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[jakee 1,500]

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I suppose there is nothing sad if the questions are sincere, but in most instances it's just contemptuous trolling - but to be clear - I wouldn't put you in that lot, which is why I tried to give at least a minimal effort in my reply to you...

And yet, you still haven't seriously addressed the question.....

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Right, and that perfection included a choice and the knowledge of good and evil,

Wait, I thought it didn't include the knowledge of good and evil, hence the whole serpent/apple/original sin thing...

Are you saying you don't believe in original sin because knowledge of evil was god's plan all along?

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and that has negatively affected us exponentially throughout our history.

So, as human beings, we're all many times worse than we were 500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or 2000 years ago?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 2,030]

jakee

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and that has negatively affected us exponentially throughout our history.

So, as human beings, we're all many times worse than we were 500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or 2000 years ago?

Sure. You and I are obviously far far more evil than those fine Christians who hanged old women at Salem, and who managed the Spanish Inquisition.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 221]

kallend

***

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and that has negatively affected us exponentially throughout our history.

So, as human beings, we're all many times worse than we were 500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or 2000 years ago?

Sure. You and I are obviously far far more evil than those fine Christians who hanged old women at Salem, and who managed the Spanish Inquisition.

Those things happened because of modern interpretation.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,500]

Hey Coreece, that was a zinger!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

turtlespeed

Produce the original and I will.

We tend to think that the battle is to surrender our external lives. That is only a part of it. The real battle is to surrender our will. Ego is the most powerful force.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[masterblaster72 0]

RonD1120

***

Produce the original and I will.

We tend to think that the battle is to surrender our external lives. That is only a part of it. The real battle is to surrender our will. Ego is the most powerful force.

Posting from a bunker?

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

******

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The Jews back in biblical times along with several others in this thread had similar problems...kinda sad much hasn't changed. They'd ask questions like, what about this, what about that...they'd try to test Christ with questions about divorce, or try to trap him with questions about God vs Caesar, or whatever...nothing new, you know.

Why is it "kinda sad" to ask questions? Is it wrong to seek clarification when different "rules" require mutually incompatible responses? When correctly following one edict puts you in violation of a different one?

I suppose there is nothing sad if the questions are sincere, but in most instances it's just contemptuous trolling - but to be clear - I wouldn't put you in that lot, which is why I tried to give at least a minimal effort in my reply to you...

GeorgiaDon

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So ya...maybe they didn't physically commit adultery, but maybe they wanted to...maybe they just imagined it...but that's the problem...but that's the problem - We are fundamentally flawed -

And yet, according to your system of belief God created humans "in His image".

Right, and that perfection included a choice and the knowledge of good and evil, but unlike God, we find pleasure in certain types of evil - and that has negatively affected us exponentially throughout our history.



So, being unlike God, we really aren't in his image at all.

Well, it says God is Spirit, yet we are flesh and blood - neither are we omniscient/omnipresent...so if "in His image" means "exact replica," then no.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

jakee

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Right, and that perfection included a choice and the knowledge of good and evil,

Wait, I thought it didn't include the knowledge of good and evil, hence the whole serpent/apple/original sin thing...

Are you saying you don't believe in original sin because knowledge of evil was god's plan all along?

Surely an omniscient God would've known that they'd eventually rebel and choose knowledge over Him, right?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

***

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and that has negatively affected us exponentially throughout our history.

So, as human beings, we're all many times worse than we were 500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or 2000 years ago?

Sure. You and I are obviously far far more evil than those fine Christians who hanged old women at Salem, and who managed the Spanish Inquisition.

I didn't say we were far more evil, I said it negatively affects us exponentially - like a domino effect. In the past the effects of sin were more localized - but today - a person's greed in New York can negatively affect the entire global economy and then even more evil is spawned from that, and so on and so forth...

Jeremiah 17:9
"The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

******

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and that has negatively affected us exponentially throughout our history.

So, as human beings, we're all many times worse than we were 500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or 2000 years ago?

Sure. You and I are obviously far far more evil than those fine Christians who hanged old women at Salem, and who managed the Spanish Inquisition.

Those things happened because of modern interpretation.

Today we have a better understanding of various cultures and language that can provide more insight into scripture...

...in most cases, that is generally a good thing.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

jakee

Hey Coreece, that was a zinger!

Ya, not too bad...I'd give it a 7.0

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jakee 1,500]

Coreeece

***

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Right, and that perfection included a choice and the knowledge of good and evil,

Wait, I thought it didn't include the knowledge of good and evil, hence the whole serpent/apple/original sin thing...

Are you saying you don't believe in original sin because knowledge of evil was god's plan all along?

Surely an omniscient God would've known that they'd eventually rebel and choose knowledge over Him, right?

Which would make him a bit of a cunt for setting the trap, eh?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,500]

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I didn't say we were far more evil, I said it negatively affects us exponentially - like a domino effect. In the past the effects of sin were more localized - but today - a person's greed in New York can negatively affect the entire global economy and then even more evil is spawned from that, and so on and so forth...

But then if the effect of good things is also exponentially greater...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

jakee

******

Quote

Right, and that perfection included a choice and the knowledge of good and evil,

Wait, I thought it didn't include the knowledge of good and evil, hence the whole serpent/apple/original sin thing...

Are you saying you don't believe in original sin because knowledge of evil was god's plan all along?

Surely an omniscient God would've known that they'd eventually rebel and choose knowledge over Him, right?

