Another mass shooting...

[kallend 2,106]

jbscout2002

Simply untrue. Many states do not require drivers Ed at all. It wasn't even offered in my school.

Hmmm. You conveniently forgot that I clearly wrote "IN MOST STATES". Which is true.

www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/Traffic%20Injury%20Control/Articles/Associated%20Files/4446ADTSEA.pdf

The best you can do is not very good.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,106]

jbscout2002

How is there a charity taking donations for planned parenthood. Aren't those people Dr.s and researchers who makes a bunch of money?

S.

You really are factually challenged.

www.give.org/charity-reviews/national/health/planned-parenthood-federation-of-america-in-new-york-ny-626

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,106]

jbscout2002

Even tho the numbers are going to be thrown off (in your favor) because a bunch of gang bangles clebrated the 4th of July by mowing each other down, which is probably why you would offer this, I'd take it anyways.

The money goes to a good cause. We need to establish parameters tho.

Like using the FBI UCR to compare both years for example. But since CCW also deters not just other gun crime, but all violent crime, it has to be based off of overall violent crime rate.

You were quoting firearm murder rates. Those were the numbers quoted and over which you quibbled. Getting cold feet now?

We have to wait nearly a year for the FBI data to be released. We only just got the 2014 data. I'm sure the news media will report it by early January.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[piisfish 140]

jbscout2002

So is it false that you get a gun permit and then are allowed to have up to 3 personal firearms per person?

you might find interesting reply here https://www.ch.ch/en/acquiring-firearm/

jbscout2002

Then in addition to this, every male from the age of 17-35 is in a conscritp Army functioning kind of like a National Guard and that each member keeps their service weapon at their house?

This is what we call our Army. The actual age is more 20-32. Every male swiss Citizen "should" serve, but the actual numbers show that this is not true anymore. Until the 90's we had a 800'000 men army. Now it is around 200'000. Out of which around 1'000 women. http://www.vtg.admin.ch/internet/vtg/fr/home/dokumentation/publik_zeitrschr/publikationen.parsys.76089.downloadList.25051.DownloadFile.tmp/kurzfassungarma2014f.pdf. Approximately 20% of these people do not keep their weapons at home, mostly for safety or convenience reasons. Mainly in towns. They might have kids at home, and don't want to mix kids and guns, they don't have space to keep the weapons safe enough against theft or misuse. So they have the possibility to leave their military gear at the arsenal, and pick it up when they are on military duty, or for their yearly mandatory shooting session (kind of currency requirement)

Quote

Do you have gun clubs that hold marksmanship classes and sponsor sharpshooting competitions?

yes. For us shooting is a sport. Not a " I need to protect myself and my family at all cost" kind of thing. Every 4 years there is even a "National Shooting Competition" which spreads over a month, involving 40'000 shooters from across the country, and in lots of different categories.

Quote

Is this even in the ball park? I was all ready to narrow my collection down to 3 and start looking at property there

good luck with that.
You can also have a read (and a Google translate) at that https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classified-compilation/19983208/index.html

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[kallend 2,106]

piisfish

***So is it false that you get a gun permit and then are allowed to have up to 3 personal firearms per person?

you might find interesting reply here https://www.ch.ch/en/acquiring-firearm/



OMG!

You're saying that Switzerland, poster child for the US gun lobby, actually requires LICENSES for guns?

And to transfer a gun you need a written contract with details of the person transferring and the person acquiring the weapon and the weapon itself?

And to get the license you have to send a written application along with a criminal record certificate and a copy of your passport or ID card to the cantonal weapons office?

And you must be at least 18 years old,
you must not be subject to a deputyship or a supervision order,
you must not give any cause to assume that you could harm yourself or anyone else with the weapon,
you must not have a criminal record for violent or dangerous offences or repeated felonies or misdemeanours.

And they will check up on all this before they let you have the permit?

Oh the humanity!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[piisfish 140]

and if you want to have fun translating :
regarding "carrying weapons"

Quote

La personne souhaitant porter son arme dans des lieux accessibles au public (par ex. dans la rue) doit posséder un permis de port d'armes. Le transport d'une arme par exemple pour participer à une manifestation de tir n'est pas considéré comme un port d'armes.

