be taken down, only that the flag (which has been appropriated as a racist symbol) be removed. QuoteNow what about the African American History Monument that was placed on state house grounds at the same time as the confederate memorial was placed there. Go or stay? Is there some aspect of that monument that is offensive to people? Or is it just that you need "your side" to get some concessions from "them"? If we stop looking at it as "us vs them" we might make some progress. Whom are you saying is "us vs. them"? I know Divot. He doesn't think that way. I believe it to be that if one thing is a symbol of history that is to be removed because it symbolizes a bad thing, then anything related to that bad thing should be removed and banned as to not potentially offend anyone. NEWSFLASH: U.S. America doesn't have a spotless history. No country does. But I see no reason to try to forget the past. That is one sure way to ensure that mistakes get repeated.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #253 July 7, 2015 futuredivot"treasonous war waged" An interesting discussion on the topic http://history.stackexchange.com/questions/2056/was-the-secession-of-the-confederate-states-illegal Now what about the African American History Monument that was placed on state house grounds at the same time as the confederate memorial was placed there. Go or stay? What about it? Does it represent and glorify a treasonous war waged to support subjugation of one race by another?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #254 July 7, 2015 The problem with the Confederate Battle Flag is that it was appropriated in the 50s and 60s to be an anti-black, racist symbol. We can reflect on, and even celebrate, our history without using that symbol. For the same reason the swastika is no longer considered a socially acceptable symbol, even though it was a symbol used in some cultures since ancient times. If Divot doesn't think in an "us vs them" way, then why would a completely non-offensive memorial to African Americans have to be taken down as retribution for removing the battle flag from the Confederate soldiers' memorial? The only link between the two memorials was that the African American one was erected as part of the old deal that removed the battle flag from the top of the state capitol dome. Unless he's concerned about "them" winning, why suggest removing that memorial? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #255 July 7, 2015 turtlespeed***The people of South Carloina have every right to honor the soldiers that fought for the state. No one is asking that the monument be taken down, only that the flag (which has been appropriated as a racist symbol) be removed. QuoteNow what about the African American History Monument that was placed on state house grounds at the same time as the confederate memorial was placed there. Go or stay? Is there some aspect of that monument that is offensive to people? Or is it just that you need "your side" to get some concessions from "them"? If we stop looking at it as "us vs them" we might make some progress. Whom are you saying is "us vs. them"? I know Divot. He doesn't think that way. I believe it to be that if one thing is a symbol of history that is to be removed because it symbolizes a bad thing, then anything related to that bad thing should be removed and banned as to not potentially offend anyone. No one suggests banning it. Just remove it from flying in an honored place on public land.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #256 July 7, 2015 turtlespeed NEWSFLASH: U.S. America doesn't have a spotless history. No country does. But I see no reason to try to forget the past. That is one sure way to ensure that mistakes get repeated. Who's trying to forget the past? Have you forgotten every bit of history that isn't flown from the roof of a state building? TBH I'd say that people attempting to whitewash the confederacy and the route to war are attempting to forget history.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #257 July 7, 2015 jakee*** NEWSFLASH: U.S. America doesn't have a spotless history. No country does. But I see no reason to try to forget the past. That is one sure way to ensure that mistakes get repeated. Who's trying to forget the past? Have you forgotten every bit of history that isn't flown from the roof of a state building? TBH I'd say that people attempting to whitewash the confederacy and the route to war are attempting to forget history. If that's the case, then why not remove the red from all flags, as that is a reference to blood shed in battles.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #258 July 7, 2015 turtlespeed ********* SC Senate votes 37-3 to remove the flag from the statehouse grounds. I'm sure that solved everything. No, there are still some bigots in the House. Yes, yes there are!Another one who fell for it..... you guys are so easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #259 July 7, 2015 Funny, there didn't seem to be any real uproar of defense of the flag when it was removed from the capitol building itself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #260 July 7, 2015 That is not what St. Andrew's Cross signifies. It is a tribute to the cross he was crucified on. That is my understanding of it's use on the numerous flags throughout history. Unless we ask Remi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #261 July 7, 2015 http://freebeacon.com/politics/begala-hillary-clinton-needs-to-answer-for-confederate-flag-in-arkansas/ QuoteCNN political commentator Paul Begala, the co-chair of a pro-Hillary Clinton Super PAC, said Tuesday she would “absolutely” have to answer for her time as Arkansas First Lady when her husband stood by a flag with a blue star inspired by the state’s former membership