SCOTUS Ya'll can get your gay weddings now.

[Amazon 7]

kallend

***"using their religion to bludgeon people who are different from them"

Isn't that what religions do???

In a university we get all sorts. I've never been metaphorically bludgeoned by a Rastafarian, Shintoist, Buddhist and especially not by a Pastafarian.

In university there are plenty of the boys that want to touch the girls with their noodly appendage

[headoverheels 333]

kallend

However, I object strongly to tax-exempt status being allowed to any organization that practices discrimination.

I'd like to see tax exempt status be removed from all, along with the ability to deduct charitable contributions. That would remove the ability of government to apply such pressure.

[TriGirl 318]

RonD1120

My pastor announced yesterday that our denomination will not perform the ceremony or allow it to be held on any of its properties or extensions thereof.

This is the basis from which so many of the opposition statements are being presented -- except its a flawed premise. As many have since posted, most churches already practice some sort of policy that denies a wedding in their spaces. The most extreme of which (that I can think of right now) is the LDS church (Mormons). They deny their own followers the right to be married in the temple if those followers are not deemed in a good enough standing with Christ (by their sinful actions). They don't even allow non-members to ENTER the temple to be guests at a wedding being conducted there. So, I don't see any religion in general, or a particular local clergy or congregation, being sued or fined over refusing to officiate over (or host, or rent the church's space to) a same-sex wedding. And I can't imagine anyone really believing any court might try to make them.

Kallend

That's fine.
However, I object strongly to tax-exempt status being allowed to any organization that practices discrimination.

See above. Clergy have been denying to officiate weddings for couples they do not approve for many moons, for a myriad of reasons. This is nothing new.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[kallend 2,026]

TriGirl

Clergy have been denying to officiate weddings for couples they do not approve for many moons, for a myriad of reasons. This is nothing new.

Groucho Marx famously said he wouldn't want to join any club that would have him as a member.

OTOH I wonder why any couple would want to marry in a church that rejected them.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

kallend

*** Clergy have been denying to officiate weddings for couples they do not approve for many moons, for a myriad of reasons. This is nothing new.

Groucho Marx famously said he wouldn't want to join any club that would have him as a member.

OTOH I wonder why any couple would want to marry in a church that rejected them.

This. It doesn't offend me at all some churches won't perform same sex marriages. That's okay, you have different beliefs than I do, and good on you for sticking to them. I'll take my business elsewhere.

My parents are very devout Catholics, and are super happy that my boyfriend and I will be able to get married soon. No hard feelings on either side that we aren't able to travel home and have the ceremony in their Catholic church.

[rehmwa 2]

headoverheels

***
However, I object strongly to tax-exempt status being allowed to any organization that practices discrimination.

I'd like to see tax exempt status be removed from all, along with the ability to deduct charitable contributions. That would remove the ability of government to apply such pressure.

Yes - this. It's silly to tax exempt anything that collects revenue. Keep gov out of religion, out of charities, out political 'action' groups, etc. They should run as is under simple rules that apply to anything.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ryoder 1,590]

JohnnyMarko

My parents are very devout Catholics, and are super happy that my boyfriend and I will be able to get married soon.

I thought you were already married.
Wait...you've been living in sin???

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[RonD1120 62]

kallend

OTOH I wonder why any couple would want to marry in a church that rejected them.

Yeah, and why would they want a baker to bake them a wedding cake if the baker rejected their union? Oh, I forgot, it is the liberal war against Christianity.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Amazon 7]

RonD1120

***
OTOH I wonder why any couple would want to marry in a church that rejected them.

Yeah, and why would they want a baker to bake them a wedding cake if the baker rejected their union? Oh, I forgot, it is the liberal war against Christianity.

There need to be war on idiots like this one.. filthy minds.....

http://crimefeed.com/2015/06/teddy-bear-cake/

[ryoder 1,590]

Amazon

There need to be war on idiots like this one.. filthy minds.....

http://crimefeed.com/2015/06/teddy-bear-cake/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Amazon 7]

ryoder

***

There need to be war on idiots like this one.. filthy minds.....

http://crimefeed.com/2015/06/teddy-bear-cake/

My Aunt "The Church Lady"... knows all about that "perverted" stuff.... I have some really twisted friends.. who do not know as much about that crap as she does....

[GeorgiaDon 362]

rehmwa

******
However, I object strongly to tax-exempt status being allowed to any organization that practices discrimination.

I'd like to see tax exempt status be removed from all, along with the ability to deduct charitable contributions. That would remove the ability of government to apply such pressure.

Yes - this. It's silly to tax exempt anything that collects revenue. Keep gov out of religion, out of charities, out political 'action' groups, etc. They should run as is under simple rules that apply to anything.Perhaps unfortunately, it's not that simple. The tax-exempt status of churches is based in the First Amendment. The ability to tax is a form of power, with the side doing the taxing in the superior position and the side paying in the subordinate position. If any level of government were to attempt to tax churches that would amount to asserting control or power over the church, and violate the separation of church and state. Before governments could tax churches, the First Amendment would have to be repealed or substantially modified to remove the "establishment" clause, and that is a non-starter. Probably that's just as well, because the First Amendment is the main thing that protects us from "true believers" who would use the legislative system to impose their religion on all of us.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rehmwa 2]

Stop that, I'm trying to oversimplify here dammit.

