Andy9o8 2 #326 July 13, 2015 DanGQuoteUm, well, history is usually written by the victors. So, without actually being there, how do you actually know? Or is it that you just believe what they tell you? Uh, yeah. You can access the texts of the Constitutions of the US and the Confederacy pretty easily. Unless you think the victors have gone back and rewritten them. And yes, I believe them when they tell me that the US succeeded in breaking off from England, and the South lost the Civil War. Do you have some inside intel to suggest that's not what happened? You're addressing a segment of society that was indoctrinated to refer to the "War of Northern Aggression". It's roughly akin to arguing with crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #327 July 13, 2015 DanGSo do you believe that the US Constitution is an equally admirable document to the Confederate Constitution? Do you recall the respective outcomes of the Revolutionary War and the Civil War? But see I'm not talking about the reasons each decided to do what they did or what was in each constitution, or the rebel flag right now. I am addressing posters calling the south traitors. The colonies and the confederacy acted against their parent countries in order to become a separate entity. The south is being called terrorist traitors by kallend and normiss, and ignoring the fact that the very country they live in did the exact same thing. You don't see the issue with that train of thought? One can sure argue the reasons each did what they did and the morality of each but in the end they each committed the same act with different outcomes obviously. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #328 July 13, 2015 Anvilbrother***So do you believe that the US Constitution is an equally admirable document to the Confederate Constitution? Do you recall the respective outcomes of the Revolutionary War and the Civil War? But see I'm not talking about the reasons each decided to do what they did or what was in each constitution, or the rebel flag right now. I am addressing posters calling the south traitors. The colonies and the confederacy acted against their parent countries in order to become a separate entity. The south is being called terrorist traitors by kallend and normiss, and ignoring the fact that the very country they live in did the exact same thing. You don't see the issue with that train of thought? One can sure argue the reasons each did what they did and the morality of each but in the end they each committed the same act with different outcomes obviously. When you break it down so simply, even kallend can understand the point you make. The Boston tea party was a terrorist act. Future Americans did not like the way they were being governed, regardless of the whys and what's they didn't agree with. Rebelling against the king of England made us traitors, but it's ok, because George Washington et all prevailed. the southern states doing the exact same thing, is wrong, and evil. I wonder how much a hypocrite you have to be to not see that logic, and believe there is much of a difference.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #329 July 13, 2015 Rebelling against the king of England made us traitors, but it's ok, because George Washington et all prevailed. the southern states doing the exact same thing, is wrong, and evil LOST. FIFY When England "lost", they didn't make a racist use of their flag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #330 July 13, 2015 normiss Rebelling against the king of England made us traitors, but it's ok, because George Washington et all prevailed. the southern states doing the exact same thing, is wrong, and evil LOST. FIFY When England "lost", they didn't make a racist use of their flag. But didn't you illude to the confederates as being traitors a few posts ago?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #331 July 13, 2015 The act of rebellion is what? They were traitorous against the federal gooberment were they not? I'm not sure everyone understands that word. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #332 July 13, 2015 QuoteMaybe continue bashing the reasons not the acts, So... you should criticize Tim McVeigh for thinking the Waco siege was a sign of a tyrannical government, but not for the fact that he killed 168 people while trying to inspire a rebellion?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #333 July 13, 2015 jakeeQuoteMaybe continue bashing the reasons not the acts, So... you should criticize Tim McVeigh for thinking the Waco siege was a sign of a tyrannical government, but not for the fact that he killed 168 people while trying to inspire a rebellion? It's almost like if you look at both the motivations and the actions, you get a complete context and then can fairly assess what actually occurred. Bizarre.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #334 July 14, 2015 Something to ponder..... http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/14/confederate-madness-then-and-now.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #335 July 14, 2015 I was of the understanding that the attached pic is the last flag of the Confederacy. No? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billeisele 130 #336 July 15, 2015 wmw999 I think I've figured it out. The people who actively display and wave the Confederate flag identify as Confederate-Americans. I just wonder why they can't just be Americans like the rest of us (I picked your post because you have a sense of humor Wendy P. love it, I only know one person that is a true African American, he was born in South Africa, currently lives in SC and has dual citizenship, he is white this fact came out in a public meeting and there were a few non-white folks that really didn't like what he had to say about his citizenship, bottom line is he was the only true African American in the room, it was quite amusingGive one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #337 July 15, 2015 normissThe act of rebellion is what? They were traitorous against the federal gooberment were they not? I'm not sure everyone understands that word. Freely joined and freely left the Union. There was never any attempt to overthrow the Federal Gov't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #338 July 15, 2015 More of the after shocks. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/14/living/feat-stone-mountain-georgia-naacp-confederate-symbol/ More of past the tipping point.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #339 July 15, 2015 winsor***The act of rebellion is what? They were traitorous against the federal gooberment were they not? I'm not sure everyone understands that word. Freely joined and freely left the Union. There was never any attempt to overthrow the Federal Gov't. You use an overly-narrow historical revisionist's definition of "traitor". (Same would go for the word "treason".) No, it's not mere semantics, either. See my post #77 above. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #340 July 15, 2015 RonD1120More of the after shocks. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/14/living/feat-stone-mountain-georgia-naacp-confederate-symbol/ More of past the tipping point. Not only that, the NAACP wants the confederate flag removed from state police vehicle insignia and uniform patches. Where do you draw the line?There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #341 July 15, 2015 Driver1***More of the after shocks. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/14/living/feat-stone-mountain-georgia-naacp-confederate-symbol/ More of past the tipping point. Not only that, the NAACP wants the confederate flag removed from state police vehicle insignia and uniform patches. Where do you draw the line? At the Pennsylvaia-Maryland border? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #342 July 15, 2015 Andy9o8 ******More of the after shocks. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/14/living/feat-stone-mountain-georgia-naacp-confederate-symbol/ More of past the tipping point. Not only that, the NAACP wants the confederate flag removed from state police vehicle insignia and uniform patches. Where do you draw the line? At the Pennsylvaia-Maryland border? This line? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMZfCar-Ks8 There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #343 July 15, 2015 Iago***More of the after shocks. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/14/living/feat-stone-mountain-georgia-naacp-confederate-symbol/ More of past the tipping point. Stone Mountain is private property. Good luck with that. This says the state bought it in 1958: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #344 July 15, 2015 But...it's a place of "worship"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #345 July 15, 2015 normiss But...it's a place of "worship"! Aren't those the Monty Python guys in front of the cross?"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #346 July 15, 2015 Driver1 *********More of the after shocks. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/14/living/feat-stone-mountain-georgia-naacp-confederate-symbol/ More of past the tipping point. Not only that, the NAACP wants the confederate flag removed from state police vehicle insignia and uniform patches. Where do you draw the line? At the Pennsylvaia-Maryland border? This line? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMZfCar-Ks8 Damn ...I thought Yosemite Sam was from California. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #347 July 15, 2015 Driver1***More of the after shocks. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/14/living/feat-stone-mountain-georgia-naacp-confederate-symbol/ More of past the tipping point. Not only that, the NAACP wants the confederate flag removed from state police vehicle insignia and uniform patches. Where do you draw the line? Yep. It's now moved to iconoclasm. In 2001 (before 9/11) there was a worldwide uproar as the Taliban destroyed the two Bamiyan Buddhas. On the basis that they were offensive. Back then, it was thought that iconoclasm was a bad thing because the act of destroying heritage, even if inconsistent with present mores, was extremist and intolerant in nature. I've seen posters on here talk about the right wing Sharia. The American Taliban. Well, right now I'm seeing a suggestion that is EXACTLY what the Taliban did. When some group starts to talk about burning books, stomping out albums (I'm dating myself), destroying art or otherwise destroying relics of heritage, it has moved onto something more despicable. If any of you ever get the chance to watch the "Rape of Europa" you can get an idea what I'm talking about. A group is destroyed by destroying its heritage. Its culture. Its art. The Taliban know it. ISIS knows it. The Germans knew it. It's a shame that some asshole who wanted to start a race war is actually being successful in it. Some racist white guy burns an Ameeican flag and kills a bunch of black people in a church? Time for war against Southern heritage. It's scary to me how few people are willing to speak out against it. Yes, I find the whole thing offensive. Which is exactly why it needs to exist. I want to see it myself sometime. I want to tour Auschwitz. Because we MUST be allowed to experience history Multiculturalism. Tolerance. They are all just words used by the antimulticultural and anti tolerant. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #348 July 15, 2015 While we're at it, we probably should ban the flag that the Union slave states were using ...especially since the Yankee-owned slaves were specifically and cruelly not freed by the Union President's E.P. (The ban should only apply to government buildings, of course ...free speech, and all). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #349 July 15, 2015 lawrocket******More of the after shocks. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/14/living/feat-stone-mountain-georgia-naacp-confederate-symbol/ More of past the tipping point. Not only that, the NAACP wants the confederate flag removed from state police vehicle insignia and uniform patches. Where do you draw the line? Yep. It's now moved to iconoclasm. In 2001 (before 9/11) there was a worldwide uproar as the Taliban destroyed the two Bamiyan Buddhas. On the basis that they were offensive. Back then, it was thought that iconoclasm was a bad thing because the act of destroying heritage, even if inconsistent with present mores, was extremist and intolerant in nature. I've seen posters on here talk about the right wing Sharia. The American Taliban. Well, right now I'm seeing a suggestion that is EXACTLY what the Taliban did. When some group starts to talk about burning books, stomping out albums (I'm dating myself), destroying art or otherwise destroying relics of heritage, it has moved onto something more despicable. If any of you ever get the chance to watch the "Rape of Europa" you can get an idea what I'm talking about. A group is destroyed by destroying its heritage. Its culture. Its art. The Taliban know it. ISIS knows it. The Germans knew it. It's a shame that some asshole who wanted to start a race war is actually being successful in it. Some racist white guy burns an Ameeican flag and kills a bunch of black people in a church? Time for war against Southern heritage. It's scary to me how few people are willing to speak out against it. Yes, I find the whole thing offensive. Which is exactly why it needs to exist. I want to see it myself sometime. I want to tour Auschwitz. Because we MUST be allowed to experience history Multiculturalism. Tolerance. They are all just words used by the antimulticultural and anti tolerant. Agreed... I do not support the destruction of monuments or carved statues that cannot be moved. There is a place for everything. In fact, there's an obelisk in Linn Park in downtown Birmingham honoring the Confederates. The city has reached out to the Daughters Of the Confederacy to see if they will take the monument and move it to their property. That is fine. Most of the other stuff belong in museums of southern history of the sort or in private collections. JMOThere will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #350 July 15, 2015 It's scary the amount of power we're giving racists and extremists these days, of all colors. Will this be targeted next? http://www.nps.gov/pete/learn/historyculture/the-crater.htm Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
