More mass shootings

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I'm out

I would rather you stayed and continued to offer your opinion. I am not here because I want people to agree with me. I am here to listen to and try to understand the opposing viewpoint.

Derek V

[normiss 800]

I do like that we have a few here that feel that way, this place has had me consider polar opposite views.
I'm tired of being attacked for having an opinion though.
It gets old quick. Even worse when it's constant.

I'll be sure my voice and opinions are heard where it's valued.

As much as some won't believe it, I understand and support the right to own guns, I just want to see it done responsibly. It's not currently.

[aonsquared 9]

Hooknswoop

My favorite anti-gun argument is, "Why do you need a ____________?" Imagine if I asked you why you need the right to free speech? If you cannot justify needing that right, then we should take it away.

Free speech is a requirement for democracy. Democracy, by definition, is choosing government and leaders through a vote. If there is no free speech, then voting (a form of speech) against the current government can be disallowed. Therefore if that right is taken away, it ceases to be a democracy. Would you like to discuss another item in the Bill of Rights?

So why do you need a gun?

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Free speech is a requirement for democracy.

I can reply that you have not convinced me that you need free speech. You could live your life just fine without it. Obviously, I am for free speech. My point is the phrasing of the argument. You do not have to justify your rights to me or anyone else.

Derek V

[yoink 321]

We fixed this issue in the UK in the 1800's by making it illegal. Children were not allowed to be sent down coal mines due to the hazard inherent in the environment. It's obscene that it''s taking so long for effective legislation to be put in place in the US.

It's obvious that schools are lethally dangerous to children. Children should be banned from being sent to school. Only in this way will we stop seeing this same situation again and again.

[aonsquared 9]

Given that I was born in a country under dictatorship at the time, yes I agree people can live just fine without free speech.

Free speech is not a requirement for "living just fine" (which can be interpreted in many, many ways) it's a requirement for a democracy. Dictionary definition of democracy. Was my phrasing unclear?

[millertime24 8]

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No citizen should have a right to an AR.

And thank the fuck Christ you don't write legislation. Oh, and thanks for the veiled personal attack claiming that I support the killing of children. Really mature of you.

Muff #5048

[gowlerk 2,192]

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Oh, and thanks for the veiled personal attack claiming that I support the killing of children. Really mature of you.

Gun rights fanatics do not support the killing of children. But they would rather see more children killed than give up their rights to play with whatever guns they choose. So they are not death supporters, but rather death enablers.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Gun rights fanatics do not support the killing of children. But they would rather see more children killed than give up their rights to play with whatever guns they choose. So they are not death supporters, but rather death enablers.

I do not see how giving up my gun rights is going to change anything.

Derek V

[billvon 2,991]

>I do not see how giving up my gun rights is going to change anything.

Certainly giving up many of them would change things.

In Australia, after a mass shooting, there was a gun buyback - and they got back 20% of all firearms in Australia, including most rifles. They then prohibited private sales (i.e. the "gun show loophole"), required registration of all weapons, and required presentation of a "genuine reason" to justify purchase of a new weapon.

The results:

59% reduction in homicide by firearm
No attendant increase in homicides by other means (i.e. "they'll just use knives or spoons instead" didn't happen)
Zero mass shooting since.

So such draconian measures do indeed work - and have been proven to do so.

Hopefully gun rights advocates will be willing to work on a compromise so it doesn't have to come to that.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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>I do not see how giving up my gun rights is going to change anything.

Certainly giving up many of them would change things.

We gave up some rights in Colorado. You said it would help and be enforceable. You were wrong. Now you want me to give up many more rights.

there are other options besides gun control, that WILL work.

Derek V

[DJL 235]

Hooknswoop

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>I do not see how giving up my gun rights is going to change anything.

Certainly giving up many of them would change things.

We gave up some rights in Colorado. You said it would help and be enforceable. You were wrong. Now you want me to give up many more rights.

there are other options besides gun control, that WILL work.

Derek V

Gun restrictions in individual states are basically ceremonial, there needs to be a national standard. There is very little stopping a type of weapon in Virginia from getting into Maryland.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,991]

>Now you want me to give up many more rights.

Nope. I want to come up with solutions that do NOT require you to "give up many more rights." Yet you have been pretty much universally opposed to anything that affects gun owners at all.

>there are other options besides gun control, that WILL work.

Great! Let's implement them.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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>there are other options besides gun control, that WILL work.

Great! Let's implement them.

OK! How?

Derek V

[DanG 1]

What rights did Coloradoans give up?

- Dan G

[billvon 2,991]

>OK! How?

You said that "there are other options besides gun control, that WILL work." So let's hear them.

[jclalor 12]

rushmc

And you're damn right we need to deal with insanity! But as soon as somebody goes to gun control they're ignoring the issue and the problems and turning it into a political bunch of bullshit which it's not. It's a social l problem we deal with in the United States. Has something to do with the way we glamorise shooting and killings in our movies and in our video games. Plus the vitriol we are seeing on the TV politically doesn't help either. It's a complex problem that has nothing to do with guns!

The constitution guarantees my RIGHT to watch anything violent or to play any violent games that I see fit. Today you may want to get rid of GTA, and then tomorrow you’re coming for my Monopoly or Candy Land. Well I say no! I will not give an inch. I’ll give up my Candy Land when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

[tkhayes 348]

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We now know this was a sick individual who's dangerous tendencies were pointed out to law enforcement.

There was a chance to stop him. And it did not happen.Frown

that may be but we are also not going to do anything about that either. The NRA is not proposing that we do anything about that. There is no focus in their programs to stop people from having guns that should not have guns, they simply parrot the line.

Quite the opposite actually - if we propose ANY legislation that reduces peoples rights to have guns, even if they are mentally ill, the NRA speaks out against it because it is a slippery slope -

so until we have an absolutely 100% perfect solution to the problem that is guaranteed (ahead of time) to work and 100% of the people agree on it... we will do nothing, offer nothing and attempt no solution.

Reiterating my claim that the gun lobby does not give a flying fuck about human life at any level. In fact I am pretty sure they are plugging the 'glory and distinction' of the ability for the 'victim American' gunning down their fellow American in self defense.... pretty much the flag that is flying on the pole for the past 30 years.

It is fucking nauseating.

[billvon 2,991]

Looks like the shooter was a member of a white supremacist group that he also trained with, called the Republic of Florida. From AP:

========================
12:50 p.m.

The leader of a white nationalist militia says Florida school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz was a member of his group and participated in paramilitary drills in Tallahassee.

Jordan Jereb told The Associated Press on Thursday that his group, the Republic of Florida, wants Florida to become its own white ethno-state.
============================

I wonder if Trump knows yet? I'm waiting for the "there is blame on both sides" tweet.

[Phil1111 1,149]

Ex-students say he wore a ‘Make America Great Again’ hat in school.

“I saw him wear a Trump hat,” said Sebastian Gonzalez, a 19-year-old who graduated in 2017.

Ocean Parodie, a 17-year-old junior, said Cruz was politically extreme.

“For example, he would degrade Islamic people as terrorists and bombers. I've seen him wear a Trump hat,” Parodie said.

Cruz wore the Trump hat in a photo on an Instagram account the company said belonged to him. Over his face he wore a red, white, and blue bandana. On that account and another one, Cruz posted photos of guns, knives, anti-Muslim slurs, and a picture of a toad he killed.

On YouTube, a person by the same name spewed hateful commentary about anti-fascists.

Cruz also celebrated Elliot Rodger, the gunman who killed seven people at the University of California, Santa Barbara in 2014, and who is considered a hero of the fringe men's rights movement.

“Elliot rodger will not be forgotten,” he commented on one video one year ago. Cruz also commented on a CNN video called, “Is our culture to blame for Elliot Rodger’s rants?”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/nikolas-cruz-trained-with-florida-white-supremacist-group-leader-says

[rushmc 23]

This has nothing to do with the NRA.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Phil1111

Ex-students say he wore a ‘Make America Great Again’ hat in school.

“I saw him wear a Trump hat,” said Sebastian Gonzalez, a 19-year-old who graduated in 2017.

Ocean Parodie, a 17-year-old junior, said Cruz was politically extreme.

“For example, he would degrade Islamic people as terrorists and bombers. I've seen him wear a Trump hat,” Parodie said.

Cruz wore the Trump hat in a photo on an Instagram account the company said belonged to him. Over his face he wore a red, white, and blue bandana. On that account and another one, Cruz posted photos of guns, knives, anti-Muslim slurs, and a picture of a toad he killed.

On YouTube, a person by the same name spewed hateful commentary about anti-fascists.

Cruz also celebrated Elliot Rodger, the gunman who killed seven people at the University of California, Santa Barbara in 2014, and who is considered a hero of the fringe men's rights movement.

“Elliot rodger will not be forgotten,” he commented on one video one year ago. Cruz also commented on a CNN video called, “Is our culture to blame for Elliot Rodger’s rants?”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/nikolas-cruz-trained-with-florida-white-supremacist-group-leader-says

Who the hell pays you to post this shit?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

I found an article on kind of a obscure site that had most of what you posted on it. Funny thing is you left some key details out. Such as he appeared not to be political but was more enamored by guns. His extreme views and group affiliations, such as you had on here we're also pointed out. Seems funny to leave out the part where it says he's not political though. I guess lying by Omission is okay.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Bob_Church 7]

Hooknswoop

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>there are other options besides gun control, that WILL work.

Great! Let's implement them.

OK! How?

Derek V

We need to repeal Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. It's been legally impossible to sue gun manufacturers since 2005. Anyone who has been in power since then is complicit in the carnage. Repeal that, forget the NRA, they're smoke, and publicize where the guns are really coming from. Sorry Joe Lieberman, the curtain is coming back. Let the lawsuits take care of it. First of course, someone let Trump know this law exists.

[billvon 2,991]

>I found an article on kind of a obscure site that had most of what you posted on it.

An "obscure site" like AOL and the UK Mirror?

Who the hell pays you to post this shit?