En plus de remplir les conditions requises pour l'acquisition d'une arme, la personne souhaitant obtenir un permis de port d'armes doit établir de façon plausible qu’elle a besoin d’une arme pour se protéger ou pour protéger des tiers ou des choses contre un danger tangible. Elle doit en outre passer un examen attestant qu'elle est capable de manier une arme et qu'elle connaît les dispositions légales en matière d'utilisation d'armes.

from https://www.fedpol.admin.ch/fedpol/fr/home/sicherheit/waffen/faq.html

we make a big differnce between "transporting a weapon" and "carrying a weapon".
Gun holder goes hunting or shooting at the range : transport, no question asked.
Gun holder carries weapon for self defense/protection : needs to pass an exam etc etc etc...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Amazon 7]

kallend

******So is it false that you get a gun permit and then are allowed to have up to 3 personal firearms per person?

you might find interesting reply here https://www.ch.ch/en/acquiring-firearm/



OMG!

You're saying that Switzerland, poster child for the US gun lobby, actually requires LICENSES for guns?

And to transfer a gun you need a written contract with details of the person transferring and the person acquiring the weapon and the weapon itself?

And to get the license you have to send a written application along with a criminal record certificate and a copy of your passport or ID card to the cantonal weapons office?

And you must be at least 18 years old,
you must not be subject to a deputyship or a supervision order,
you must not give any cause to assume that you could harm yourself or anyone else with the weapon,
you must not have a criminal record for violent or dangerous offences or repeated felonies or misdemeanours.

And they will check up on all this before they let you have the permit?

Oh the humanity!

I am thinking that our one issue voters here who believe Switzerland is a great place to go would never be allowed to immigrate there in the first place.
I also think their heads would explode having to deal with all those European Conservatives.

[piisfish 140]

Amazon

I am thinking that our one issue voters here who believe Switzerland is a great place to go would never be allowed to immigrate there in the first place.
I also think their heads would explode having to deal with all those European Conservatives.

I am thinking some people would have trouble finding how communist our far right political parties are

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Amazon 7]

piisfish

***I am thinking that our one issue voters here who believe Switzerland is a great place to go would never be allowed to immigrate there in the first place.
I also think their heads would explode having to deal with all those European Conservatives.

I am thinking some people would have trouble finding how communist our far right political parties are

They hear.. "Conservative" and get little stiffies.... it is the lack of critical thinking skills

[jbscout2002 1]

kallend

***How is there a charity taking donations for planned parenthood. Aren't those people Dr.s and researchers who makes a bunch of money?

S.

You really are factually challenged.

www.give.org/charity-reviews/national/health/planned-parenthood-federation-of-america-in-new-york-ny-626

So you didn't answer my question. As per your M.O. you cherry picked pieces of my question to quote and then respond with your typical douch baggery.

[jbscout2002 1]

piisfish

***So is it false that you get a gun permit and then are allowed to have up to 3 personal firearms per person?

you might find interesting reply here https://www.ch.ch/en/acquiring-firearm/

jbscout2002

Then in addition to this, every male from the age of 17-35 is in a conscritp Army functioning kind of like a National Guard and that each member keeps their service weapon at their house?

This is what we call our Army. The actual age is more 20-32. Every male swiss Citizen "should" serve, but the actual numbers show that this is not true anymore. Until the 90's we had a 800'000 men army. Now it is around 200'000. Out of which around 1'000 women. http://www.vtg.admin.ch/internet/vtg/fr/home/dokumentation/publik_zeitrschr/publikationen.parsys.76089.downloadList.25051.DownloadFile.tmp/kurzfassungarma2014f.pdf. Approximately 20% of these people do not keep their weapons at home, mostly for safety or convenience reasons. Mainly in towns. They might have kids at home, and don't want to mix kids and guns, they don't have space to keep the weapons safe enough against theft or misuse. So they have the possibility to leave their military gear at the arsenal, and pick it up when they are on military duty, or for their yearly mandatory shooting session (kind of currency requirement)

Quote

Do you have gun clubs that hold marksmanship classes and sponsor sharpshooting competitions?

yes. For us shooting is a sport. Not a " I need to protect myself and my family at all cost" kind of thing. Every 4 years there is even a "National Shooting Competition" which spreads over a month, involving 40'000 shooters from across the country, and in lots of different categories.

