More mass shootings

[kallend 2,103]

  timski

Society is at fault, not guns or the manufactures. "We" have serious mental health problems in this country and that will only continue to grow. The problem with sick people who are compelled to lash out will NEVER go away...

Of course, there's no mental illness, video games or TV in the other G20 nations (the ones with murder rates a fraction of ours).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[riggerrob 643]

Dang!
That was as too close for comfort!
We ate at the “Landings” several times while attending Parachute Industry Symposia in Jacksonville, Florida.

The first time we attended a PIA Symposium in Jacksonville, we asked our shuttle bus driver about sight-seeing in Jacksonville. “What will we find if we walk six blocks north of the convention hotel?”
He replied “Trouble.”

Was the gunman a local?
Was he only in town for the video-gaming convention?

One measure of a society is how they challenge teenagers .... especially male teenagers.
Do they point teenagers towards academics?
Do they point teenagers towards construction trades?
Do they point teenagers towards music/arts?
Do they point teenagers towards the drug trade?
Do they point teenagers towards video games?
Do they point teenagers towards random (or religious) acts of violence?

Recently Joe Rohan interviewed an American Army, Special Forces recruiter who complained about the tiny pool of physically-fit American teenagers that he could recruit from. He blamed the recent rise in obesity (30% of high school students) on the internet.

[yoink 321]

I’m honestly curious, how do you think mental health problems might be identified and prevented across 600 million people before they become an issue?

[riggerrob 643]

No.
But we find it amusing that - after the spectacular mass shooting/suicide - people find old year book comments like “voted most likely to be a mass shooter.”
My point is that family and friends and co-workers should be held responsible for helping people with mental illnesses.

Read what (retired US Navy SEAL) James Hatch has to say about the importance of team-mates in his recovery from a gunshot wound, opiate addiction, alcoholism and suicidal tendencies in his book “Touching the Dragon.”

[yoink 321]

I absolutely get the importance of having a support structure in maintaining a healthy mental profile.

I'm simply saying that gun advocates seem to point out that gun violence a mental-health issue without ever seeming to go into detail about HOW that would be enacted, probably because they know how impossible it would be...
Suggest the impossible and nothing will happen, which is exactly what they want.
"Look! I'm helping by suggesting alternatives!"


Pretty much the only possible way for it to be done would be:

1) For everyone who wanted to own a gun to have regular, mandatory mental health screenings (once a year maybe).

2) To have a database that is linked between those screening results and gun sales.

3) To prohibit private gun sales that don't reference the database with severe sentences.

4) To have some sort of 'social reporting system' in place where people can report others after a significant event who they think might be unsafe to hold a gun license which would then require a renewal of their mental health check.

5) To have a dedicated federal agency to keep track of all of this.


and even all of this wouldn't necessarily stop all of the mass shootings and would never be accepted by people who believe in their rights to access to firearms.



Mental health is an important factor in gun crimes, sure. But then so are the actual guns themselves...

[yoink 321]

  riggerrob

He blamed the recent rise in obesity (30% of high school students) on the internet.

Of course he did. But he's wrong.
That's just lazy thinking.

The internet doesn't cause obesity. If it did then you'd see the same obesity figures around the world (as the internet is available everywhere). It's illogical and bad science to suggest that.

Poor parenting, poor diet, the easy availability of cheap food laced with sugars, the 'ready meal' microwaving culture of dinners - all these things have an impact in obesity. So do dozens of other factors.

If you start believing someone (who with the greatest respect doesn't have any qualifications to state how the internet and obesity are linked) just because they're in a profession you respect then you're not doing yourself justice in analyzing a problem.
Listen to a SF recruiter about the problems he faces, sure, or about how best to recruit people. Those are his areas of expertise, but listen to sociologists, nutritionists and doctors when it comes to healthcare and obesity rates in society.

[riggerrob 643]

I disagree.
North America was the first continent to gain widespread access to the internet, ergo. Internet-induced obesity was first noticed in NA.
Similarly, NA was among the First Nations where video games gained wide acceptance. Ergo more hours devoted to chasing electronic soccer balls and fewer hours devoted to chasing real soccer balls.
The NA economy was one of the first to industrialize, ergo one of the first where both parents working outside the home became the norm, ergo. Fewer hours per day devoted to child-reading. Some poor nations will never industrialize.
Similarly, with both parents working outside the home, there is less time to cook nutritious foods from raw ingredients, ergo. the increase in sugary fast-foods.

