Another mass shooting...

[jbscout2002 1]

kallend

***This guy is a comedic gold mine. Talk about writing itself. I can take a print out of this on the road and fund all my jumps with it.

You do realize that you are commenting on your own post. That is the biggest comedy here.

Yes, in order to avoid cluttering up the DZ.com server the endless pages of quoted quoted quoted quotes of quoted quotes.

[jbscout2002 1]

That is how learning is done teacher. No child left behind. I don't just simply give you the answer, I encourage you to put in the work and draw your own conclusions in pursuit of the answer. Some students just take a little more guiding than others to reach the final answer.

Like they say in the Army. 10 percent of your Soldiers will take up 90 percent of your time.

[jbscout2002 1]

I know I'll never reach all the hippies, but I know that if I can show just one of them the light, that I have done my job. I can now go to be knowing I made the world that much better. I am so proud of you. With that, I bid you farewell.

[jbscout2002 1]

Driver1

This time at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon.

Latest count - 15 dead, 20 wounded, shooter in custody.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fifteen-dead-20-wounded-in-shooting-at-oregon-college-media/ar-AAf0MOh?li=AAa0dzB

One last thing. Little Jonny, if you need someone else to fact check, post numeral uno. I noticed when something fits your agenda, you just silently hope no one notices.

Get em boy. My sharp new butterfly spread your wings, use your new imperial data to set the non believers straight! And do some of that fine fact checking.

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

What percentage is the antisocial whack job verse common street crime?

common street crime is also a problem well defined by the easy access to guns both legally and illegally. stop pretending that common street crime with guns is not a problem.

it is. and it is a gun problem as well. common street criminals did not have such easy access 50 years ago, they used knives and baseball bats and the numbers of deaths were far lower than they are today.

[jbscout2002 1]

tkhayes

Quote

What percentage is the antisocial whack job verse common street crime?

common street crime is also a problem well defined by the easy access to guns both legally and illegally. stop pretending that common street crime with guns is not a problem.

it is. and it is a gun problem as well. common street criminals did not have such easy access 50 years ago, they used knives and baseball bats and the numbers of deaths were far lower than they are today.

I don't disagree with this. While there is no way to estimate numbers of illegal weapons on the streets, I believe that a much higher percentage of gun violence takes place with the use of illegal guns than legal ones.

By illegal, I'm referring to these ghost guns, stolen guns, and guns that have been smuggled across the border.

With that being said, the gun laws for the most part would be effectively thwarting gun violence. Penalties are so harsh hat average joe law abiding citizen won't dare break them.

So if these guns on the streets being used in drive bys and traded on the corner for a chunk of crack are outside of the laws anyways, the refining laws, or changing laws, or adding them won't do anything.

To stop that is like stoping drugs. It's all illegal, but it is big business and hey are constantly changing hands. It would take undercover "stings" or "a war on (illegal) guns" if you will.

[jbscout2002 1]

It would be really interesting to see factual data of gun related homicides, where the gun being used was legally obtained and possessed.

Like if the only law being broken during the incident is the homicide itself. What would he numbers be? There will still be some, people will still want to strive for a number of zero, but what would it be?

But good luck with that study. Gun control advocates don't want to portray numbers that way because it takes he wind out of their sails. Pro gun rights people will skew it the same way.

[mik 2]

jbscout2002

******How was that plagiarism? He never attempted to pass the information off as his own he in his first sentence stated where it came from?

Nope - he cut and pasted a long article from ACRU without giving any credit. The link in his first sentence was to something else altogether and was actually part of the article he plagiarized.

He didn't put the cut/paste job in quotation marks.
He didn't put it in a Quote box.
He didn't put it in italics, another way to suggest it wasn't his own writing.
He made NO reference to its source.
He didn't even say it was from somewhere else.

He just posted it as if it was his own writing.

Finally, and only after being called on it and first denying it, he posted the link .

Apparently YOU didn't bother to read what was posted OR to check your facts either.

I have also not seen one post from you where you offer a single number or statistic with any hint of a reference. I have also not actually seen any contribution to the discussion at all other than to try and say I'm lying.

N

Quote

othing you have said has been quoted and credited to any source, and you have not put together one thought of your own as to what the source of the problem is or opinions on possible solutions to any of it.

Much like my young nephew, the general jist of your responses are nut uh, bull hockey, no it didn't no it didn't, liar liar pants on fire hanging from a telephone wire. (-"liar liar pants on fire hanging from a telephone wire was regurgitated from a children's nursery rhyme. The author of this post makes no attempt to claim credit for this beautiful string of literature"-) italic quote box smiley face simply face.