Quote

Is this even in the ball park? I was all ready to narrow my collection down to 3 and start looking at property there

good luck with that.
You can also have a read (and a Google translate) at that https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classified-compilation/19983208/index.html

A more direct answer is, yes, you are in the ball park. The age isn't 17-35, but is 20-32, and not "everyone" keeps their service weapon at home. About 20% choose not to for personal reasons. And yes to all the parts about gun clubs and shooting events.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

A more direct answer is, yes, you are in the ball park. The age isn't 17-35, but is 20-32, and not "everyone" keeps their service weapon at home. About 20% choose not to for personal reasons. And yes to all the parts about gun clubs and shooting events.

Yes, it is very similar to the US. You would not at all be surprised when you actually went to visit the country and spent some time there.

[jbscout2002 1]

kallend

******So is it false that you get a gun permit and then are allowed to have up to 3 personal firearms per person?

you might find interesting reply here https://www.ch.ch/en/acquiring-firearm/



OMG!

You're saying that Switzerland, poster child for the US gun lobby, actually requires LICENSES for guns?

And to transfer a gun you need a written contract with details of the person transferring and the person acquiring the weapon and the weapon itself?

And to get the license you have to send a written application along with a criminal record certificate and a copy of your passport or ID card to the cantonal weapons office?

And you must be at least 18 years old,
you must not be subject to a deputyship or a supervision order,
you must not give any cause to assume that you could harm yourself or anyone else with the weapon,
you must not have a criminal record for violent or dangerous offences or repeated felonies or misdemeanours.

And they will check up on all this before they let you have the permit?

Oh the humanity!

Really? Most of this is already the case in the U.S.

Must be 18
Not subject to deputy ship or supervision order
Not give cause to assume self harm or harm of others
Not have record for felonies or domestic misdemeanors

All this is checked before each gun sale.

And look back through some of these post. Where you do nothing but complain of perceived problems, many of which are invented or imagined by you, I have attempted to offer solutions.

You will see I fully support an application process to obtain a gun license. What do you think is required for a CCW?

Who is factually challenged here?

I think you are actually retarded. I give up. I tap out. You are the one child left behind.

[jbscout2002 1]

piisfish

and if you want to have fun translating :
regarding "carrying weapons"

Quote

La personne souhaitant porter son arme dans des lieux accessibles au public (par ex. dans la rue) doit posséder un permis de port d'armes. Le transport d'une arme par exemple pour participer à une manifestation de tir n'est pas considéré comme un port d'armes.

En plus de remplir les conditions requises pour l'acquisition d'une arme, la personne souhaitant obtenir un permis de port d'armes doit établir de façon plausible qu’elle a besoin d’une arme pour se protéger ou pour protéger des tiers ou des choses contre un danger tangible. Elle doit en outre passer un examen attestant qu'elle est capable de manier une arme et qu'elle connaît les dispositions légales en matière d'utilisation d'armes.

from https://www.fedpol.admin.ch/fedpol/fr/home/sicherheit/waffen/faq.html

we make a big differnce between "transporting a weapon" and "carrying a weapon".
Gun holder goes hunting or shooting at the range : transport, no question asked.
Gun holder carries weapon for self defense/protection : needs to pass an exam etc etc etc...

This is exactly the same in the U.S.

To purchase, you do an application, background check, and show photo ID. Then you can "transport" that gun to the range for target practice, or to the woods to go hunting. State laws vary, but generally, it must be unloaded, in plain view, and the ammo stored separately, such as gun in the car, ammo in trunk.

A CCW requires state and federal background checks, passport photo, finger printing, a CCW class, then some states have additional requirements such as character references and providing a written statement to your local head of law enforcement which may be either the Sheriff or Chief of Police depending on where you live, that explains why you are requesting the CCW.

[rushmc 23]

jbscout2002

*********So is it false that you get a gun permit and then are allowed to have up to 3 personal firearms per person?

you might find interesting reply here https://www.ch.ch/en/acquiring-firearm/



OMG!

You're saying that Switzerland, poster child for the US gun lobby, actually requires LICENSES for guns?

And to transfer a gun you need a written contract with details of the person transferring and the person acquiring the weapon and the weapon itself?

And to get the license you have to send a written application along with a criminal record certificate and a copy of your passport or ID card to the cantonal weapons office?

