More mass shootings

[billvon 2,991]

>It has never been a gun issue. It's a mental health issue.

"It's not a gun issue! It's a mental health issue! Or a door issue! Yeah, that's it, there are too many doors. Or it's that Jesus isn't present enough in society. It's video games! Or abortion. That's right, abortion causes shootings. All those families without fathers and whatnot. No, actually we don't have _enough_ guns. That's the problem. Not like what those libtards say."

I have a feeling that the gun nuts don't even know how foolish they look right now.

>There are already laws on the book. They just need to be better enforced.

So it's not a gun issue. But it is a gun issue and the gun control laws we have are plenty to deal with the issue.

The far right wing, more and more, is becoming the refuge of ignorance and unreason. Guns have nothing to do with gun deaths. Vaccines cause autism. The climate isn't changing! Evolution doesn't exist; the Earth was created 5000 years ago, and women came from a rib of Adam's. The liberals are making frogs gay! And pollution doesn't hurt anyone; it's the smell of progress.

There's a reason Trump loves the poorly educated - it's easier to get them to swallow such nonsense. (And it works well for the ignorant, as well - there's a place for them to go that will accept them without question.)

[riggerrob 643]

billvon

....... The far right wing, more and more, is becoming the refuge of ignorance and unreason. ........... There's a reason Trump loves the poorly educated - it's easier to get them to swallow such nonsense. ........

——————————————————————————————

This reminds me of a Saturday breakfast conversation with a elder from my church. We were discussing letters attributed to the Apostle Paul and concluded that he wrote those letters on two different levels, symultaneously.
The first level was for scholars, rulers and priests who had the time - and background knowledge - to debate the finer points of theology for weeks on end.
The second level was written for illiterate peasants - with busy lives - who only had time to absorb one simple answer.
Sadly, the current era - of 15 second news bites - is dumbing down the masses. Curious people really struggle to learn the whole truth. That is why I read 3 or more sources - about the same headline - before reaching my own opinion.
While living in Southern California, I often drove 90 minutes - to an obscure - magazine shop that sold: The New York Times, Paris Match, der Spiegle, Toronto Globe and Mail, Manchester Guardian, etc. because I knew that American media would only tell me one - narrowly focussed - facet of any story.

p.s. The church elder is a Unitarian while I was born into a long line of Universalists.

[riggerrob 643]

........ By adding security that you want you're treating a symptom, not the root cause.
———————————————————————————————-
A typical government response to a symptom .... Give more power to middle-class, white men. Pay them a reasonable wage (with lots of civil service benefits and a pension) and they will re-elect incumbent politicians.
Funny how zero dollars are spent towards helping troubled kids learn less violent ways to solve their sociological problems. ????? V

[DJL 235]

Quote

It has never been a gun issue. It's a mental health issue. There are already laws on the book. They just need to be better enforced. Even then, that won't stop every shooting. Changing the school configuration to a single point entry with working metal detectors will help. But it's not what the libtards want.

You're not even trying now, you just like writing the word "libtard".

Anyway, seems like the Reichwingtards need to figure something out before it's figured out for them. Those kids who are ACTUALLY living under the threat of mass shootings are going to vote en mass soon and they're thinking "BAN".

As for mental health again, the Reichwingtards keep ignoring that only 25% of shooting involve someone with a mental health issue (that's no small cookie but it's not a solution) and that fewer than 2% of gun homicides involve someone with mental heath issues. Aside from that, many of those individuals were undergoing treatment for those issues and the owners of the guns they used knew about it. So please tell us more about how you want the government to get involved in assessing the mental health of over 325,000,000 Americans to assess whether they can be in close contact with a firearm.