From the article you quoted...

The countries that have gun control but high death rates are the likes of Brazil and Estonia. Most intelligent people would compare the U.S. to the developed Western countries.

The comparison to russia (murders 4 times the rates of the U.S.) included the period when Russia was transitioning from the Soviet Union and the Mafia were all over the place. Perhaps comparing murder rates to the time America was being colonised and the Indians were being murdered might be more reasonable. Currently Russia has about twice the number of murders as the U.S. does. But Russia is also a country where those who are well connected or have enough money for bribes can literally get away with murder. I would suggest that if all people faced consequences of their crimes in Russia, the murder rate would drop very significantly.


The article is flawed, is selectively picking statistics to support the point of view that lots of guns do not equal more deaths.

***********************************************
I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

[tkhayes 348]

how does a legal gun go from being 'legal' to being 'illegal'. If we stem the flow of legal guns, it will eventually stem the flow of illegal guns.

there is not division of Remingtion, Ruger or Smith and Wesson that I am aware of that is constantly feeding the illegal gun market.

[jbscout2002 1]

mik

*********How was that plagiarism? He never attempted to pass the information off as his own he in his first sentence stated where it came from?

Nope - he cut and pasted a long article from ACRU without giving any credit. The link in his first sentence was to something else altogether and was actually part of the article he plagiarized.

He didn't put the cut/paste job in quotation marks.
He didn't put it in a Quote box.
He didn't put it in italics, another way to suggest it wasn't his own writing.
He made NO reference to its source.
He didn't even say it was from somewhere else.

He just posted it as if it was his own writing.

Finally, and only after being called on it and first denying it, he posted the link .

Apparently YOU didn't bother to read what was posted OR to check your facts either.

I have also not seen one post from you where you offer a single number or statistic with any hint of a reference. I have also not actually seen any contribution to the discussion at all other than to try and say I'm lying.

N

Quote

othing you have said has been quoted and credited to any source, and you have not put together one thought of your own as to what the source of the problem is or opinions on possible solutions to any of it.

Much like my young nephew, the general jist of your responses are nut uh, bull hockey, no it didn't no it didn't, liar liar pants on fire hanging from a telephone wire. (-"liar liar pants on fire hanging from a telephone wire was regurgitated from a children's nursery rhyme. The author of this post makes no attempt to claim credit for this beautiful string of literature"-) italic quote box smiley face simply face.

From the article you quoted...

The countries that have gun control but high death rates are the likes of Brazil and Estonia. Most intelligent people would compare the U.S. to the developed Western countries.

The comparison to russia (murders 4 times the rates of the U.S.) included the period when Russia was transitioning from the Soviet Union and the Mafia were all over the place. Perhaps comparing murder rates to the time America was being colonised and the Indians were being murdered might be more reasonable. Currently Russia has about twice the number of murders as the U.S. does. But Russia is also a country where those who are well connected or have enough money for bribes can literally get away with murder. I would suggest that if all people faced consequences of their crimes in Russia, the murder rate would drop very significantly.


The article is flawed, is selectively picking statistics to support the point of view that lots of guns do not equal more deaths.

We have mob killings in the U.S. also.

There are still Indians being murdered today, both Native Americans and people from India.

What is gun control in Brazil, no more than one gun per hand? Using the honor system to enforce it? Probably not a good example of "low" gun violence

[jbscout2002 1]

tkhayes

how does a legal gun go from being 'legal' to being 'illegal'. If we stem the flow of legal guns, it will eventually stem the flow of illegal guns.

there is not division of Remingtion, Ruger or Smith and Wesson that I am aware of that is constantly feeding the illegal gun market.

There are guns sold in countries all over the world. Sneak one across the Mexican border rather than legally importing it, and it is completely untraceable. It is illegal because there is no record of it, no paper trail, it was never legal to begin with. They will come in even if we have a total gun ban and confiscate all "known" guns in the U.S.

Same applies with a ghost gun. A machineist can carve plastic templates and build an exact replica from scratch. Do this without obtaining a BATF&E document assigning a serial number to that gun, it is a gun that a 14 year old banger is taking to school but doesn't "technically exist". Take every gun out of America and people will make a fortune build these in their basements.

[jbscout2002 1]

tkhayes

how does a legal gun go from being 'legal' to being 'illegal'. If we stem the flow of legal guns, it will eventually stem the flow of illegal guns.

there is not division of Remingtion, Ruger or Smith and Wesson that I am aware of that is constantly feeding the illegal gun market.