And you must be at least 18 years old,
you must not be subject to a deputyship or a supervision order,
you must not give any cause to assume that you could harm yourself or anyone else with the weapon,
you must not have a criminal record for violent or dangerous offences or repeated felonies or misdemeanours.

And they will check up on all this before they let you have the permit?

Oh the humanity!

Really? Most of this is already the case in the U.S.

Must be 18
Not subject to deputy ship or supervision order
Not give cause to assume self harm or harm of others
Not have record for felonies or domestic misdemeanors

All this is checked before each gun sale.

And look back through some of these post. Where you do nothing but complain of perceived problems, many of which are invented or imagined by you, I have attempted to offer solutions.

You will see I fully support an application process to obtain a gun license. What do you think is required for a CCW?

Who is factually challenged here?

I think you are actually retarded. I give up. I tap out. You are the one child left behind.

I agree with you but, overlooked is one small detail that those like kallend push for. And that is a record of what guns I own

None of their damned business

kallend has also stated more than once in this thread that the NRA had rendered current laws toothless

I will ask him again

Which laws and how did the NRA diminish their effectiveness.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jbscout2002 1]

Amazon

******I am thinking that our one issue voters here who believe Switzerland is a great place to go would never be allowed to immigrate there in the first place.
I also think their heads would explode having to deal with all those European Conservatives.

I am thinking some people would have trouble finding how communist our far right political parties are

They hear.. "Conservative" and get little stiffies.... it is the lack of critical thinking skills

My conservative-ism stops at gun rights. After guns, we have nothing to talk about. I'm a pro choice atheist who believes in free health care and taxing people proportionately based on how much mulla the make. 10% of a $50,000 salary is harsh, but 25% of a $5,000,000 salary doesn't affect the millionaires life so much.

[piisfish 140]

jbscout2002

This is exactly the same in the U.S.

To purchase, you do an application, background check, and show photo ID. Then you can "transport" that gun to the range for target practice, or to the woods to go hunting. State laws vary, but generally, it must be unloaded, in plain view, and the ammo stored separately, such as gun in the car, ammo in trunk.

A CCW requires state and federal background checks, passport photo, finger printing, a CCW class, then some states have additional requirements such as character references and providing a written statement to your local head of law enforcement which may be either the Sheriff or Chief of Police depending on where you live, that explains why you are requesting the CCW.

so what makes the difference between having a country with lots of guns and close to no gun violence, and another country with lots of guns with lots of gun violence ?
How are we different ?
Why is it that in one of the countries people want guns because they have the right to have them, and not in the other one ? Feeling insecure much ?

P.S. By the way I like guns, I enjoy shooting (from 9mm Pistol to 15.5cm Howitzer, and my favorite is Browning M2 .50Cal) but wouldn't want to buy any.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[jbscout2002 1]

piisfish

***
This is exactly the same in the U.S.

To purchase, you do an application, background check, and show photo ID. Then you can "transport" that gun to the range for target practice, or to the woods to go hunting. State laws vary, but generally, it must be unloaded, in plain view, and the ammo stored separately, such as gun in the car, ammo in trunk.

A CCW requires state and federal background checks, passport photo, finger printing, a CCW class, then some states have additional requirements such as character references and providing a written statement to your local head of law enforcement which may be either the Sheriff or Chief of Police depending on where you live, that explains why you are requesting the CCW.

so what makes the difference between having a country with lots of guns and close to no gun violence, and another country with lots of guns with lots of gun violence ?
How are we different ?
Why is it that in one of the countries people want guns because they have the right to have them, and not in the other one ? Feeling insecure much ?

P.S. By the way I like guns, I enjoy shooting (from 9mm Pistol to 15.5cm Howitzer, and my favorite is Browning M2 .50Cal) but wouldn't want to buy any.

Difference is culture.

In rural areas of the U.S. we're guns are a normal part of life, they are used for hunting and sport. Most people I know that have a CCW got more for the convenience factor. With the CCW you can put a pistol in a range bag and go to the range to shoot, but without the CCW, that is illegal. CCW mostly protects my from " accidentally" breaking random arbitrary laws that would lead to fines or the confiscation of my gun.

Where I live in upstate NY, I don't carry a gun. I don't need one. The only crime here is a heroin problem. When I go to Syracuse, I'll put it in the car, but depending on what I'm doing down there, it usually stays in the car.