Again do you REALLY want the US government to fulfill this role? I'm not talking about the existing laws which enable doctors to recommend that specific patients not be in contact with firearms. Besides, as is the reichwingtard logic, if someone wants to get a gun they'll get a gun. Yeah, no shit because the guns are there and there's nothing stopping them from being there or making it harder for anyone to get them.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[riggerrob 643]

Hey!
I resemble that remark!
I was the tall, skinny, bespectacled, borderline autistic boy who was bullied every day through elementary school and high school. The bullying started with verbal teasing in kindergarten, then progressed to shouted insults, but soon escalated to gang beatings. I lost count of the number of beatings before grade 3.
I only contemplated carrying a pistol to school a couple of times. My mind was clear on repeatedly warning a gang of bullies to “Leave me alone!”, before shooting the first bully who tried to punch me.
But I was bright enough to realize that shooting a bully would only increase my number of problems. Other school kids would tease me worse. Bullies would double-down beatings. Authority figures would continue to ignore bullies. Authority figures would blame me for exclusively for the problem. Parents would spank me. Police would interrogate me repeatedly. Courts would ....... before sending me to a prison full of bullies, etc.
After that I contemplated suicide, but never figured out how to kill myself without devestating my mother. Suicide is just anger turned inwards.
Much later in life, I quit a career rather than face escalating work-place bullying

[billvon 2,991]

Quote

Sadly, the current era - of 15 second news bites - is dumbing down the masses. Curious people really struggle to learn the whole truth. That is why I read 3 or more sources - about the same headline - before reaching my own opinion.
While living in Southern California, I often drove 90 minutes - to an obscure - magazine shop that sold: The New York Times, Paris Match, der Spiegle, Toronto Globe and Mail, Manchester Guardian, etc. because I knew that American media would only tell me one - narrowly focussed - facet of any story.

Yep. The good news today is that now you don't have to drive 90 minutes; you can get the Guardian, the BBC etc on-line. The Economist is another good non-US source. And while they certainly have their own biases, they are somewhat orthogonal to US biases - and thus tends to give a much clearer image of a given US situation.

[kallend 2,027]

nolhtairt

*********Yes, I noted the same when I Googled.

I see CNN briefly interrupted their royal wedding coverage to note the shooting, but were back to royal wedding coverage quite quickly.

You know why? A shotgun and handgun was used, not an AR-15. It doesn't fit their agenda.

The proposed AR-15 ban is all sorts of stupid.

The libtard media's infatuation with the AR-15 is retarded.

It has never been a gun issue. It's a mental health issue. There are already laws on the book. They just need to be better enforced. Even then, that won't stop every shooting. Changing the school configuration to a single point entry with working metal detectors will help. But it's not what the libtards want.

If it's not a gun issue why is the issue non- existent in other developed nations - those that have sensible gun laws?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Bob_Church 7]

riggerrob

Hey!
I resemble that remark!
I was the tall, skinny, bespectacled, borderline autistic boy who was bullied every day through elementary school and high school. The bullying started with verbal teasing in kindergarten, then progressed to shouted insults, but soon escalated to gang beatings. I lost count of the number of beatings before grade 3.
I only contemplated carrying a pistol to school a couple of times. My mind was clear on repeatedly warning a gang of bullies to “Leave me alone!”, before shooting the first bully who tried to punch me.
But I was bright enough to realize that shooting a bully would only increase my number of problems. Other school kids would tease me worse. Bullies would double-down beatings. Authority figures would continue to ignore bullies. Authority figures would blame me for exclusively for the problem. Parents would spank me. Police would interrogate me repeatedly. Courts would ....... before sending me to a prison full of bullies, etc.
After that I contemplated suicide, but never figured out how to kill myself without devestating my mother. Suicide is just anger turned inwards.
Much later in life, I quit a career rather than face escalating work-place bullying

But even if 500 of the bullied students in a high school deal with it, it only takes one who can't. Add to that the 24/7 aspect that things like Facebook have added and how long until that one kid snaps, gets a gun or a can of gasoline with a rag stuffed into the cap and goes out in a blaze of glory?

[Bob_Church 7]

"If it's not a gun issue why is the issue non- existent in other developed nations - those that have sensible gun laws? "

I think it's the combination of easy access to guns and the unbearable levels of emotional pain caused by bullying amplified many many times by social media.

