If this is your recovery, you can keep it

[rushmc 23]

Fewer people owning homes
Wages flat or dropping
Work hours reduced or jobs eliminated
The rich poor spread is getting bigger at a faster rate than has been seen in a long long time
Now add this

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-surging-ranks-of-americas-ultrapoor/

Solution?

bigger gov programs I suppose......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,074]

>Solution?

No easy ones. Some partial ones:

Easier path to citizenship for illegal immigrants (proven to increase their income)
Better support for education (also proven to increase lifetime income)

[Amazon 7]

rushmc

Fewer people owning homes
Wages flat or dropping
Work hours reduced or jobs eliminated
The rich poor spread is getting bigger at a faster rate than has been seen in a long long time
Now add this

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-surging-ranks-of-americas-ultrapoor/

Solution?

bigger gov programs I suppose......

GOP Solution.... hand EVERY THING to the MAKERS and PRAY they create minimum wage jobs for all those peon TAKERS in some strange Ayn Rand dystopian wet dream.

[DougH 270]

Amazon

GOP Solution.... hand EVERY THING to the MAKERS and PRAY they create minimum wage jobs for all those peon TAKERS in some strange Ayn Rand dystopian wet dream.

How has the Democrat solution been working out in the poor inner cities where they have a stranglehold on state and local government?

Sure they have voters, anything else to show for it?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Anvilbrother 0]

Wasn't that obamas trillion(s) dollar bailout plan, to throw money at people? I believe that ended up costing each household about $24,000. For the jobs created it cost the United states $270,000 per job. Who's giving away money again? How did that solar company bail out work? Ooh that's right they are currently being investigated for falsifying doccuments to obtain the bailout.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Amazon 7]

DougH

***

GOP Solution.... hand EVERY THING to the MAKERS and PRAY they create minimum wage jobs for all those peon TAKERS in some strange Ayn Rand dystopian wet dream.

How has the Democrat solution been working out in the poor inner cities where they have a stranglehold on state and local government?

Sure they have voters, anything else to show for it?

I seem to remember MAKERS like Rmoney who destroyed companies where those people had good jobs.. then stole their pensions..... and sent any remaining production overseas... anything to get rich quick... sorry tht is not making anything.. especially when the money is shipped offshore to the Caymans

I guess that is the IDEAL GOP definition of Patriotic American..

But it is not mine

[Amazon 7]

Anvilbrother

Wasn't that obamas trillion(s) dollar bailout plan, to throw money at people? I believe that ended up costing each household about $24,000. For the jobs created it cost the United states $270,000 per job. Who's giving away money again? How did that solar company bail out work? Ooh that's right they are currently being investigated for falsifying doccuments to obtain the bailout.

Those might be nice sound bite news on FAUX.... but I seem to remember most of that was nixed by your team.... because it was better to keep people hurting so they would vote for your team... with its failed policies that brought us the debt we have today....

Tax cuts that last well into the next administration have actual financial realities... you should find out what those really are.

[yoink 321]

Amazon

Those might be nice sound bite news on FAUX....

I get to this sentence and then immediately switch off - Anything relevant you might have to say afterward is lost.

I do the same when brenthutch or rushmc act like children too.

I'd suggest less vitriol and hyperbole in your posts - unless you're just deliberately trolling.

[billvon 3,074]

>Wasn't that obamas trillion(s) dollar bailout plan, to throw money at people?

The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 allocated $700 billion for bailouts and direct capital injections. It was signed into law by GWB.

(right wingers will now scramble to defend this forward-thinking piece of legislation that saved America)

[Amazon 7]

yoink

***
Those might be nice sound bite news on FAUX....

I get to this sentence and then immediately switch off - Anything relevant you might have to say afterward is lost.

I do the same when brenthutch or rushmc act like children too.

I'd suggest less vitriol and hyperbole in your posts - unless you're just deliberately trolling.

Based on what you usually post... I am betting you are not a consumer of the daily drivel being spoon fed to the no information voters that believe all they see from Rupert Murdoch.

And no... that is not trolling it is an observation of the true believers who get all the truthiness they need daily from the rather ill named moniker of Fair and Balanced reporting that is neither.

[yoink 321]

Amazon

******
Those might be nice sound bite news on FAUX....

I get to this sentence and then immediately switch off - Anything relevant you might have to say afterward is lost.

I do the same when brenthutch or rushmc act like children too.

I'd suggest less vitriol and hyperbole in your posts - unless you're just deliberately trolling.

Based on what you usually post... I am betting you are not a consumer of the daily drivel being spoon fed to the no information voters that believe all they see from Rupert Murdoch.



I actually read a lot of news from a lot of sources, but don't watch TV. - I do think there are more effective ways of communicating the limitations of biased mass-media than resorting to name calling.

I look at it this way - I'm NEVER going to win an argument with the fundamentalist / super-whatever. But if I can communicate effectively, maybe I'll start some of the people who may read but don't post, thinking - just a little.


I think you and I are on the same page and probably share similar opinions on a lot of things, but if you're losing me do you really think it'll help with people who have views more divergent than ours?

- just some feedback.

