kallend 2,108 #1 November 17, 2015 Can anyone point to any successes? Korea: Kim-Jung-Eun Iran (1953): still paying the price of that one. Vietnam: nope Afghanistan: nope Iraq: nope Libya: nope Doing the same thing over an over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. (But the military industrial complex has come out way ahead).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ibx 2 #2 November 17, 2015 Europe 1945 Panama 1989 Bosnia 1996 Then there where some semi-successful humanitarian missions. Can't think of any others where a generally positive outcome was achieved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #3 November 17, 2015 kallendCan anyone point to any successes? Korea: Kim-Jung-Eun Iran (1953): still paying the price of that one. Vietnam: nope Afghanistan: nope Iraq: nope Libya: nope Doing the same thing over an over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. (But the military industrial complex has come out way ahead). The Washington cartel and the arms merchants are partners in control.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,253 #4 November 17, 2015 kallendCan anyone point to any successes? Korea: Kim-Jung-Eun Iran (1953): still paying the price of that one. Vietnam: nope Afghanistan: nope Iraq: nope Libya: nope Doing the same thing over an over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. (But the military industrial complex has come out way ahead). Well.... The French did mess in the American Revolution. America doesn't call that a "civil war", but it was one none the less. Most people consider that one successful. Although not for the formerly ruling British.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #5 November 17, 2015 ibxEurope 1945 Panama 1989 Bosnia 1996 Then there where some semi-successful humanitarian missions. Can't think of any others where a generally positive outcome was achieved. Europe 1945 wasn't a civil war. It was part of a declared war between nations. Panama - wasn't a war. We just snatched a leader we didn't like. Bosnia - UNPROFOR was not a predominantly US operation.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
melch 1 #6 November 17, 2015 Afghanistan was hardly a civil war. Last time I checked that was the one an only time an Article 5 response was invoked in the history of NATO. Not arguing the result, just pointing out the fact that it was/is not a civil war. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 379 #7 November 17, 2015 Iran involved a CIA-organized and executed coup d'etat (Operation Ajax), not a civil war. Not that that makes the outcome any less messed up. Let's put this another way: are there any examples where our involvement in a military conflict has resulted in a stable democratic government (or constitutional monarchy with a figurehead monarch) replacing a dictatorship or actual monarchy? In other words a "successful" regime change? Japan (post WWII) is one example. Are there others? It seems to me regime change has a very poor track record, especially in the Middle East. It's very difficult to impose democracy on a society that has no history of democratic institutions. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,546 #8 November 18, 2015 I can't think of any, I'm just going to comment on how much families usually appreciate having outsiders come in to settle their internal conflicts -- even when those conflicts extend to the outside world. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #9 November 18, 2015 melchAfghanistan was hardly a civil war. Last time I checked that was the one an only time an Article 5 response was invoked in the history of NATO. Not arguing the result, just pointing out the fact that it was/is not a civil war. The Taliban was in continuous armed struggle against local militias right up until the 2001 US led invasion.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #10 November 18, 2015 kallend***Afghanistan was hardly a civil war. Last time I checked that was the one an only time an Article 5 response was invoked in the history of NATO. Not arguing the result, just pointing out the fact that it was/is not a civil war. The Taliban was in continuous armed struggle against local militias right up until the 2001 US led invasion. The Northern Alliance, led by Masood, was a lot more than a "local militia.""There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #11 November 18, 2015 kallend***Europe 1945 Panama 1989 Bosnia 1996 Then there where some semi-successful humanitarian missions. Can't think of any others where a generally positive outcome was achieved. Europe 1945 wasn't a civil war. It was part of a declared war between nations. Panama - wasn't a war. We just snatched a leader we didn't like. Bosnia - UNPROFOR was not a predominantly US operation. Who is "we"? Did England do much in Panama?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #12 November 18, 2015 turtlespeed******Europe 1945 Panama 1989 Bosnia 1996 Then there where some semi-successful humanitarian missions. Can't think of any others where a generally positive outcome was achieved. Europe 1945 wasn't a civil war. It was part of a declared war between nations. Panama - wasn't a war. We just snatched a leader we didn't like. Bosnia - UNPROFOR was not a predominantly US operation. Who is "we"? Did England do much in Panama? The USA invaded Panama 26 years ago. Nice small country, easy pickings.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,253 #13 November 19, 2015 kallend*********Europe 1945 Panama 1989 Bosnia 1996 Then there where some semi-successful humanitarian missions. Can't think of any others where a generally positive outcome was achieved. Europe 1945 wasn't a civil war. It was part of a declared war between nations. Panama - wasn't a war. We just snatched a leader we didn't like. Bosnia - UNPROFOR was not a predominantly US operation. Who is "we"? Did England do much in Panama? The USA invaded Panama 26 years ago. Nice small country, easy pickings. Isn't Noriega still in a US federal prison somewhere? Or did he die in one? That was back when men were men. And the USA really knew how to do a proper regime change.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #14 November 19, 2015 >The USA invaded Panama 26 years ago. Nice small country, easy pickings. Useful, too! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #15 November 20, 2015 gowlerk************Europe 1945 Panama 1989 Bosnia 1996 Then there where some semi-successful humanitarian missions. Can't think of any others where a generally positive outcome was achieved. Europe 1945 wasn't a civil war. It was part of a declared war between nations. Panama - wasn't a war. We just snatched a leader we didn't like. Bosnia - UNPROFOR was not a predominantly US operation. Who is "we"? Did England do much in Panama? The USA invaded Panama 26 years ago. Nice small country, easy pickings. Isn't Noriega still in a US federal prison somewhere? Or did he die in one? That was back when men were men. And the USA really knew how to do a proper regime change. Manny is alive and well in a Panamanian prison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #16 December 5, 2015 So we conduct thousands of bombing raids (over 16,000 targets attacked according to CENTCOM) in someone else's civil war on a different continent, and then get all bent out of shape when sympathizers of the people we're bombing go on a rampage over here. Did we think they'd send us a bouquet of roses?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