So, eliminate one and things calm down. But which one?

[Bob_Church 7]

They'll take my social media away when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

[riggerrob 643]

Dear Bob Church,
Please do not misinterpret my experience as healthy survival. Bullies gouged deep emotional scares into my psyche, scars that will never heal! Bullies frequently drove me to tears. To this day, I cannot distinguish any emotional difference between lawyers and elementary school bullies. I remain deeply skeptical of authority figures.

Part of the problem with bullying is no clear definition of bullies.

Here is my definition of bullies:
Bullies tend to be low-achievers who attempt to elevate their own status by putting down others.
Put-downs include: name-calling, verbal insults, reminders of negative incidents, harassing phone calls, theft, physical violence, etc.
It is easy to dismiss a single bully incident or joke as normal adolescence behaviour or an off-colour joke. But the string of bullying eventually wears down victims. Even if they know the bully is teasing them about a fictional embarrassing moment, repeated teasing still erodes the victim’s confidence, self-esteem, academic performance, athletic performance, etc.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>It has never been a gun issue. It's a mental health issue.

"It's not a gun issue! It's a mental health issue! Or a door issue! Yeah, that's it, there are too many doors. Or it's that Jesus isn't present enough in society. It's video games! Or abortion. That's right, abortion causes shootings. All those families without fathers and whatnot. No, actually we don't have _enough_ guns. That's the problem. Not like what those libtards say."

I have a feeling that the gun nuts don't even know how foolish they look right now.

>There are already laws on the book. They just need to be better enforced.

So it's not a gun issue. But it is a gun issue and the gun control laws we have are plenty to deal with the issue.

The far right wing, more and more, is becoming the refuge of ignorance and unreason. Guns have nothing to do with gun deaths. Vaccines cause autism. The climate isn't changing! Evolution doesn't exist; the Earth was created 5000 years ago, and women came from a rib of Adam's. The liberals are making frogs gay! And pollution doesn't hurt anyone; it's the smell of progress.

There's a reason Trump loves the poorly educated - it's easier to get them to swallow such nonsense. (And it works well for the ignorant, as well - there's a place for them to go that will accept them without question.)

Calm down big boy! I knew the truth is hard to except but it’s right here in front of you and you just need to realize that. And then you go and do what many others here are calling troll posts. And that is put something out about trump voters and those who support trump just to piss people off. Shame on you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

riggerrob

*** ....... The far right wing, more and more, is becoming the refuge of ignorance and unreason. ........... There's a reason Trump loves the poorly educated - it's easier to get them to swallow such nonsense. ........

——————————————————————————————

This reminds me of a Saturday breakfast conversation with a elder from my church. We were discussing letters attributed to the Apostle Paul and concluded that he wrote those letters on two different levels, symultaneously.
The first level was for scholars, rulers and priests who had the time - and background knowledge - to debate the finer points of theology for weeks on end.
The second level was written for illiterate peasants - with busy lives - who only had time to absorb one simple answer.
Sadly, the current era - of 15 second news bites - is dumbing down the masses. Curious people really struggle to learn the whole truth. That is why I read 3 or more sources - about the same headline - before reaching my own opinion.
While living in Southern California, I often drove 90 minutes - to an obscure - magazine shop that sold: The New York Times, Paris Match, der Spiegle, Toronto Globe and Mail, Manchester Guardian, etc. because I knew that American media would only tell me one - narrowly focussed - facet of any story.

p.s. The church elder is a Unitarian while I was born into a long line of Universalists.

No! His post remind me of an explanation of bullies you just posted!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Phil1111 1,149]

Bob_Church

"If it's not a gun issue why is the issue non- existent in other developed nations - those that have sensible gun laws? "

I think it's the combination of easy access to guns and the unbearable levels of emotional pain caused by bullying amplified many many times by social media.