[RMK 3]

  riggerrob

NA economy was one of the first to industrialize

No, I think you'll find Britain got the Industrial Revolution started.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[riggerrob 643]

  RMK

***NA economy was one of the first to industrialize

No, I think you'll find Britain got the Industrial Revolution started.

——————————————————————————————

I said “one of the first”.
We can agree that Great Britain was the first to industrialize with steam power, coal mines, railroads, steel mills, etc.
France was close behind, then Belgium, USA, Canada, etc.
By 1914, Germany was rapidly industrializing with Russia slowly industrializing.
Many of the poorer countries in Africa and Asia will never industrialize.

[riggerrob 643]

The September 2018 issue of National Geographic Magazine has an article about facial transplants. One tried to commit suicide with a gun. One was shot by her husband. One accidentally shot himself with a shotgun. One crashed his truck into a tree. 3 out of 4 were shot in the face.
How many of those people would need facial reconstruction surgery if there were no guns in their homes?

[tkhayes 348]

another one of the costs to society that no one is measuring. not only in quality of life values, but actual dollars....

We hail the science as heroic and 'wow', but the cost is staggering and we all pay for it somehow.

[billvon 3,058]

>How many of those people would need facial reconstruction surgery if there were no
>guns in their homes?

Yep. It's easy to think that the "cost" of mass shootings is only in the number of people killed. But the cost is far higher than that. In the Las Vegas shooting, for example, "only" 58 people were killed, but 422 were shot. Their pain and suffering, their hospitalization, lost income, and lost abilities are another big part of the cost.

We recently sold a house to a woman who was shot in the arm at that concert. She was in the hospital for weeks. (And of course she is now being sued by the MGM hotel for being shot.) Fortunately she regained almost full use of the arm - but many others weren't so lucky.

[riggerrob 643]

The lawyer - who launched that lawsuit for MGM - deserves to be shot ......... er ........ left to rot in a septic tank for a week.

[kallend 2,103]

(AP, 13 Sep 2018) A Bakersfield, California gunman killed five people, including his wife, before killing himself as a Kern County sheriff's deputy closed in Wednesday, authorities said. Officials are talking to at least 30 witnesses.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,103]

This year, there have been more than 300 mass shootings. Those are in addition to the accidental shootings, domestic killings, gang homicides and suicides that don’t garner national headlines.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,058]

It is sad that we have so many shootings here that it's now not uncommon for people to survive (or not survive) multiple mass shootings.

=====================
Man who survived Vegas shooting died in Thousand Oaks massacre
NBC News

The mother of a 27-year-old man killed in the shooting in Thousand Oaks, Calif. late Thursday night said her son had survived the October mass shooting in Las Vegas.

Telemachus "Tel" Orfanos lost his life in the Borderline Bar and Grill, less than 10 minutes from his home.

Susan Schmidt-Orfanos, her voice and head shaking with grief and rage, said outside her family's home, "My son was in Las Vegas with one of his friends and he came home. He didn't come home last night. And I don't want prayers, I don't want thoughts, I want gun control and I hope to God nobody else sends me more prayers. I want gun control. No. More. Guns."

She said she wanted Congress "to pass gun control so no one else has a child that doesn't come home."
=======================
Washington Post

The shooting unfolded a little more than a year after a lone gunman opened fire from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino in Las Vegas, killing 58 people. The Sutherland Springs church massacre that killed 26 people followed just weeks later.

Many of those at the Las Vegas festival last year had come from California, and some at the venue in Thousand Oaks also said they survived that earlier attack. Chandler Gunn, 23, told the Los Angeles Times that when he heard about the shooting, he called a friend who works at the bar and was also at the Route 91 Harvest Festival targeted in Las Vegas a year earlier.
========================

[DJL 235]

America welcome to the new normal, courtesy of the politically stubborn.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 3,058]

  On 11/9/2018 at 4:44 PM, DJL said:

America welcome to the new normal, courtesy of the politically stubborn.

 

And today's mass shooting results in five dead and five police injured in Illinois.

I will be interested to see what the right wing's reaction will be when the next democratic president declares an emergency due to all the mass shootings, and implements emergency gun control laws.  Surely if the lack of a border wall is an emergency, a problem that kills over a thousand Americans (and hundreds of kids) a year qualifies as an even bigger emergency.

[kallend 2,103]

  On 2/16/2019 at 12:17 AM, billvon said:

And today's mass shooting results in five dead and five police injured in Illinois.

I will be interested to see what the right wing's reaction will be when the next democratic president declares an emergency due to all the mass shootings, and implements emergency gun control laws.  Surely if the lack of a border wall is an emergency, a problem that kills over a thousand Americans (and hundreds of kids) a year qualifies as an even bigger emergency.

Now that Trump has claimed that the 25th Amendment to the Constitution is unConstitutional, a future president can claim the same about the 2nd, right?

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/430145-trump-tweets-dershowitz-quote-calling-use-of-25th-amendment

[gowlerk 2,245]

This, not a mass shooting, but a perfect example of what happens when human being with tempers carry people killing machines with them all the time. They sometimes use them to kill people. And no one is surprised and no one can do anything to change the situation. Remember the dead children.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/06/us/phoenix-summer-brown-road-rage-shooting/index.html

[Coreece 190]

  On 4/6/2019 at 2:43 PM, gowlerk said:

 https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/06/us/phoenix-summer-brown-road-rage-shooting/index.html 

And no one is surprised and no one can do anything to change the situation.

With 5G well on it's way, expect to hear more about autonomous vehicles that will reduce the overall amount of road rage incidents in general, not just the ones involving guns.

Autonomous vehicles should also give EVs the boost they've needed.  GM's recent cuts are part of a restructuring plan that includes doubling it's investment in AVs and EVs over the next 2 years and unleashing 20 different EV models within the next 4 years.  By 2025 they expect to be selling 1 million EVs per year, which will create a more gayful driving experience.

 

[Stumpy 284]

  On 4/8/2019 at 12:54 PM, Coreece said:

With 5G well on it's way, expect to hear more about autonomous vehicles that will reduce the overall amount of road rage incidents in general, not just the ones involving guns.

Autonomous vehicles should also give EVs the boost they've needed.  GM's recent cuts are part of a restructuring plan that includes doubling it's investment in AVs and EVs over the next 2 years and unleashing 20 different EV models within the next 4 years.  By 2025 they expect to be selling 1 million EVs per year, which will create a more gayful driving experience.

 

Agree with regards to Autonomous vehicles - I'm actually pretty relieved that by the time I can't drive any more I probably won't need to! Autonomous and EV does go hand in hand.

5G doesn't really help autonomy though - thats a bit of a myth coming from the carriers pushing 5G. Not until there is a chance of the whole country being properly blanketed, which will not happen - potentially ever. I'm lucky enough to work with some guys who are working on Autonomous driving software and 5G apparently isn't even really talked about in that context.

[Coreece 190]

  On 4/8/2019 at 8:51 PM, Stumpy said:

  On 4/8/2019 at 12:54 PM, Coreece said:

Autonomous vehicles should also give EVs the boost they've needed.  GM's recent cuts are part of a restructuring plan that includes doubling it's investment in AVs and EVs over the next 2 years and unleashing 20 different EV models within the next 4 years.  By 2025 they expect to be selling 1 million EVs per year, which will create a more gayful driving experience.

 

Agree with regards to Autonomous vehicles - I'm actually pretty relieved that by the time I can't drive any more I probably won't need to! Autonomous and EV does go hand in hand.

5G doesn't really help autonomy though - thats a bit of a myth coming from the carriers pushing 5G. Not until there is a chance of the whole country being properly blanketed, which will not happen - potentially ever. I'm lucky enough to work with some guys who are working on Autonomous driving software and 5G apparently isn't even really talked about in that context.

To keep this thread on topic, I posted my reply in the Green New Deal thread.

 

[kallend 2,103]

24 hours have elapsed and a mass shooting (in Virginia Beach) is now so mundane that no-one has bothered to mention it until now.

I guess we just accept that mass murder is part of the normal rhythm of life in the USA, and choose not to do anything about it beyond the useless "thoughts and prayers".

[yoink 321]

Yup.

 

I thought about posting, but really, what’s the point?

 

A while ago I asked people here what they considered an acceptable cost for their 2nd amendment rights were - was it worth the cost of x mass shootings a year? What if it involved a neighbor? Or a family member? IIRC only riggerrob answered directly.

From that I worked out that for staunch supporters of gun rights this isn't something that can be discussed or argued rationally, at least to me. It's as much a belief as any religion is. That's why I just don't 'get' it - It's not a logical position in how I frame my world view.

They may not say it out loud, they may not even internalize it, but I suspect that many of them wouldn't change their stance even if it were a close family member involved. Once you make that leap then it's obvious - no matter how well I construct an argument, or how eloquently I argue it there is NO chance I will change their minds. Absolutely none. If the death of a family member won't do it then what chance would my words have? It's talking for the sake of it.

So that's why I've given up lamenting about the latest mass killing on here. It'll keep happening and the only recourse we have is hope. Hope that big number theory keeps me and my family safe.

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by yoink