(my bias is that I consider Churches to just be another money making endeavor, and maybe just a simple charitable organization as well - 'Church' does not equal "religion", or "faith" IMHO so the protections that individuals ("individuals" is a big thing in my politics) get shouldn't necessarily be applied to some conglomerate that claims to service people's faiths. But then I need to be consistent and then also state the same then for charities, etc.....)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[yoink 321]

RonD1120

Yeah, and why would they want a baker to bake them a wedding cake if the baker rejected their union? Oh, I forgot, it is the liberal war against Christianity.

Nope.

That argument doesn't hold water.

I don't care if subcontractors don't like or approve of me. They're paid to do a job, and they should do it professionally if they agree to the contract. I can't force them into accepting a job from me.
That's entirely different to me legally opting into a club that I know doesn't want me.

By your rationale, beliefs that someone has follows all the way up the chain and trumps everything that comes after. OH NOES! I'm using a computer that has a microchip which was soldered by a person who doesn't hold the same beliefs as I do! I'd best not use it...

That's just an argument to gather as much power as possible for a religion, and you're damn right. That I WOULD fight against. Call it a war if you want. I call it a fight for liberty... something I would have thought a patriot like you would understand.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

ryoder

***
My parents are very devout Catholics, and are super happy that my boyfriend and I will be able to get married soon.

I thought you were already married.
Wait...you've been living in sin???

Not married, but I'm sure some of posts have been misleading. Not legally married on paper, but my boyfriend and I, and lots of our friends and family, consider us 'married' since we've been together for so long. Stupid legal system.

[gowlerk 2,190]

Quote

Oh, I forgot, it is the liberal war against Christianity.

This is a little much. Do you fail to see that Jesus was perhaps the most radical liberal in history? And that he had a very low opinion of the priests in the temples? Why don't you try following Christ's teachings if you are going to insist that you are a Christian? It's very hard to imagine Christ being in favor of oppressing people.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,991]

> The ability to tax is a form of power, with the side doing the taxing in the superior
>position and the side paying in the subordinate position. If any level of government
>were to attempt to tax churches that would amount to asserting control or power over
>the church, and violate the separation of church and state.

There is no Constitutional requirement that demands a separation of church and state. All that is required is that Congress does not pass any laws that respect a specific establishment of religion. Thus:

A law that says the Catholic Church must pay taxes - unconstitutional

A law that says all organizations must pay taxes - constitutional

A law that says all churches must pay a special tax - gray area; this is treating all religions equally, but an argument could be made that atheism (or Pastafarianism or whatever) qualifies as a religion under the First Amendment and thus some religions are treated differently

A law that says churches pay no tax - also a gray area. Congress is passing a law respecting religions, but it is equally applied to all religions, so often is considered OK.

[Coreeece 2]

Amazon

SCOTUS has ruled... Same sex is legal across the land.

Ok, great...now can we get back to running this God-damned fucking country? (no vanity implied...)

Not sure why we ever had to vote on this in the first place....it just caused unnecessary division.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

Amazon

******SCOTUS has ruled... Same sex is legal across the land.

Good deal. Live and let live.

I have always been of the opinion.. If you do not like gay weddings.... do not have one

BUT... if you wish to have one... it has zero effect on my life.

I would happily make a professional video for a gay couple, but I would not be apart of their wedding....it's none of my business, right?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Amazon 7]

ryoder

***

There need to be war on idiots like this one.. filthy minds.....

http://crimefeed.com/2015/06/teddy-bear-cake/

Another one.... more in line with the thread. Any bets on what other News channels he watches???

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/angry-ark-man-nbc-changed-peacock-colors-gays-article-1.2275689

[Amazon 7]

Coreeece

*********SCOTUS has ruled... Same sex is legal across the land.

Good deal. Live and let live.

I have always been of the opinion.. If you do not like gay weddings.... do not have one

BUT... if you wish to have one... it has zero effect on my life.

I would happily make a professional video for a gay couple, but I would not be apart of their wedding....it's none of my business, right?

That depends on if you have any gay friends that invite you to their wedding.... would that be a living hell for you or a celebration of life??

[Coreeece 2]

JerryBaumchen

I do not know of a religion that does not discriminate.

Christianity certainly discriminates against sin - no question about that. Homosexuality is just as much a sin as me jerking off to Jessica Rabbit during my pubescence...and then some.

I suppose my biggest problem is turning that sin into a lifestyle that is acceptable to Christianity. If you want to create your own religion that accepts same sex anal, then you are free to do so, but I think you'll have a difficult time including the bible into your threesome.

Some homosexuals have said that the gay rainbow in Dublin during the same sex vote was a sign of Jesus's acceptance of homosexuals.......well, as a true believer, all I have to say is that there were many signs that I also thought were from God, but I was sorely disappointed....

My fiance was just diagnosed with an anaplastic astrocytoma....she recently saw a rainbow through her hospital window as a sign of hope.

Pardon me if it seemed as though I equated homosexuality as a cancer....

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

Amazon

************SCOTUS has ruled... Same sex is legal across the land.

Good deal. Live and let live.

I have always been of the opinion.. If you do not like gay weddings.... do not have one

BUT... if you wish to have one... it has zero effect on my life.

I would happily make a professional video for a gay couple, but I would not be apart of their wedding....it's none of my business, right?

That depends on if you have any gay friends that invite you to their wedding.... would that be a living hell for you or a celebration of life??

Just don't sue me for not showing up...

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[RonD1120 62]

I think you missed the point of my post. However, your comment prompted me to reply.

If you read the Holy Bible you would see that God's Word does not teach fairness. That, IMO, is where most people fall in error.

The Bible teaches justice and relationship with Him through Jesus Christ as the pathway.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wmw999 2,445]

I didn't get that from your post, and I'm really sorry to hear about your fiancée.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)