So, eliminate one and things calm down. But which one?

https://qz.com/365799/austria-has-the-most-bullying-in-the-western-world-sweden-has-the-least/

[Bob_Church 7]

riggerrob

Dear Bob Church,
Please do not misinterpret my experience as healthy survival. Bullies gouged deep emotional scares into my psyche, scars that will never heal! Bullies frequently drove me to tears. To this day, I cannot distinguish any emotional difference between lawyers and elementary school bullies. I remain deeply skeptical of authority figures.

Part of the problem with bullying is no clear definition of bullies.

Here is my definition of bullies:
Bullies tend to be low-achievers who attempt to elevate their own status by putting down others.
Put-downs include: name-calling, verbal insults, reminders of negative incidents, harassing phone calls, theft, physical violence, etc.
It is easy to dismiss a single bully incident or joke as normal adolescence behaviour or an off-colour joke. But the string of bullying eventually wears down victims. Even if they know the bully is teasing them about a fictional embarrassing moment, repeated teasing still erodes the victim’s confidence, self-esteem, academic performance, athletic performance, etc.

The years after high school were pretty good to me. I lucked into a very good job at Bell Telephone and I'd pull into a gas station in the evening and one of the high school bullies would ask if I wanted him to check the oil. The football heroes were best though. Their name got them a job selling insurance, but the fame faded, the gut sagged and hair thinned as they trudged around trying to sell enough policies to pay the rent and alimony.

[Bob_Church 7]

"The years after high school were pretty good to me. I lucked into a very good job at Bell Telephone and I'd pull into a gas station in the evening and one of the high school bullies would ask if I wanted him to check the oil. The football heroes were best though. Their name got them a job selling insurance, but the fame faded, the gut sagged and hair thinned as they trudged around trying to sell enough policies to pay the rent and alimony."

And yes, I'm talking about just a few years out of high school. Those jerkoffs went downhill fast.

[rushmc 23]

Bob_Church

"The years after high school were pretty good to me. I lucked into a very good job at Bell Telephone and I'd pull into a gas station in the evening and one of the high school bullies would ask if I wanted him to check the oil. The football heroes were best though. Their name got them a job selling insurance, but the fame faded, the gut sagged and hair thinned as they trudged around trying to sell enough policies to pay the rent and alimony."

And yes, I'm talking about just a few years out of high school. Those jerkoffs went downhill fast.

I for one am glad to hear your story got better. Bullies Are the scum of the Earth.

I dealt with him too but I was in such a small school I didn't have to deal with them at the level you explained earlier.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

I could share my story, but you did it so much better than I ever could and by your explanation seem to have it way worse than I lived with.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[yoink 321]

nolhtairt

The libtard media's infatuation with the AR-15 is retarded.

Just so you know, using terms like 'libtard' makes you sound like a 12 year old. If you have a point then make it like an adult.

I agree - focusing on a single model of gun is stupid. We'll have to go through this nonsense for every type of gun there is. It's simply politicians trying to score temporary points... However, it's better than doing nothing.

Quote

Changing the school configuration to a single point entry with working metal detectors will help. But it's not what the libtards want.

I honestly didn't think anyone would suck up that talking point from the Texan Lt. Gvnr. With even the most basic analysis it's a horrible idea.

Yes. A single point of entry is easier to secure. That's the only tick in the pro column...

The cons? It's still reliant on human observation so isn't that effective (look up studies about the rate of contraband that gets into prisons), and in the event of an emergency that requires an evacuation it's a guaranteed disaster.
Fire codes exist for a reason - you need to be able to get to an exit in a certain amount of time to avoid the minor issue of burning to death. And even if you do make it to an exit in time, if the occupation of the building is too high for the number of exits you run into the slight issue of people crushing each other to death as they panic to get out (ref. Hillsborough).
Let's not even talk about the potential for the carnage if an active shooter DOES make it into a school and there's only one exit... Fish in a barrel, anyone?