in the Confederacy. “Sure, absolutely,” he said, when asked about the subject by New Day‘s Chris Cuomo. “Times change and circumstances change.” In 2007 Clinton came out and said that she was against the Confederate flag, but during her time as First Lady of Arkansas she stood by as Governor Bill Clinton observed Confederate Flag Day. In 1987, according to the Huffington Post, Clinton “signed a bill affirming that one of those blue stars is there in honor of the Confederate States of America.” http://allenbwest.com/2015/06/hillary-says-no-to-confederate-flag-but-look-at-what-we-found-wink-wink/ *** Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #262 July 7, 2015 normiss Funny, there didn't seem to be any real uproar of defense of the flag when it was removed from the capitol building itself. Yep. It didn't need to be up there. None of us really thought so-it was a "yeah, good idea, let's move it to a historical display"You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #263 July 7, 2015 So why is a repeat of that process so wrong to some? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #264 July 7, 2015 Marion County, Florida putting the idiocy on display again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #265 July 7, 2015 normiss Marion County, Florida putting the idiocy on display again. Well, the 1st Amendment gives people the right to advertise their idiocy. (And I suspect it is idiocy rather than malice.)... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #266 July 7, 2015 Other than it being flown over the local gooberment offices, I agree. Flying it there has nothing to do with the 1st. I know you know this though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #267 July 8, 2015 futuredivot"treasonous war waged" An interesting discussion on the topic http://history.stackexchange.com/questions/2056/was-the-secession-of-the-confederate-states-illegal Now what about the African American History Monument that was placed on state house grounds at the same time as the confederate memorial was placed there. Go or stay? Interesting non related observations 33% of the Klan members I know of (all dead now) were black men. Unannounced, unreported, several seedy looking white guys on motorcycles have been patrolling areas around traditionally black churches as a volunteer security measure. Admit it, there is a lot of southern, rural context you don't see from the view from rough, tough south Chicago. Just something I read this morning.... QuoteOn March 21, 1861, a former US senator from Georgia named Alexander Stephens, who had recently been elected vice president of the Confederate States of America, gave a speech in Savannah. His speech heralded the Confederate Constitution as a great improvement on the US Constitution. Stephens believed the US Constitution had been built on the sandy foundation, namely, the doctrine that "all men are created equal." By contrast, he asserted: "Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth." Surely if anyone understood what the Confederacy stood for, it would have been its vice-president. Confederacy-sympathizing whites in the 20th century had a term for this "great truth": White supremacy. And there you have it, by the Confederate vice president. The foundation of the Confederate States Of America, was racist.There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,371 #268 July 8, 2015 Hi Driver, Quote And there you have it, by the Confederate vice president. The foundation of the Confederate States Of America, was racist. Ratz. More facts, when will it ever stop? Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #269 July 8, 2015 >Ratz. More facts, when will it ever stop? Totally unfair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #270 July 9, 2015 billvon>Ratz. More facts, when will it ever stop? Totally unfair. Don't be racist, oh, I mean, factist.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #271 July 9, 2015 The Rebel Battle Flag is a symbol of hate and must be removed from all public areas. However, the U.S. Flag can be stomped on, burned, dipped in urine and feces and it is just an expression of free speech. I have trouble wrapping my mind around that.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #272 July 9, 2015 RonD1120The Rebel Battle Flag is a symbol of hate and must be removed from all public areas. However, the U.S. Flag can be stomped on, burned, dipped in urine and feces and it is just an expression of free speech. I have trouble wrapping my mind around that. It seems the Bill of Rights does present a problem for you.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #273 July 9, 2015 kallend***The Rebel Battle Flag is a symbol of hate and must be removed from all public areas. However, the U.S. Flag can be stomped on, burned, dipped in urine and feces and it is just an expression of free speech. I have trouble wrapping my mind around that. It seems the Bill of Rights does present a problem for you. No, just the PC one sided interpretation of them.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #274 July 9, 2015 RonD1120******The Rebel Battle Flag is a symbol of hate and must be removed from all public areas. However, the U.S. Flag can be stomped on, burned, dipped in urine and feces and it is just an expression of free speech. I have trouble wrapping my mind around that. It seems the Bill of Rights does present a problem for you. No, just the PC one sided interpretation of them. What part of the First Amendment is it that you do not understand?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #275 July 9, 2015 jclalor It's about time this treasonous and shameful flag is put on the trash heap of history. Looks like it will be coming down today. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