In these areas it seems to be a lot like Switzerland. In the cities, guns are viewed as evil. People are scared of them. People don't hunt in the cities. You can't target shoot in your back yard in the city. Their only view point of a gun is that it is a death machine. An instrument of war. And for inner city thugs it is a status symbol to carry one. And you prove yourself and gain street-cred by using them.

[jbscout2002 1]

As a side note, I went to Walmart yesterday and glanced at the ammo shelves, not expecting anything like usual, but low and behold, .22 ammo. Full shelf of 555 round boxes of .22 ammo. I was delighted, as my fellow shooters would understand. I bought my maximum allowance of 3 boxes, as did my anti-gun wife. 3330 rounds of fresh new 36 grain hollow points. Oh what a glorious day indeed.

[gowlerk 2,249]

This thread hardly needs gasoline thrown on it, so consider this humour.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[piisfish 140]

that might be a part of the problem :
-you can buy guns & ammo (not the magazine, see what I did there) at Walmart
-you can shoot in your backyard.

and you have explained the nice similarities between our people. Not found WHY in one case some people go nuts with guns. Here I can assure you that MOST gun possessors ( I won't call them owners, as they are only depositary people of government issued weapons) do not care to get a carry permit, and will only transport their weapon from home to the firing range and back.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[jbscout2002 1]

gowlerk

This thread hardly needs gasoline thrown on it, so consider this humour.

Right? Like as one of those face comes strolling through the parking lot with a couple riffles hanging off his shoulder, no one says, "hm, maybe we should question this"

[jbscout2002 1]

piisfish

that might be a part of the problem :
-you can buy guns & ammo (not the magazine, see what I did there) at Walmart
-you can shoot in your backyard.

and you have explained the nice similarities between our people. Not found WHY in one case some people go nuts with guns. Here I can assure you that MOST gun possessors ( I won't call them owners, as they are only depositary people of government issued weapons) do not care to get a carry permit, and will only transport their weapon from home to the firing range and back.

Yeah that can be a problem, not have the magazine at Walmart. They used to have them. Now you have to go next door to Gander Mountain.

[jbscout2002 1]

It is the order of this Court that you shall be remanded to carry with you at all times, and to all places, a potted plant. And that this plant shall be sufficient in its size to adequately replace a cubic volume of oxygen that shall be determined to be equal to, or greater than, that of which you have unjustly embezzled from your fellow man. May God have mercy on your soul. Court is adjourned.

[billvon 3,070]

>I see your point, but point number 2 is dancing with the devil. Stir up enough come scare
>and there will be national gun reform, eve if by executive order.

Well, it's been working for them so far. Not the way I would go - as you say, there's a huge threat of a backlash. But so far so good (for the NRA at least.)


>The Obama grab your guns one, NRA didn't even have to say anything with that.

Yet they did - and launched a campaign to make sure that as many people heard it as possible. That sort of fearmongering translated directly into cash for the NRA. One gun manufacturer even pledged to give the NRA $$ for every gun they sold as a result of this campaign.

===============
Obama Pushing For 'Largest Gun Grab In American History': NRA
July 27, 2015

The Obama administration is pushing to ban Social Security beneficiaries from owning guns if they lack the mental capacity to manage their own disability payments — a move the NRA is calling the “largest gun grab in American history.”
http://nation.foxnews.com/2015/07/28/obama-pushing-largest-gun-grab-american-history-nra
=================
NRA Warns Of Obama’s Backdoor Gun Grab

Catherine Mortensen, NRA spokeswoman states: “We are worried about an end-run around Congress…Barack Obama or a future anti-gun president could use ATT and international norms compliance to rationalize enacting gun control policies through executive actions, especially in the import and export realms,” according to The Blaze.

As of Christmas Eve of this year, the treaty is set to be effective. Regulations within the treaty cover everything from importing and exporting military arms of various kinds to establishing a “national control system, including a national control list”. Anyone remember one of the early chapters in the Communist Manifesto?

Mortensen continues, this treaty is a “very real threat” to the Second Amendment and an “attempt by other countries, including some despotic regimes, to try and infringe on our constitutional rights.” The influence some Democrat party leaders permit the U.N. to assert over public policy is disconcerting. It is as if international approval supersedes the best interest of citizens of our own country.
http://mrconservative.com/2014/11/52578-nra-warns-of-obamas-backdoor-gun-grab/
================