Stop all production and sales, ban everything. Successfully stop anything from crossing the border. Close all machine stops. Ban all ammo.

A rough estimate is 80 million Americans owning 300 million guns. Demand total confiscation. How many of the 80 million will keep one or two tucked away or simply not line up to turn them over?

Gonna go door to door and search every house? You don't care about 2nd Amendment, but now you're really letting your rights go. Looking for my guns they are going to find your little bag of weed, your wife's giant jackhammer dildo, your illegal pocket knife, the expired muscle relaxers you were saving just in case your back flared up again. (This is not you personally but you get what I'm saying)

I'm afraid to make a positive change you are going to have to work WITH us and not AGAINST us.

[BartsDaddy 7]

jbscout2002

***how does a legal gun go from being 'legal' to being 'illegal'. If we stem the flow of legal guns, it will eventually stem the flow of illegal guns.

there is not division of Remingtion, Ruger or Smith and Wesson that I am aware of that is constantly feeding the illegal gun market.

There are guns sold in countries all over the world. Sneak one across the Mexican border rather than legally importing it, and it is completely untraceable. It is illegal because there is no record of it, no paper trail, it was never legal to begin with. They will come in even if we have a total gun ban and confiscate all "known" guns in the U.S.

Same applies with a ghost gun. A machineist can carve plastic templates and build an exact replica from scratch. Do this without obtaining a BATF&E document assigning a serial number to that gun, it is a gun that a 14 year old banger is taking to school but doesn't "technically exist". Take every gun out of America and people will make a fortune build these in their basements.
I agree with your point of view. But what has come to comanly be known as a ghost gun thanks to MSM is not necessarily illegal. I have a half dozen in my safe that I made for my own personal use that have no serial number do not require one. And are perfectly legall per ABTFE regulations. Gohst gun is the new boogie man.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[billvon 2,998]

>It would be really interesting to see factual data of gun related homicides,
>where the gun being used was legally obtained and possessed.

Agreed, that would be great. Unfortunately the NRA has been lobbying against collecting such data for decades.

>Gun control advocates don't want to portray numbers that way because it
>takes he wind out of their sails.

Apparently pro-gun people are even more afraid of people having the facts. You have to wonder why.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-nra-kills-gun-violence-research-2013-1

[normiss 801]

To be fair, you are entirely "nuh uh" about any and every idea or suggestion about reducing mass shootings.

[normiss 801]

Yet I think your comprehension might be the inital issue here.
I really don't think there is a Glock for sale.
Comprehension is important.

I still don't understand why you feel he "has problems".

[kallend 2,027]

jbscout2002

***This time at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon.

Latest count - 15 dead, 20 wounded, shooter in custody.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fifteen-dead-20-wounded-in-shooting-at-oregon-college-media/ar-AAf0MOh?li=AAa0dzB

One last thing. Little Jonny, if you need someone else to fact check, post numeral uno. I noticed when something fits your agenda, you just silently hope no one notices.

Get em boy. My sharp new butterfly spread your wings, use your new imperial data to set the non believers straight! And do some of that fine fact checking.

Why are you replying to me on something written by someone else? Confused?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 801]

I think most of the people here tend to post an embedded link, sooo.....
No.

[normiss 801]

Damn John, you're on a roll!
That shit right there is funny!

[kallend 2,027]

jbscout2002

That is how learning is done teacher. No child left behind. I don't just simply give you the answer, I encourage you to put in the work and draw your own conclusions in pursuit of the answer. Some students just take a little more guiding than others to reach the final answer.

Like they say in the Army. 10 percent of your Soldiers will take up 90 percent of your time.

Translation - contrary to your claim, you STILL can't find anything untrue that I "made up" in this thread.

You made the accusation that I "made up" stuff. So back up your accusation.

I provided sources to show that you posted inaccurate information and plagiarized someone else's article. All you do is bluster and prevaricate.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jbscout2002 1]

normiss

To be fair, you are entirely "nuh uh" about any and every idea or suggestion about reducing mass shootings.

Nuh uh. I want to prevent mass shootings. I disagree that the majority of the proposed gun control strategies will fix it.

I believe, in my heart of hearts, due to stigma, lack of understanding, and a focus that is slightly off target are going to, for lack of better words, screw up my gun rights. Gun control advocate think I'm unreasonable and say this is a compromise we can all live with.

So now I can't own a pistol, which sucks, because they are fun to shoot and there great pistol competitions set up that I like to compete in. Then I can have this, then that, then that.

Now I'm out here jumping through hoops, paying extra fees, getting permits, doing whatever so I can own my one allotted musket. So after the damage has been done to me, if we ever realize this was the wrong approach, too bad. Historically, gun laws stack up really slowly, but once they are there, they don't go away. For the most part. I know the Brady bill had an expiration date, but generally

Anywho, after all is said and done, I think the mass shootings are still going to happen. They will happen with the illegal street gun or ghost gun (haven't seen this boogyman gun yet).

[jbscout2002 1]

kallend

******This time at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon.

Latest count - 15 dead, 20 wounded, shooter in custody.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fifteen-dead-20-wounded-in-shooting-at-oregon-college-media/ar-AAf0MOh?li=AAa0dzB

One last thing. Little Jonny, if you need someone else to fact check, post numeral uno. I noticed when something fits your agenda, you just silently hope no one notices.

Get em boy. My sharp new butterfly spread your wings, use your new imperial data to set the non believers straight! And do some of that fine fact checking.

Why are you reply to me on something written by someone else? Confused?

I know you're confused. I've already blown your mind today. Go ahead and take yourself a recess break

[normiss 801]

I'm 100% Second Amendment but I all for some changes.
Like most people, I understand it won't stop all mass shootings.
I cannot imagine we NOT try to reduce senseless tragic killing of innocent people just living life.
Vehemently refusing to work on anything while thorwing in the dramatic and emotioal cries of insanity and entirely unrelated scenarios of impossibility accomplish nothing.

This thread is an amazing example of the problem of even discussing ways to patch the holes.
I now understand why "those people" are called gun "nuts".

[kallend 2,027]

jbscout2002

*********You wanted some data from the FBI..

OK, from the FBI UCR:

www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/6tabledatadecpdf/table-6

Murders, population, and murder rate per 100,000 population:

Chicago: 414 2,720,554 15.3 per 100,000

LA 251 3,878,725 6.5 per 100,000

Jackson MS 50 176,039 28.4 per 100,000

Kansas City MO 99 465514 21.3 per 100,000

Memphis TN 124 652,691 19.0 per 100,000

Detroit 316 699,889 45.2 per 100,000

Baltimore 233 622,671 37.4 per 100,000

So, you see, even according to the FBI there are a bunch of cities with higher murder rates than LA or Chicago.

This is two years old. Next.....

Here you go. 2014 data - the LATEST for which data are available.

Murders per 100,000 population from the FBI www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-6

Chicago 15.1
LA 5.4
Kansas City 16.7
Miami 19.1
Detroit 43.5
Baltimore 33.8
Jackson MS 35.4
Memphis TN 21.4

How does that crow taste?

So from the data you have shown here, one would obviously reach the conclusion that from 2013-2014, the murder rates in Chicago have dropped from 15.3 per 100,000 to 15.1 per 100,000.

This conclusively shows a correlation between the CCW permits being issued in early 2014, and the decline in murders until the point of this data being collected.

See? I told you that you had it in you. Just be honest with yourself, be objective, and present the facts as they are. And now you have proved my 22 page argument to be right.

That was 2014, the last complete year the FBI compiled its data. AS I STATED AND AS YOU REQUESTED.

2015 has seen a surge in gun homicides (and not only in Chicago).
SOURCE: www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/07/09/us-cities-homicide-surge-2015/29879091/

Quote

In the first nine months of 2015, police said the number of murders increased 21 percent, the number of shooting incidents increased 19 percent and the number of shooting victims increased 14 percent, compared to the same time period in 2014.

SOURCE: abc7chicago.com/news/chicago-violence-strategy-to-track-illegal-guns/1011155/



So with over 100,000 CCWs issued, we now see homicides and shootings rising.

Just like I stated previously.

See how easy it is to back up your claims with sources. You should try it sometime.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

jbscout2002

*********This time at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon.

Latest count - 15 dead, 20 wounded, shooter in custody.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fifteen-dead-20-wounded-in-shooting-at-oregon-college-media/ar-AAf0MOh?li=AAa0dzB

One last thing. Little Jonny, if you need someone else to fact check, post numeral uno. I noticed when something fits your agenda, you just silently hope no one notices.

Get em boy. My sharp new butterfly spread your wings, use your new imperial data to set the non believers straight! And do some of that fine fact checking.

Why are you reply to me on something written by someone else? Confused?

I know you're confused. I've already blown your mind today. Go ahead and take yourself a recess break

Translation - contrary to your claim, you STILL can't find anything untrue that I "made up" in this thread.

You made the accusation that I "made up" stuff. So back up your accusation.

I provided sources to show that you posted inaccurate information and plagiarized someone else's article. All you do is bluster and prevaricate.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.