I could go on for hours about why this is a retarded idea.
Prisons are designed in the way they are for particular reasons; to secure the area inside them. Schools SHOULD be designed to maximize the potential for kids to be educated and socialized - the two don't overlap well.
And I'm talking as someone who has worked on the design of both, multiple times.

There are design considerations when building a school that take into account the normal hazards of growing up (re: stuff like Bob_Church's bullying concerns) and there are a number of initiatives that address these (Safety by Design etc), but being shot at school shouldn't be a concern for a child.

What is an OK constraint for an adult isn't OK for children. It's another reason rushmc's 'more security' argument is wrong - morally and physically.

[Phil1111 1,149]

Excellent post.

Santa Fe High School had armed cops and active shooter drills. Yet 10 people died
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/us/santa-fe-high-school-preparations-trnd/index.html

The NRA, trump and republicans have come up with new lists of the causes:
Doors, backpacks and Ritalin: what Republicans have blamed school shootings on
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/21/school-shootings-republicans-nra-blame-gun-violence

You should start some new cognitive reflections on the new causes of US gun violence because FOX, trump, Marc, etc. Will get their new talking points soon.

[nolhtairt 0]

Bob_Church

"The years after high school were pretty good to me. I lucked into a very good job at Bell Telephone and I'd pull into a gas station in the evening and one of the high school bullies would ask if I wanted him to check the oil. The football heroes were best though. Their name got them a job selling insurance, but the fame faded, the gut sagged and hair thinned as they trudged around trying to sell enough policies to pay the rent and alimony."

And yes, I'm talking about just a few years out of high school. Those jerkoffs went downhill fast.

Best revenge there is. You don't have to do anything but be the best you can be and have success and a better life than they end up with. Fuck em.

[DJL 235]

Arming teachers = more bullshit. Let's get this straight, there were four cops as in fully, recently and regularly trained individuals for this exact scenario who were only able to contain the movements of one person with a shotgun and a .38 revolver and one of them ended up in critical condition after 10 people were killed and 10 others wounded.

Now, we can all come up with allegorical situations in which someone sneaks up behind the shooter and takes them out but really, the only thing we're doing is throwing a handful of untrained and untested individuals into the mix. This example was the best possible example of an armed response. There were two cops on site, they reacted according to their training to reach the scene and were joined soon after by two more. There's no way, with the way that schools are arranged, to keep that potential initial death toll under the quantity of kids in one classroom, which is anywhere between 15 and 30.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44187718

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[riggerrob 643]

........ what if he's one of the growing number who kills himself because of the abuse? Or cuts or huffs or starves or any of the other ways a kid deals with more than he can handle.......... The worry isn't that he kill people ...... I honestly don't know how more of them haven't snapped. .......
Is there any way to help them?
——————————————————————————————

Violence is depression turned outwards, while suicide is depression turned inwards.
Mass shootings are often suicides that drag in a dozen innocent victims.
Many mass shooters save their last bullet for themselves and commit suicide before police arrive. Others try to commit “suicide by police.” Others are disappointed when we’ll-disciplined police arrest them instead. “Why didn’t you kill me?”

Radical Islam understands these depressed teenagers too well and are skilled at turning their depression against a visible enemy: Jews, Christians, communists, another Muslim sect, etc.

[billvon 2,991]

>I honestly didn't think anyone would suck up that talking point from the Texan Lt. Gvnr.
>With even the most basic analysis it's a horrible idea.

Yep. It's hard to believe that anyone thinks having a single exit from a school makes it safer. But then again, there are people who believe that abortions cause school shootings.

[nolhtairt 0]

billvon

>I honestly didn't think anyone would suck up that talking point from the Texan Lt. Gvnr.
>With even the most basic analysis it's a horrible idea.

Yep. It's hard to believe that anyone thinks having a single exit from a school makes it safer. But then again, there are people who believe that abortions cause school shootings.

I didn't say single exit. I said single entry. You've got to have enough exit doors according to building code. What the fuck, do you think I'm stupid? The emergency exit doors are locked on the outside, derrr.