Which would make him a bit of a cunt for setting the trap, eh?

Douglas Adams summed it up nicely in "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe":

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Your God person puts an apple tree in the middle of a garden and says, do what you like, guys, oh, but don't eat the apple. Surprise surprise, they eat it and he leaps out from behind a bush shouting "Gotcha". It wouldn't have made any difference if they hadn't eaten it.'
'Why not?'
'Because if you're dealing with somebody who has the sort of mentality which likes leaving hats on the pavement with bricks under them you know perfectly well they won't give up. They'll get you in the end.”

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/430537-your-god-person-puts-an-apple-tree-in-the-middle

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Coreeece 2]

wolfriverjoe

*********

Quote

Right, and that perfection included a choice and the knowledge of good and evil,

Wait, I thought it didn't include the knowledge of good and evil, hence the whole serpent/apple/original sin thing...

Are you saying you don't believe in original sin because knowledge of evil was god's plan all along?

Surely an omniscient God would've known that they'd eventually rebel and choose knowledge over Him, right?

Which would make him a bit of a cunt for setting the trap, eh?

Douglas Adams summed it up nicely in "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe":

Quote

Your God person puts an apple tree in the middle of a garden and says, do what you like, guys, oh, but don't eat the apple. Surprise surprise, they eat it and he leaps out from behind a bush shouting "Gotcha". It wouldn't have made any difference if they hadn't eaten it.'
'Why not?'
'Because if you're dealing with somebody who has the sort of mentality which likes leaving hats on the pavement with bricks under them you know perfectly well they won't give up. They'll get you in the end.”

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/430537-your-god-person-puts-an-apple-tree-in-the-middle

Well, with that type of mentality primarily coming from those who reject God, it's doubtful that it would've even mattered how He chose to implement the freedom of choice...they'd always think that he was just "a cunt out to get you."

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[kallend 2,030]

If the cops did it the case would be thrown out on account of entrapment.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 806]

A lack of belief is not rejection.

[turtlespeed 221]

normiss

A lack of belief is not rejection.

Funnily enough, it was the church's inner workings that proved to me what a farce the whole religion thing is.

It is disgusting how people are taken advantage of.

But, hey, it's a great business plan.
If you don't mind guilting people into buying into your onside scheme.

I think the only thing the church can do to improve itself is to hire Madoff.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 806]

If it requires the threat of eternal damnation in a torturous lake of fire to make you a good person........

[turtlespeed 221]

normiss

If it requires the threat of eternal damnation in a torturous lake of fire to make you a good person........

That is NOT the modern interpretation.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Coreeece

Well, with that type of mentality primarily coming from those who reject God, it's doubtful that it would've even mattered how He chose to implement the freedom of choice...they'd always think that he was just "a cunt out to get you."

Well, the level of teasing and tempting in that so-called "freedom of choice" is enough that, as Professor Kallend pointed out, if done by modern day cops, would easily be tossed out as entrapment.

And, of course, that isn't the freedom of choice that God implemented, is it? Just the way the bronze age myths, legends and folk tales has it told.

I'm far, far more rejecting the creation myth as told in the Bible than rejecting God.

As I progressed through this life and my spirituality and beliefs changed and evolved, I realized that modern religion is entirely about power and control. It may (or may not) have had noble beginnings, but there is very little that is noble about modern organized religion (all faiths, not just Christianity).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rehmwa 2]

turtlespeed

But, hey, it's a great business plan.
If you don't mind guilting people into buying into your onside scheme.

I think the only thing the church can do to improve itself is to hire Madoff.

or Al Gore

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

wolfriverjoe

As I progressed through this life and my spirituality and beliefs changed and evolved, I realized that modern religion is entirely about power and control. It may (or may not) have had noble beginnings, but there is very little that is noble about modern organized religion (all faiths, not just Christianity).

As overall education increases, more and more people are coming to this realization.


faith does NOT equal 'organized religion'
it doesn't even equal religion

I'm not faithful, but I have no issues with those that sincerely are (if it's internal to them and they aren't pushy - some of them I even find it an admirable part of their character). I do have a real problem with zealots and those that are mesmerized by the organized power structures.

this goes for more than just religion too

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

If the cops did it the case would be thrown out on account of entrapment.

That gives me an idea for a spin-off of the Bait Car TV series, but in this version the cops would actually disclose that certain vehicles are actually bait cars. The ignitions will be turned on and the vehicles will be marked with "Bait Car" decals. The cops would then declare that anyone who steals these cars, will surely be put in jail.

The first episode transcript:

The Tempter: Hey man, there goes one of them bait cars, let's steal it.

The "entrapped": If we steal it we shall surely go to jail.

The Tempter: You will not surely go to jail, they're just saying that so you don't steal it...it's like a deterrent - nobody's even watching.

The "entrapped": I don't know man, it even has one of them bait-car decals right on it...

The Tempter: Oh c'mon man, people just put them on there for insurance discounts....Just take it man, you'll be like God.

The "entrapped": (steals car)

The "entrapped" goes to jail and blames the tempter. The tempter blames the cops and calls them "a bunch of cunts out to get people."

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

***A lack of belief is not rejection.

Funnily enough, it was the church's inner workings that proved to me what a farce the whole religion thing is.

It is disgusting how people are taken advantage of.

That's certainly a legitimate concern...I can relate.

It's sad how some of these people can not only steal your money, but also your faith.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour