8 yr old girl shot dead by 11yr old boy

[jbscout2002 1]

jakee

Quote

I don't recall seeing these high profile incidents in the media.

Pearl High School - Oct. 1, 1997

Don't feel bad, I can't recall much that was in the media 18 years ago either.

Really? Because we damn sure seem to remember Columbine High School - April 20, 1999.

And of course typical of your crowd, you casually gloss over the 4 incidents that happened LAST YEAR and use the one from 97 as your one stuck point.

Also typical that you would take a long list of examples and cherry pick one from it to misconstrue what is being presented. How about quoting the full list to give it the correct context?

We love the carnage, but don't even hear about these mass shootings that were thwarted by a hero in the right place at the right time with a CCW.

[turtlespeed 219]

jbscout2002

***

Quote

I don't recall seeing these high profile incidents in the media.

Pearl High School - Oct. 1, 1997

Don't feel bad, I can't recall much that was in the media 18 years ago either.

Really? Because we damn sure seem to remember Columbine High School - April 20, 1999.

And of course typical of your crowd, you casually gloss over the 4 incidents that happened LAST YEAR and use the one from 97 as your one stuck point.

Also typical that you would take a long list of examples and cherry pick one from it to misconstrue what is being presented. How about quoting the full list to give it the correct context?

We love the carnage, but don't even hear about these mass shootings that were thwarted by a hero in the right place at the right time with a CCW.

It lessens the potency of their emotionally dependent argument.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

Really? Because we damn sure seem to remember Columbine High School - April 20, 1999.

And of course typical of your crowd, you casually gloss over the 4 incidents that happened LAST YEAR and use the one from 97 as your one stuck point.

How many people died at Columbine? How many people died in all of your examples put together? That's the difference between what's newsworthy and what isn't. Face it bro, in the US of A 1 or 2 people being shot is only going to make the news if there are other much more interesting factors involved.

Quote

Also typical that you would take a long list of examples and cherry pick one from it to misconstrue what is being presented. How about quoting the full list to give it the correct context?

The context being that there are normal people being murdered with firearms all the time that you never hear about?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jbscout2002 1]

Quote

How many people died at Columbine? How many people died in all of your examples put together? That's the difference between what's newsworthy and what isn't. Face it bro, in the US of A 1 or 2 people being shot is only going to make the news if there are other much more interesting factors involved.

My point exactly. How many people's lives were SAVED in the cases I highlighted? If 100 lives are saved by an armed citizen, but 1 life is taken by an armed murderer, we quietly brush off the good and make a big spectacle out of the bad.

Blood sells, then follow up stories over the shooters background, then stories on the victim, then televised debated over gun laws, stirred up emotions, anti gun propaganda, good TV ratings, good filler news when they have nothing else to talk about.

[turtlespeed 219]

jbscout2002

Quote

How many people died at Columbine? How many people died in all of your examples put together? That's the difference between what's newsworthy and what isn't. Face it bro, in the US of A 1 or 2 people being shot is only going to make the news if there are other much more interesting factors involved.

My point exactly. How many people's lives were SAVED in the cases I highlighted? If 100 lives are saved by an armed citizen, but 1 life is taken by an armed murderer, we quietly brush off the good and make a big spectacle out of the bad.

Blood sells, then follow up stories over the shooters background, then stories on the victim, then televised debated over gun laws, stirred up emotions, anti gun propaganda, good TV ratings, good filler news when they have nothing else to talk about.

And the left gets to participate in YET more drama.
It makes them happy, wether or not they want to admit it or not.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jbscout2002 1]

jakee

Quote

In 2009, twelve years after the Firearms Act of 1997 was passed, Daily Mail Online reported that Britain was “the most violent country in Europe.” They also reported that Britain’s home figures showed “the UK [had] a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and South Africa.”

Yeah, the problem is that's bollocks, and it always was. it comes down to classification of a 'violent' offence. In the UK that covers an enormous range of incredibly petty situations that the US and SA (and many others) do not classify in the same way.

The U.K. measures crime using two different processes:

British Crime Survey (BCS): The Home Office conducts surveys of the population to determine how often subjects have been affected by criminal activity. Data is projected to reflect the entire population.

Police reporting: Crimes are reported to the police and nationwide, census-level statistics are summarized.

The BCS has been reporting a declining crime rate in the UK while police reporting has shown an increase. The BCS has routinely been criticized because it under reports crime due to the following factors:
-Murdered and imprisoned people do not answer surveys
-Some crimes are not surveyed when victims are below age 16
-Crime against institutions (bank robbery, etc.) are not included
-Crimes are recorded at final disposition (conviction/acquittal), leaving many crimes completely unreported 4

These deficiencies are so significant that even the British government does not believe the accuracy of the BCS.

“[T]he BCS did not record ‘various categories of violent crime’, including murder and rape, retail crime, drug-taking, or offences in which the victims were aged below 16. The most reliable measure of crime is that which is reported to the police. We’re facing over a million violent crimes a year for the first time in history.”

Gun control groups tend to cite the BCS reports because it supports their narrative that Britain’s gun control laws lower crime. Criminologists tend to use the reporting system because it more closely matches the FBI Uniform Crime Statistics used in the United States.

One curious tidbit: Murder rates initially appear to decline after 2002/2003. This is chiefly due to the scores of killings attributed to serial killer, Dr. Harold Frederick Shipman, which were booked in 2002/03 and did not recur in 2003/04.

http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/miscellaneous-gun-control-information/

[jbscout2002 1]

In America, there are an estimated 250-280 million firearms (latest estimates are 300 million). Out of these, it is of course impossible to tell how many are illegal weapons, as the very nature of a weapon being illegal would preclude its registration to the current owner or wielder.

Another study showed that five out of six gun-possessing felons did not purchase a handgun or otherwise get one through legal means, but instead procured an illegal weapon through the secondary market, or by theft.

The information of this study strongly supports the fact that handguns used by criminals are most often stolen or traded between each other, and therefore become nigh impossible to track in any meaningful fashion. All of these would be deemed illegal weapons.

According to a study conducted in 1997, which admittedly could be out of date but is one of the most recently conducted studies of this comprehensive nature , only 15% of firearms possessed by Federal inmates were obtained through a retail store. The largest portion of illegal weapons were given to the inmates by a family member or a friend, with the next largest portion having been given to the inmates by a drug dealer.

The bottom line of most of this information is quite clear: the firearms being used in crimes are overwhelmingly illegal weapons, and unfortunately, the government is unable to track illegal weapons because of their illegal, unregistered status.

www.gun.laws.com

With the info above, let me throw you a hypothetical. Let's say in 2 years from now, your crowd has gotten all the gun control you could ever ask for passed into law.

-Mental health assessments on everyone in the country
-Assault weapons banned
-High capacity magazines banned
-Number of firearms one per person limited
-Ammount of ammo per person limited
-All semi automatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns banned
-All handgun ownership requires a license
-All purchases require a top secret clearance investigation by the NSA
-12 month waiting period on all firearms
-Quarterly BATFE random inspections of your guns, ammo, and storage

It is a liberal dream land, a peaceful and peace-loving haven of tranquility.

Now please tell me, in this perfect world of yours, what you think the trends in crime would be, considering most crime is committed with illegal firearms, and that the 300 million guns already in the population could only be identified and tracked if the owners of those firearms volunteer hat info to the government.

Or if you would rather just deflect the question or change the subject, I suppose you can tell us all about how the world is flat or whatever else you choose to run with in spite of all evidence pointing to the contrary.

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

My point exactly. How many people's lives were SAVED in the cases I highlighted? If 100 lives are saved by an armed citizen, but 1 life is taken by an armed murderer, we quietly brush off the good and make a big spectacle out of the bad.

Well, no. No-one makes a spectacle over one life being taken by an armed murderer, unless there is something else to make it more interesting, topical or unique. Case in point, your own examples - in some of them one or more people were murdered (aside from the gunmen) and you still didn't hear about it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

And the left gets to participate in YET more drama.
It makes them happy, wether or not they want to admit it or not.

Like the right and the threat of Islamic terrorism? It's practically a non-issue yet raging against it makes them wetter than a teenage girl at a Justin Bieber concert.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Anvilbrother 0]

jakee

Quote

And the left gets to participate in YET more drama.
It makes them happy, wether or not they want to admit it or not.

Like the right and the threat of Islamic terrorism? It's practically a non-issue yet raging against it makes them wetter than a teenage girl at a Justin Bieber concert.

Something you think about often?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

The U.K. measures crime using two different processes:

And how does any of that relate to your previous source being complete bollocks?

Yet again, your ability to skip from argument to argument while ignoring anything you've previously said that was shown to be nonsense is very impressive.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

Anvilbrother

Something you think about often?

Terrorism, Justin Bieber, or right wingers furiously masturbating over photos of a dead Bin Laden?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jbscout2002 1]

jakee

Quote

The U.K. measures crime using two different processes:

And how does any of that relate to your previous source being complete bollocks?

Yet again, your ability to skip from argument to argument while ignoring anything you've previously said that was shown to be nonsense is very impressive.

And you took the easy one, deflection. Big surprise.

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

Liberal anti gunners...

What are conservative anti gunners about? Because there are a bunch of them as well....

[jakee 1,489]

jbscout2002

***

Quote

The U.K. measures crime using two different processes:

And how does any of that relate to your previous source being complete bollocks?

Yet again, your ability to skip from argument to argument while ignoring anything you've previously said that was shown to be nonsense is very impressive.

And you took the easy one, deflection. Big surprise.

Like the way you took the easy out of quoting my post yet ignoring it completely and starting a brand new topic? How is that not deflection? Why do you expect me to directly answer every aspect of your posts when your replies to mine aren't even on the same topic?

In fact, I don't even know how you expected me to reply to your post at all. Since it was entirely composed of a non-sequitur cut and paste with none of your own words for context I honestly have no idea what your point even was. What part of that post, which relates to our ongoing discussion, did you want me to reply to anyway?

BTW, I thought you said you were going to shut up for a whie and go and learn stats. What happened with that?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jbscout2002 1]

jakee

******

Quote

The U.K. measures crime using two different processes:

And how does any of that relate to your previous source being complete bollocks?

Yet again, your ability to skip from argument to argument while ignoring anything you've previously said that was shown to be nonsense is very impressive.

And you took the easy one, deflection. Big surprise.

Like the way you took the easy out of quoting my post yet ignoring it completely and starting a brand new topic? How is that not deflection? Why do you expect me to directly answer every aspect of your posts when your replies to mine aren't even on the same topic?

In fact, I don't even know how you expected me to reply to your post at all. Since it was entirely composed of a non-sequitur cut and paste with none of your own words for context I honestly have no idea what your point even was. What part of that post, which relates to our ongoing discussion, did you want me to reply to anyway?

BTW, I thought you said you were going to shut up for a whie and go and learn stats. What happened with that?

Providing you with the info on how your country surveys crime, which you called into question on your countries newspaper article, was a direct answer to your question.

The answer being that I have consistently proved that it is only you who is bollocks. While I use credible info and link sources, you simply disagree with your own misguided opinion.

Researching stats took about a coupl hours,mad it is already out there, you just have to dig a little deeper because the anti gunners tried to burry it.

- Oh, and my hypothetical questioning method was to point out that people of your belief set, claim that:
1. There is an escallating murder problem in this country
2. The crime in this country is a DIRECT result of the guns in this country
3. Some magical new laws will fix this problem

All available data shows:
1. Murder rates have been decreasing for the last 20 years
2. Guns are used several times more often to stop or deter a crime than they are to commit a crime
3. None of the laws proposed in the last 10 years would have stopped any of the latest high profile incidents, and most gun crime is committed with guns that are already in violation of the law

In light of this evidence you admittedly just flat out don't care. You can offer no proposal to affect crime or murder rates. You just cherry pick numbers and twist the facts.

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

Providing you with the info on how your country surveys crime, which you called into question on your countries newspaper article, was a direct answer to your question.

Ok, so which bit of it directly addressed the differences in the offences which are included under the 'violent crime' umbrella between the UK, the USA and SA? Because I've got to be honest, I didn't notice that bit at all. Please, do feel free to point it out to me and prove that I'm just being obtuse

Quote

The answer being that I have consistently proved that it is only you who is bollocks. While I use credible info and link sources, you simply disagree with your own misguided opinion.

The only possible answer here is LOL.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jbscout2002 1]

jakee

Quote

Providing you with the info on how your country surveys crime, which you called into question on your countries newspaper article, was a direct answer to your question.

Ok, so which bit of it directly addressed the differences in the offences which are included under the 'violent crime' umbrella between the UK, the USA and SA? Because I've got to be honest, I didn't notice that bit at all. Please, do feel free to point it out to me and prove that I'm just being obtuse

Quote

The answer being that I have consistently proved that it is only you who is bollocks. While I use credible info and link sources, you simply disagree with your own misguided opinion.

The only possible answer here is LOL.

Quote

The U.K. measures crime using two different processes:

British Crime Survey (BCS): The Home Office conducts surveys of the population to determine how often subjects have been affected by criminal activity. Data is projected to reflect the entire population.

Police reporting: Crimes are reported to the police and nationwide, census-level statistics are summarized.

The BCS has been reporting a declining crime rate in the UK while police reporting has shown an increase. The BCS has routinely been criticized because it under reports crime due to the following factors:
-Murdered and imprisoned people do not answer surveys
-Some crimes are not surveyed when victims are below age 16
-Crime against institutions (bank robbery, etc.) are not included
-Crimes are recorded at final disposition (conviction/acquittal), leaving many crimes completely unreported 4

These deficiencies are so significant that even the British government does not believe the accuracy of the BCS.

“[T]he BCS did not record ‘various categories of violent crime’, including murder and rape, retail crime, drug-taking, or offences in which the victims were aged below 16. The most reliable measure of crime is that which is reported to the police. We’re facing over a million violent crimes a year for the first time in history.”

Gun control groups tend to cite the BCS reports because it supports their narrative that Britain’s gun control laws lower crime. Criminologists tend to use the reporting system because it more closely matches the FBI Uniform Crime Statistics used in the United States.

One curious tidbit: Murder rates initially appear to decline after 2002/2003. This is chiefly due to the scores of killings attributed to serial killer, Dr. Harold Frederick Shipman, which were booked in 2002/03 and did not recur in 2003/04.

[mpohl 1]

Gotta love this place.
It gets nuttier by the day around here.

Now every citizen can be LE, judge, jury, and executioner.
All wrapped into one un-educated, god-loving package.


"[...]A Michigan woman was charged Tuesday with reckless use of a handgun after firing at a vehicle carrying shoplifters fleeing a Home Depot.

Instead of a “misguided attempt” to stop the vehicle using her gun, the woman, Tatiana Duva-Rodriguez, 46, of Clarkston, should have tried to take a picture of the license plate, the Oakland County prosecutor said.

“If this is proven, I find it very disturbing that someone would take out their gun in a busy parking lot and shoot at the tires of a passing car,” said the prosecutor, Jessica R. Cooper. “Once fired, the bullet could have easily ricocheted or fragmented and injured or killed someone else.”

The episode unfolded last week, the police said, when a man at a Home Depot in Auburn Hills, a suburb of Detroit, loaded a shopping cart with about $1,100 in merchandise, including power tools, a welder and a nail gun. He wheeled the cart past the cash registers and out the door, sprinting through the parking lot to a driver in a waiting sport utility vehicle, where the goods were loaded. The vehicle then sped off.

A Home Depot employee gave chase, yelling “stop” to no avail. And then another sound rang out: gunfire.

According to the police, Ms. Duva-Rodriguez, who is licensed to carry a concealed weapon, fired several shots from her handgun at the fleeing S.U.V. While the S.U.V. got away, a 9-millimeter bullet flattened a rear tire. No one was injured, and there was no apparent damage to other cars or property, a police spokeswoman, Lt. Jill McDonnell, said.[...]"

[jbscout2002 1]

mpohl

According to the police, Ms. Duva-Rodriguez, who is licensed to carry a concealed weapon, fired several shots from her handgun at the fleeing S.U.V. While the S.U.V. got away, a 9-millimeter bullet flattened a rear tire. No one was injured, and there was no apparent damage to other cars or property, a police spokeswoman, Lt. Jill McDonnell, said.[...]"

Yeah it sounds crazy, but when you eliminate the "what if" game and only state the final outcome.....

That woman had some serious skillz to take out the tire on a fleeing vehicle without any collateral damage.

[billvon 2,989]

>That woman had some serious skillz to take out the tire on a fleeing vehicle
>without any collateral damage.

Yes, that's the lesson here.

[mpohl 1]

Actually you and others are lacking in the logical department.

Corollary: The SUV got away.

An SUV w/ a blown out tire doesn't drive very far. Maybe the tire she hit was not that of the SUV???? Just maybe. "It flattened a rear tire."

Just as it could have flattened any innocent shopper.

And you don't even carry, I presume. Or BV; further below.
So, you guys are the smart ones. It is the stupid ones that have all the guns.
Scary!!!!!!!!

jbscout2002

***
According to the police, Ms. Duva-Rodriguez, who is licensed to carry a concealed weapon, fired several shots from her handgun at the fleeing S.U.V. While the S.U.V. got away, a 9-millimeter bullet flattened a rear tire. No one was injured, and there was no apparent damage to other cars or property, a police spokeswoman, Lt. Jill McDonnell, said.[...]"

Yeah it sounds crazy, but when you eliminate the "what if" game and only state the final outcome.....

That woman had some serious skillz to take out the tire on a fleeing vehicle without any collateral damage.

[Anvilbrother 0]

You are making a great start after your layoff. What is your master plan for the U.S. to fix this gun issue? Or do you even care being on another continent and all.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[mpohl 1]

Why, as a devoted American citizen would I care to be on another continent? I love my country!
And I care about my fellow Americans.

If you feel restricted in the "land-of-free", maybe it is time to move on? Somalia comes to mind.

Point is.
My safety trumps your liberty. 24/7.

Do we understand each other?
Perfectly well!!??

Anvilbrother

You are making a great start after your layoff. What is your master plan for the U.S. to fix this gun issue? Or do you even care being on another continent and all.

[jbscout2002 1]

mpohl

Why, as a devoted American citizen would I care to be on another continent? I love my country!
And I care about my fellow Americans.

If you feel restricted in the "land-of-free", maybe it is time to move on? Somalia comes to mind.

Quote

RE:
From: mpohl
Date Sent:
Oct 2, 2015, 4:54 PM

I am an American citizen. Just as you are.
But I am not only an American citizen. I am German, also.

I have nothing but disdain for the USeless Army. And American foreign politics.

Do you have a multiple personality disorder or something?