For what it's worth - if people here haven't discovered RSS readers, it's an immediately enlightening way of seeing the bias in news stories. You can set it up to get reports of specific news stories from a multitude of news sources... Really interesting stuff. Usually moreso than the stories themselves.

Feedly is one of the more popular ones: http://feedly.com

[brenthutch 444]

billvon

>Solution?

No easy ones. Some partial ones:

Easier path to citizenship for illegal immigrants (proven to increase their income)
Better support for education (also proven to increase lifetime income)

Illegal immigration suppresses wages, especially low wages, while higher minimum wages cost jobs outright. The policies promulgated by the left are at odds with basic supply and demand economics. The results are no surprise.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

The policies promulgated by the left are at odds with basic supply and demand economics.

Indeed. If you limit the supply of people who have little choice but to acceot extremely low wages, wages will go up. This is what Bill said.

Your comment to that doesn't dispute that. Illegal immigration does suppress wages. Providing a clear and easier path to legal immigration will reduce the amount of illegal immigrants and put less downward pressure on wages.

Not sure you realized you were pretty much agreeing with Bill.

[brenthutch 444]

SkyDekker

Quote

The policies promulgated by the left are at odds with basic supply and demand economics.

Indeed. If you limit the supply of people who have little choice but to acceot extremely low wages, wages will go up. This is what Bill said.

Your comment to that doesn't dispute that. Illegal immigration does suppress wages. Providing a clear and easier path to legal immigration will reduce the amount of illegal immigrants and put less downward pressure on wages.

Not sure you realized you were pretty much agreeing with Bill.

If one increases the supply of labor, legal and otherwise, downward pressure is put on wages.

[DanG 1]

All labor is not equal. If labor has access to legal recourse when they get screwed, you can't pay them pennnies on the dollar. Wages will go up, since many illegals work for less than minimum wage.

- Dan G

[winsor 236]

billvon

>Wasn't that obamas trillion(s) dollar bailout plan, to throw money at people?

The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 allocated $700 billion for bailouts and direct capital injections. It was signed into law by GWB.

(right wingers will now scramble to defend this forward-thinking piece of legislation that saved America)

So there are morons on both sides of the aisle. Your point?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

If one increases the supply of labor, legal and otherwise, downward pressure is put on wages.

No, simply not true.

As has already been posted, all labour is not equal.

[brenthutch 444]

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it not true.

Who ever said "all labor is equal"? H1B visas put downward pressure on computer programmers in the same way low skill immigrants put downward pressure on construction laborers.

[billvon 3,074]

>Illegal immigration suppresses wages, especially low wages

Agreed. So make it legal. Problem solved. Wages rise; the gap between the rich and the poorest 10% declines. Everyone wins.

[turtlespeed 226]

billvon

>Illegal immigration suppresses wages, especially low wages

Agreed. So make it legal. Problem solved. Wages rise; the gap between the rich and the poorest 10% declines. Everyone wins.

Immigration IS legal.
There is a process in place to lawfully enter this country.

Follow the law.

Just as in the case of firearms and the second amendment. Enforce the laws we already have in place.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,074]

>Immigration IS legal.

There are 11 million illegal immigrants in the US. A big chunk of those very poor people the original post referred to are illegal immigrants, because being an illegal immigrant means you make far less money on average.

If you want to solve the problem of the huge disparity between rich and poor, providing all those illegal immigrants with a path to legal citizenship will help that happen.

>There is a process in place to lawfully enter this country.

Not for 99.9% of the people trying to come here - or the people living here illegally now.

[billvon 3,074]

> H1B visas put downward pressure on computer programmers in the same way
>low skill immigrants put downward pressure on construction laborers.

Right. Rather than bring jobs here via H1B's, much better to send those jobs to India and China.

[turtlespeed 226]

billvon

>Immigration IS legal.

There are 11 million illegal immigrants in the US. A big chunk of those very poor people the original post referred to are illegal immigrants, because being an illegal immigrant means you make far less money on average.

If you want to solve the problem of the huge disparity between rich and poor, providing all those illegal immigrants with a path to legal citizenship will help that happen.

>There is a process in place to lawfully enter this country.

Not for 99.9% of the people trying to come here - or the people living here illegally now.

Yes there is.
Apply, do your homework, and follow the law.

I never said it was a piece of cake, but it IS legal, and it is possible.

If the immigration laws were followed and enforced, 11 million illegals would not be here to be poor, and thus the gap would be less.

So, following the existing laws is another way to eliminate a large portion of that gap you speak of.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,074]

>I never said it was a piece of cake, but it IS legal, and it is possible.

Not for 99.9% of immigrants. That's why we have an illegal immigration problem - because it is effectively impossible for an average farm worker to come here legally and work.

>If the immigration laws were followed and enforced, 11 million illegals would
>not be here to be poor, and thus the gap would be less.

Ah. "Eliminate the poor." I guess that's one solution. Not as effective, though, as just taxing the rich until they aren't so rich; that's a much more effective solution if social engineering is your thing.

Like I said in the second post of this thread - if you want to solve the problem of the wide gap between rich and poor, providing a legal path for citizenship is one way to do it. If you don't want to solve that problem, that's fine too.

(Or do what the OP does - just oppose all such solutions and then blame Obama for it.)

[normiss 855]

Maybe he wants us to emulate Greece here too.